Paul Johnson visiting the Ravens today

[ncjacket79]

I'm pretty sure I've seen Big Ben run an option play or 2 in goal line situations. Maybe on a 2-pt play during that playoff run a decade ago?

You may have seen the pitch or keep part of the option but doubt you saw the 3o.

 

[takethepoints]

There aren't many NFL guys who even want to cut, outside of smallish RBs facing a blitzing LB. It's known as 'dirty football' for good reason and I suspect was probably used against our OL recruiting during PJ's tenure. At the end of the day, these guys are all co-workers (with a few exceptions) and aren't interested in diving at knees unless absolutely necessary (again, see RB picking up blitz)

The San Francisco 49ers, Houston Oilers, Denver Broncos, and Atlanta Falcons all say hello. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_blocking

Needless to say, the colleges have been using this technique for eons.

 

[Pointer]

no one's running the TO in the NFL. From fears of high-paid QBs getting injured to faster Defense shutting off the corners to the study that shows that the new NFL No-Cut-Block-Rule likely does result in fewer knee injuries to defenders...owners across the NFL won't let their OCs run any more than a few plays/game. See "Wildcat formation", another formation/play that got *****-slapped into gimmick status by NFL defenses. NFL Defenses would make a mockery out of the TO. NFL secondaries tackle better than 19-20 yr olds, NFL LBs are faster, NFL D-Linemen are faster, etc. Plus NFL WRs aren't getting paid to dive at knees nor do they want to do that too often.

Think of the drop-back NFL QBs. Brady, Ryan, Big Ben, et all ain't gonna be runnin' the TO! Let it go. It's over.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5954335/

Right because only the defense will have the same speed and talent right? Both sides of the ball have the same elite NFL talent. That had always been the dumbest reason why the TO wouldn't work in the NFL. Further, look at the year North Carolina (Butch Davis era) had double digits players on defense alone at the NFL combine, Tech won that game (put like 30 points on them if I remember correctly). That being our college talent vs their future NFL talent. If that yahoo mbob wasnt hired, Paul could have enjoyed more support he had the last couple of years, instead of having to watch every body else surpass us in program funding. Hope CGC can continue to get this level of support during his tenure and I hope he decides to bring the TO back.

 

[Pointer]

I’m not anti-cut block but I fail to see how getting hit below the waist more would not result in more lower body injuries.

Look no further than the last 10 years of Georgia tech football. Both our defenders at practice and all our opponents. And btw, if you're so adamant about that, then let's also can tackling below the waist too... Better yet, let's just play flag football, then everyone will be ok.

 

[herb]

Look no further than the last 10 years of Georgia tech football. Both our defenders at practice and all our opponents. And btw, if you're so adamant about that, then let's also can tackling below the waist too... Better yet, let's just play flag football, then everyone will be ok.

It’s going that way.

 

[wrmathis]

also, cut blocks arent a prerequisite of an option offense. you can still drive block and not flop on the ground to cut block and be successful running the option

 

[jgtengineer]

This is hilarious. First off if cut blocks are not diving at knees you do that you miss. Its targetting the between the hip and the thigh. Which is the same target we had to drive block before they allowed legal holding. Shaq mason has cut in open field to spring patriots backs. The same thing with the falcons own version of a rocket toss we rode with Freeman our Superbowl year.

If you think the nfl doesnt cut you havent watched a lot of nfl line play.

As to runni g the option. Our best play last year was a zone lead option off a zone drive line action. The reason we cut as much as we did was due to talent disparity. You take that away drive and man up blocking becomes the norm.

 

[jgtengineer]

I’m not anti-cut block but I fail to see how getting hit below the waist more would not result in more lower body injuries.

No more than tackling.

 

[RickStromFan]

The San Francisco 49ers, Houston Oilers, Denver Broncos, and Atlanta Falcons all say hello. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_blocking

Needless to say, the colleges have been using this technique for eons.

not sure where I said "it's not used at all"? No one is gonna be running the mighty TO in the NFL though, no matter how many people post to the contrary. At best, it'd be a single-play gimmick, like that stupid Wildcat a few years ago that got quickly *****-slapped by NFL defenses. It's too easy to complete passes in the NFL to risk injury to high paid QBs the way the TO would. And as our own dwindling attendance showed, ultimately people don't want to pay money to watch it as a primary offensive scheme. It can still be seen at West Point and Annapolis but for the rest of football, the TO is dead.

 

[Milwaukee]

This is hilarious. First off if cut blocks are not diving at knees you do that you miss. Its targetting the between the hip and the thigh. Which is the same target we had to drive block before they allowed legal holding. Shaq mason has cut in open field to spring patriots backs. The same thing with the falcons own version of a rocket toss we rode with Freeman our Superbowl year.

If you think the nfl doesnt cut you havent watched a lot of nfl line play.

As to runni g the option. Our best play last year was a zone lead option off a zone drive line action. The reason we cut as much as we did was due to talent disparity. You take that away drive and man up blocking becomes the norm.

You're technically correct but when I used to cut block on the edge I was an ankle biter, not even close to coming as high as the knees or thighs and it was extremely effective. It's just all about timing; show like you're coming at the waist and then scoop at the last half second. Nothing dirty about it, just football.

Fun fact now that I'm thinking about some old high school fb days and injury frequency:

Senior year I missed 8 games after I disclocated/sprained my ankle in a Thursday walk through. Yes...a friggin Thursday walk through with only shells. Injuries are freak like that.

 

[AE 87]

not sure where I said "it's not used at all"? No one is gonna be running the mighty TO in the NFL though, no matter how many people post to the contrary. At best, it'd be a single-play gimmick, like that stupid Wildcat a few years ago that got quickly *****-slapped by NFL defenses. It's too easy to complete passes in the NFL to risk injury to high paid QBs the way the TO would. And as our own dwindling attendance showed, ultimately people don't want to pay money to watch it as a primary offensive scheme. It can still be seen at West Point and Annapolis but for the rest of football, the TO is dead.

I think this is closest to truth: it's not seen as "cool"

Talk of speed, blocking, etc is nonsense. The offense would work, but if players don't want it, NFL Players have the power to say No.

 

[Pointer]

not sure where I said "it's not used at all"? No one is gonna be running the mighty TO in the NFL though, no matter how many people post to the contrary. At best, it'd be a single-play gimmick, like that stupid Wildcat a few years ago that got quickly *****-slapped by NFL defenses. It's too easy to complete passes in the NFL to risk injury to high paid QBs the way the TO would. And as our own dwindling attendance showed, ultimately people don't want to pay money to watch it as a primary offensive scheme. It can still be seen at West Point and Annapolis but for the rest of football, the TO is dead.

I think you mean over paid QB'S. The reason the Patriots have been so good for so long is because of the discount they are getting from Tom Brady. That's how they can afford to pay for stars and depth at the same time. Look what's happening at Green Bay. AR got the big pay day, but they can't pay a good target or complementing running game. The TO negates all these issues. You're just too caught up in the status quo to see progress. Everything happens in cycles. The option is coming back!

 

[takethepoints]

not sure where I said "it's not used at all"? No one is gonna be running the mighty TO in the NFL though, no matter how many people post to the contrary. At best, it'd be a single-play gimmick, like that stupid Wildcat a few years ago that got quickly *****-slapped by NFL defenses. It's too easy to complete passes in the NFL to risk injury to high paid QBs the way the TO would. And as our own dwindling attendance showed, ultimately people don't want to pay money to watch it as a primary offensive scheme. It can still be seen at West Point and Annapolis but for the rest of football, the TO is dead.

You know, I was sort of expecting this.

Your post was about cut blocking and how the pros don't do it because it's "dirty football" and the pros are all co-workers or something like that. Mine was to show that, not to put too fine a point on it, that you didn't know what you were talking about. Many pro programs have and still do use general cut blocking schemes and pro offense players do what their OC tells them to or they don't play. All this kumbaya stuff is not even close to how pro teams work.

So what answer can you give? Why, you move the goalposts, of course!

Stop it. There's no harm in saying that you are wrong; I've done it many times here. You can do it too. I swear it doesn't hurt a bit.

 

[TampaGT]

I know nobody would use the spread option in the NFL, but I think it would work. If you view it from a GM and salary cap level. Your highest paid players on O are PP QB, LT, and WR. Because you are looking for and value different trait at QB you will save a ton on QB. Since you aren’t passing 60% of the time you will save $ on LT and WR. There are many very good RB coming out of college that go late in the draft. Everyone talks about the punishment the QB will take, because there isn’t a ton $ on a PP Qb you can have better backup Qb and even rotate them a little more during the season. You don’t have to worry about practice time limits, you can have multiple Qb run with the 1’s. Also, since most of the d in the league are built to stop the passing game you have an advantage by being a power running team. Also, some nfl CB that arent willing to take a big roll in the running game. Now what I think is the kicker in this would be you could use the $ saved on the O as well as top draft picks to load up on D. Assuming you had a good DC and an eye for d talent in the draft and FA. You could have crushing D and a O that could eat up the clock, give your D long rest, wear out the opp. D. Let’s take CPJ and his time at GT out for a second and just look at Army and Navy. You would be able to narrow the talent gap that those team currently face. You give Army a couple of the top 20 RB in college FB that would be a scary O. Like I said I know nobody would do it, but in General I think there are advantages to doing different things than everyone else. You aren’t going to out Clemson, Clemson because if try being and doing like everyone else, you have to rely On just having better talent.

 

[Pointer]

......Defenses would make a mockery out of the TO. NFL secondaries tackle better than 19-20 yr olds, NFL LBs are faster, NFL D-Linemen are faster, etc. Plus NFL WRs aren't getting paid to dive at knees nor do they want to do that too often.

Think of the drop-back NFL QBs. Brady, Ryan, Big Ben, et all ain't gonna be runnin' the TO! Let it go. It's over.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5954335/

Btw, I rarely if ever, saw our WR cut blocking. This shows me that you just didn't watch the last decade of football at GT. I understand being excited about something new, and I'm really looking forward to the new defense. I just wish we could have kept the strength (the TO offense) of the team and made the weakness (previous defense) another strength.

 

[knoxjacket]

No more than tackling.

And getting tackled low causes more lower extremity injuries than getting tackled at the waist.

I’m not arguing it should be banned. I’m just pointing out how silly it is to argue getting hit below the waist doesn’t cause more injuries below the waist.

It’s like arguing getting punched in the face doesn’t cause more broken noses than getting punched in the stomach.

 

[knoxjacket]

Everyone here is missing the most obvious reason it wouldn’t work. CPJ had the most success against teams with limited exposure to the system. Look at his record vs rotating Atlantic opponents vs Coastal opponents. Look at his record/offensive production in bowls.

NFL team have giant staffs analyzing every little detail of every opponent. They are allowed more practice than is allowed at the college level. You play divisional opponents twice.

The element of surprise is out the window.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Everyone here is missing the most obvious reason it wouldn’t work. CPJ had the most success against teams with limited exposure to the system. Look at his record vs rotating Atlantic opponents vs Coastal opponents. Look at his record/offensive production in bowls.

NFL team have giant staffs analyzing every little detail of every opponent. They are allowed more practice than is allowed at the college level. You play divisional opponents twice.

The element of surprise is out the window.

It’s the old is it:
A. The Jimmies & the Joes
B The X’s & the O’s

I’ll argue we had a superior scheme that could be thwarted by a wide disparity in talent. It would be cool if we could wipe out the disparity in talent, let the schemes go head to head and see what happens. We had good enough talent at GT to compete under CPJ, but not enough to compete with the elites. Because the talent level was what it was you also had the normal game to game variation where we’d either upset someone we had no business beating or vice versa. Take the pro/anti-CPJ bias out of it because you either liked him or he pissed in your Wheaties and that’s our last decade of football but the record speaks for itself.

The interesting thing I find about the anti-CPJ crowd is they hated him from the minute he was announced. Usually a coach gets to establish a record, but I can’t think of another coach in GT history going back decades that couldn;t wait to run him off from the onset.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Everyone here is missing the most obvious reason it wouldn’t work. CPJ had the most success against teams with limited exposure to the system. Look at his record vs rotating Atlantic opponents vs Coastal opponents. Look at his record/offensive production in bowls.

NFL team have giant staffs analyzing every little detail of every opponent. They are allowed more practice than is allowed at the college level. You play divisional opponents twice.

The element of surprise is out the window.

Except that most pro coaches say it would work.

Also, Virginia Tech seemed to almost get worse the more they played us.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

It’s the old is it:
A. The Jimmies & the Joes
B The X’s & the O’s

I’ll argue we had a superior scheme that could be thwarted by a wide disparity in talent. It would be cool if we could wipe out the disparity in talent, let the schemes go head to head and see what happens. We had good enough talent at GT to compete under CPJ, but not enough to compete with the elites. Because the talent level was what it was you also had the normal game to game variation where we’d either upset someone we had no business beating or vice versa. Take the pro/anti-CPJ bias out of it because you either liked him or he pissed in your Wheaties and that’s our last decade of football but the record speaks for itself.

The interesting thing I find about the anti-CPJ crowd is they hated him from the minute he was announced. Usually a coach gets to establish a record, but I can’t think of another coach in GT history going back decades that couldn;t wait to run him off from the onset.

Bud Carson had a similar crowd pulling against him from day one. It magnified every loss times 10. He went on to establish the Steel Curtain at Pittsburgh and was recognized as a defensive guru but was remembered by his Tech detractors as "not being Dodd."