Paul Johnson visiting the Ravens today

[knoxjacket]

Except that most pro coaches say it would work.

Also, Virginia Tech seemed to almost get worse the more they played us.

Citation?

Talent-wise Virginia Tech literally got worse every time they played us.

 

[knoxjacket]

It’s the old is it:
A. The Jimmies & the Joes
B The X’s & the O’s

I’ll argue we had a superior scheme that could be thwarted by a wide disparity in talent. It would be cool if we could wipe out the disparity in talent, let the schemes go head to head and see what happens. We had good enough talent at GT to compete under CPJ, but not enough to compete with the elites. Because the talent level was what it was you also had the normal game to game variation where we’d either upset someone we had no business beating or vice versa. Take the pro/anti-CPJ bias out of it because you either liked him or he pissed in your Wheaties and that’s our last decade of football but the record speaks for itself.

The interesting thing I find about the anti-CPJ crowd is they hated him from the minute he was announced. Usually a coach gets to establish a record, but I can’t think of another coach in GT history going back decades that couldn;t wait to run him off from the onset.

Agreed. He had a worse winning percentage than the two coaches that immediately proceeded him.

 

[Pointer]

Everyone here is missing the most obvious reason it wouldn’t work. CPJ had the most success against teams with limited exposure to the system. Look at his record vs rotating Atlantic opponents vs Coastal opponents. Look at his record/offensive production in bowls.

NFL team have giant staffs analyzing every little detail of every opponent. They are allowed more practice than is allowed at the college level. You play divisional opponents twice.

The element of surprise is out the window.

Funny how you correlate exposure to the scheme and ease of defending it. As the years went on, the coastal teams we play "got better at defending it" (see the Virginia Tech post above that already discounts this myth). I correlate mbob's arrival and football spending drying up with this. As almost all other acc schools pumped money into their programs, we fell further and further behind. Even DUKE had recruiting assistants!!! Anytime opposing acc teams came to play at BDS they had to request many additional sideline tickets for "football support staff". And people wonder why it was even more difficult to recruit at Tech for CPJ. This is one of the biggest reasons why tech started tending down the past couple of years. I won't even get into how there was never enough money to go after the defensive coordinator that CPJ actually wanted, even though we weren't paying an offensive coordinator. Many took Paul's being able to do more with less for granted. I hope he gets another shot at another P5 program after he's rested for a while. Thank goodness for the new AD because the program was headed to the stone ages before him.

 

[Pointer]

Agreed. He had a worse winning percentage than the two coaches that immediately proceeded him.

Yes and CCG played in the coastal when it was much less competitive than it was now. And GTFO with winning percentage. How many OB's and ACCG's did they take Tech to? I think CGO was pretty great coach, but he also didn't have APR to deal with (see flunk gate). Comparing CPJ's accomplishments to CCG's based on win percentages is just plain dumb.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Citation?

Talent-wise Virginia Tech literally got worse every time they played us.

Citation:

First, memory of every pro coach I've heard talk about the option since Lombardi.

The consensus, rightly or wrongly, seems to be that the "front office" people don't want their pro teams running it for fear of injuring their quarterbacks. So it is not that coaches don't think it will work.

Also, according to Wikipedia, the ESPN College Football Encyclopedia has a section on option football in which pro coaches all seem to generally agree that it would work.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Citation?

Talent-wise Virginia Tech literally got worse every time they played us.

So Virginia Tech seems to prove that it is not familiarity with the offensive system that is the key to defending it but rather the quality of the players. Kind of like every other offense I can think of.

 

[Pointer]

So Virginia Tech seems to prove that it is not familiarity with the offensive system that is the key to defending it but rather the quality of the players. Kind of like every other offense I can think of.

Great point! Thanks for pointing out another of this guys many contradictions

 

[dressedcheeseside]

So Virginia Tech seems to prove that it is not familiarity with the offensive system that is the key to defending it but rather the quality of the players. Kind of like every other offense I can think of.

I actually believe opponent familiarity was a factor but not the main factor in our struggles recently. It's hard to say we have an advantage because teams only have 3 days to prepare for us and then say familiarity is not a factor. By the end of CPJ's tenure, teams had guys starting who had faced us multiple years. So I believe it's not just the scheming by the DC's that caught up, but the individual players and their perfection in reading our O, predicting our O and most importantly perfecting specific techniques for getting off our blocks.

I can list numerous factors that had a much bigger impact on our recent struggles on O, however. A dropoff in recruiting coupled with bad luck with injuries and attrition of key players were at the top of that list. That said, the D was much more responsible for our struggles as a team. ST's were pretty bad as well. If we just had an average kicker in '17 we'd have surely beaten UT and a few others. And we all remember our less than stellar kickoff coverage, especially in Tampa, ugh!

 

[ScGold]

When the dukes of the world had figured it out then change was needed. That speaks to the fact that the league had caught up.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I actually believe opponent familiarity was a factor but not the main factor in our struggles recently. It's hard to say we have an advantage because teams only have 3 days to prepare for us and then say familiarity is not a factor. By the end of CPJ's tenure, teams had guys starting who had faced us multiple years. So I believe it's not just the scheming by the DC's that caught up, but the individual players and their perfection in reading our O, predicting our O and most importantly perfecting specific techniques for getting off our blocks.

I can list numerous factors that had a much bigger impact on our recent struggles on O, however. A dropoff in recruiting coupled with bad luck with injuries and attrition of key players were at the top of that list. That said, the D was much more responsible for our struggles as a team. ST's were pretty bad as well. If we just had an average kicker in '17 we'd have surely beaten UT and a few others. And we all remember our less than stellar kickoff coverage, especially in Tampa, ugh!

Yep. There were a few years after 2014 where I kept wishing we get our defense and our special teams well at the same time. Seems like one area would improve some but be offset by a fall off in another area. Not to mention the fall off in wide receivers who could get separation and make the difficult catch.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

When the dukes of the world had figured it out then change was needed. That speaks to the fact that the league had caught up.

By that logic then if CGC has a losing record against an opponent it will mean that opponent has caught up with the system.

Hopefully Tech will start to get a break on scheduling too. I can remember having to play 3 teams in less than 3 weeks, traveling thousands of miles in back to back away games at critical testing points in the semester as well as having key opponents having a week off prior to playing us.

 

[knoxjacket]

I actually believe opponent familiarity was a factor but not the main factor in our struggles recently. It's hard to say we have an advantage because teams only have 3 days to prepare for us and then say familiarity is not a factor. By the end of CPJ's tenure, teams had guys starting who had faced us multiple years. So I believe it's not just the scheming by the DC's that caught up, but the individual players and their perfection in reading our O, predicting our O and most importantly perfecting specific techniques for getting off our blocks.

I can list numerous factors that had a much bigger impact on our recent struggles on O, however. A dropoff in recruiting coupled with bad luck with injuries and attrition of key players were at the top of that list. That said, the D was much more responsible for our struggles as a team. ST's were pretty bad as well. If we just had an average kicker in '17 we'd have surely beaten UT and a few others. And we all remember our less than stellar kickoff coverage, especially in Tampa, ugh!

We were an average kicker away from beating the worst Tennessee team in the history of their program. We gave up 42 points to that team. UMASS with their massive athletic budget was able to hold them to 17.

Hurray!

 

[Pointer]

When the dukes of the world had figured it out then change was needed. That speaks to the fact that the league had caught up.

Did you miss all the points where Duke had put more into their program than us?

 

[Pointer]

We were an average kicker away from beating the worst Tennessee team in the history of their program. We gave up 42 points to that team. UMASS with their massive athletic budget was able to hold them to 17.

Hurray!

Ted roof. The same Ted roof that was thrust upon CPJ. The same Coach who went to NC State and bent and broke their defense too.

 

[knoxjacket]

Ted roof. The same Ted roof that was thrust upon CPJ. The same Coach who went to NC State and bent and broke their defense too.

Everything is everyone else’s fault, huh?

Interesting every post you have is in this thread. Are you a tech fan or just a CPJ one?

 

[knoxjacket]

By that logic then if CGC has a losing record against an opponent it will mean that opponent has caught up with the system.

Hopefully Tech will start to get a break on scheduling too. I can remember having to play 3 teams in less than 3 weeks, traveling thousands of miles in back to back away games at critical testing points in the semester as well as having key opponents having a week off prior to playing us.

Excuses excuses.

 

[Pointer]

Everything is everyone else’s fault, huh?

Interesting every post you have is in this thread. Are you a tech fan or just a CPJ one?

No I'm just tired of a few of you who do the exact opposite and blame CPJ for everything. I'm simply giving you a taste is your own medicine. Not very good is it? The only difference is I actually have logic and facts to back it up.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Yes and CCG played in the coastal when it was much less competitive than it was now. And GTFO with winning percentage. How many OB's and ACCG's did they take Tech to? I think CGO was pretty great coach, but he also didn't have APR to deal with (see flunk gate). Comparing CPJ's accomplishments to CCG's based on win percentages is just plain dumb.

Funny how we have had these same discussions for the last 7 or 8 years, repeating the same points and counterpoints.

I've been around long enough to know that Tech fans seem to fall along a spectrum with two types being overly represented -apathetic fans and cranky complainers.

I mention that to make a different point however. Aside from people not liking a coach or just being critical, there is an almost irrational hatred of an actual offensive system. I don't get that. I might prefer one system over another or have my rankings of favorite to least favorite but I don't hate any offense system.

The fact that we have a new coach and a new system and people still want to blast the old coach and system strikes me as an emotional investment beyond reason.

Just my opinion.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Funny how we have had these same discussions for the last 7 or 8 years, repeating the same points and counterpoints.

I've been around long enough to know that Tech fans seem to fall along a spectrum with two types being overly represented -apathetic fans and cranky complainers.

I mention that to make a different point however. Aside from people not liking a coach or just being critical, there is an almost irrational hatred of an actual offensive system. I don't get that. I might prefer one system over another or have my rankings of favorite to least favorite but I don't hate any offense system.

The fact that we have a new coach and a new system and people still want to blast the old coach and system strikes me as an emotional investment beyond reason.

Just my opinion.

I don't hate any offensive system either, but the flip side of that coin are the fans who have an obsession and irrational devotion to CPJ's offense, as if its the end all, be all. That's how the debate in this thread got started. Somebody came along lanenting that we gave up the precious option.

 

[Pointer]

I don't hate any offensive system either, but the flip side of that coin are the fans who have an obsession and irrational devotion to CPJ's offense, as if its the end all, be all. That's how the debate in this thread got started. Somebody came along lanenting that we gave up the precious option.

I can understand this point of view. I love the option, but at the same time I don't think it's the end all be all. Great fit for Tech, but there may be others that work. I'm just sick and tired of all the posters crapping on the option as if it was the reason for Tech's recent struggles. I'll admit I'm sad to see it go and wish we could keep it and add CGC's obviously great defenses.