ZERO commits

[gtbync]

You should learn English

So mature, it's a forum, I didn't know we had to be professional.

 

[SteamWhistle]

Wait... did we find out who the top 30 recruits BG brought in besides Robert Carter (who bailed on him because of Under Armour's influence)? I've gotta be forgetting who else he got since he got "guys".

Poole and Royal was who I thought of off the top of my head. They might’ve been lower but seemed like their hype was bigger then anyone we’ve gotten since.

 

[dtm1997]

Poole and Royal was who I thought of off the top of my head. They might’ve been lower but seemed like their hype was bigger then anyone we’ve gotten since.

Royal was Hewitt's last recruit. Neither were top 30.

 

[Jetdrive3]

Not sure where you are pulling the "17th ranked class" from. According to 24/7, the last 4 classes are not ranked/doesn't exist, 30, 75, and 122. Look, i think the guy is a good human being and a pretty good coach, however, there is no arguing he is a world class dork and I honestly believe that affects his ability to recruit.

This class ranking is not reality.

 

[jayparr]

We do need to balance things out more. The transfer portal is a very useful tool for that and allows for greater flexibility with rosters than in the past.

That being said, where we go is to try and iterate on what we have done in a better way. Last year we had a great year but we didn't really have any wiggle room to get in Sturdy/Howard/Saba more. What we have to do is try to make sure the next "peak" is better so that we can get the back ups more ready to take over when the starters leave. It is somewhat cyclical, in both directions, better teams have more opportunities to play their bench which makes them more ready to take over when the times comes.

Now, are we on that path? IMO to answer that question compare this roster (who will be here in two years) to the 18-19 roster.

18-19 had Jose, Mike, Moses, Cole, Khalid, Haywood, and Sjolund.

This year we have

Smith, Sturdy, Coleman, Kelly, Maxwell, Jalon Moore, Meka, Howard, and Saba who could be back in two years.

Now we have the benefit of hindsight with the 18-19 group. We don't know who will transfer out or not use the covid eligibility or whatever of the current group.

Now, of the 18-19 group Jose and Mike had already proven more than any of the guys we have now, but hadn't really proven to be stars yet. Jose was shooting under 40% overall and under 30% from the three. Mike was a 10 a game scorer but you could argue he's output was higher due to opportunity when compared to say Coleman or Kelly. Moses had just started to come along at the end of his sophomore year the last 7 or 8 games. Haywood, Cole, and Moore had shown flashes, but nothing that really stood out. IMO the current group of young players has a higher ceiling as a group than that above. Now that does assume they stay together which we don't know.

Of course the above group also added Ush and Bubba to help out as they developed.

So where do we go. Ideally we can "replace" Ush and Mike with senior transfers out of the portal. It's a tall task but we've seen it play out in conference already. IF that can happen, and we develop our young guys we could push the time table up a year relative to that 18-19 group. If that's the case then we should be set to handle the losses of the transfers with the players we have. Otherwise we have to hope that when we "peak" with the next group they can create more separation in more games to allow us to get game experience for the back ups to be more ready. Fortunately IMO we have more raw talent with this young group and several of the key pieces have 3 more years of eligibility left rather than 2, so that could also lead to an easier "sustain" than the 18-19 group.

The reality is no matter how we build up the roster you have to be able to deal with departures. Better recruiting will make that easier, but also also probably increases the frequency you have to replace guys.

Great post!!!

 

[Root4GT]

We do need to balance things out more. The transfer portal is a very useful tool for that and allows for greater flexibility with rosters than in the past.

That being said, where we go is to try and iterate on what we have done in a better way. Last year we had a great year but we didn't really have any wiggle room to get in Sturdy/Howard/Saba more. What we have to do is try to make sure the next "peak" is better so that we can get the back ups more ready to take over when the starters leave. It is somewhat cyclical, in both directions, better teams have more opportunities to play their bench which makes them more ready to take over when the times comes.

Now, are we on that path? IMO to answer that question compare this roster (who will be here in two years) to the 18-19 roster.

18-19 had Jose, Mike, Moses, Cole, Khalid, Haywood, and Sjolund.

This year we have

Smith, Sturdy, Coleman, Kelly, Maxwell, Jalon Moore, Meka, Howard, and Saba who could be back in two years.

Now we have the benefit of hindsight with the 18-19 group. We don't know who will transfer out or not use the covid eligibility or whatever of the current group.

Now, of the 18-19 group Jose and Mike had already proven more than any of the guys we have now, but hadn't really proven to be stars yet. Jose was shooting under 40% overall and under 30% from the three. Mike was a 10 a game scorer but you could argue he's output was higher due to opportunity when compared to say Coleman or Kelly. Moses had just started to come along at the end of his sophomore year the last 7 or 8 games. Haywood, Cole, and Moore had shown flashes, but nothing that really stood out. IMO the current group of young players has a higher ceiling as a group than that above. Now that does assume they stay together which we don't know.

Of course the above group also added Ush and Bubba to help out as they developed.

So where do we go. Ideally we can "replace" Ush and Mike with senior transfers out of the portal. It's a tall task but we've seen it play out in conference already. IF that can happen, and we develop our young guys we could push the time table up a year relative to that 18-19 group. If that's the case then we should be set to handle the losses of the transfers with the players we have. Otherwise we have to hope that when we "peak" with the next group they can create more separation in more games to allow us to get game experience for the back ups to be more ready. Fortunately IMO we have more raw talent with this young group and several of the key pieces have 3 more years of eligibility left rather than 2, so that could also lead to an easier "sustain" than the 18-19 group.

The reality is no matter how we build up the roster you have to be able to deal with departures. Better recruiting will make that easier, but also also probably increases the frequency you have to replace guys.

A couple of issues with your take. Interesting point of view but highly depressing, at best GT can be a good team every 3 or 4 years. In the 2018-19 year the ACC was an exceptional conference. We had three #1 seeds in the NCAAT. This year we might only get 3 or 4 teams in the tournament and only 1 team as a #4 seed or above. Point being the ACC is a very poor conference this year and we are the worst team in the bad conference. That's disturbing at best!

If, and it's a big if, our youngsters improve as did Jose and Moses can you really expect any of them to become an ACC Player or Defensive Player of the year candidate? No chance. They certainty can become good ACC level players but no chance to be the best player in the conference.

It's hard to go from ACC Champion to last place in the conference the next year. That shows no balance in yearly recruting as well as an overall lack of talent. Toss in coaching that is not maximizing the talent on hand.

Something needs to change with the GT BB program or we will be a perennial bottom third team in conference play. I hope CJP see that changes need to occur and takes the initiative to make the changes on hi own. If he won't than TS needs to step in and force change similar to what happened with the football staff this off season. No guarantee such changes will work but clearly changes are needed.

 

[lv20gt]

Interesting point of view but highly depressing, at best GT can be a good team every 3 or 4 years.

That isn't what I said at all.

In the 2018-19 year the ACC was an exceptional conference. We had three #1 seeds in the NCAAT. This year we might only get 3 or 4 teams in the tournament and only 1 team as a #4 seed or above. Point being the ACC is a very poor conference this year and we are the worst team in the bad conference. That's disturbing at best!

How does that addressanything I said? It's as if you want to argue that the 18-19 group was a higher potential group and instead of talking about them you talk about the rest of the conference?

If, and it's a big if, our youngsters improve as did Jose and Moses can you really expect any of them to become an ACC Player or Defensive Player of the year candidate? No chance. They certainty can become good ACC level players but no chance to be the best player in the conference.

Yes. Also, there ware many years where the level that Moses played would not have won him ACC PoY. I would argue most years that would be the case. He was a great player, but it also took a fairly unique situation with both UNC and NCSU being down and the top teams being built more around team play that didn't really show off top players as much, and a third top team that missed a huge chunk of the schedule. I absolutely believe we have multiple players who could develop into players of the caliber of Moses and Jose. Whether that will earn them honors like those two got last year depends on the rest of the conference.

 

[kg01]

I just wanna know how many demons I need to exorcize for us to rid the program of the Hewitt curse.

Now many of you think the curse is about the coach but no. The curse is about you fans.

Fans turned on their own coach. Set fires all around the program which undermined his efforts. Now act all surprised that the fires are still burning.

Guy might've failed anyway but the degree to which the fans helped the deterioration along was shameful.

The least we can do is avoid doing it a second time.

 

[sgreer]

A few years ago I asked a retired D1 basketball coach and a local AAU coach each the same question “Why can’t Tech be good at basketball any more”. The D1 coach’s response was that basketball is the most corrupt in all of college athletics. The AAU coach said that kids don’t want to “do” school. Two answers from guys that know a heck of a lot more than I do.

 

[dtm1997]

A few years ago I asked a retired D1 basketball coach and a local AAU coach each the same question “Why can’t Tech be good at basketball any more”. The D1 coach’s response was that basketball is the most corrupt in all of college athletics. The AAU coach said that kids don’t want to “do” school. Two answers from guys that know a heck of a lot more than I do.

Sounds like the right answers are the most obvious answers.

 

[Root4GT]

That isn't what I said at all.



How does that addressanything I said? It's as if you want to argue that the 18-19 group was a higher potential group and instead of talking about them you talk about the rest of the conference?



Yes. Also, there ware many years where the level that Moses played would not have won him ACC PoY. I would argue most years that would be the case. He was a great player, but it also took a fairly unique situation with both UNC and NCSU being down and the top teams being built more around team play that didn't really show off top players as much, and a third top team that missed a huge chunk of the schedule. I absolutely believe we have multiple players who could develop into players of the caliber of Moses and Jose. Whether that will earn them honors like those two got last year depends on the rest of the conference.

I salute your optimism. I see nothing that gives me that optimism. Only time will tell.

What do you see as our potential next year in reference to conference standing?

 

[kg01]

Sounds like the right answers are the most obvious answers.

I sincerely hope 'they' create some kind of club system, so all the non-students can just play basketball like they truly want to. Leave the NCAA(sic) to the students.

Nothing wrong with not wanting to go to school. But let's stop the farcical nature of things.

 

[lv20gt]

What do you see as our potential next year in reference to conference standing?

Before considering transfers (in or out).

Based purely on potential a back court of Smith, Sturdy, Coleman, Kelly, and Maxwell has a tremendous amount of upside. Lots needs to happen for them to actualize it but the talent is certainly there. IMO Sturdy has quietly developed fairly nicely this year and should continue to do so and become a solid PG next year. Smith has tremendous upside with his combination of quickness and athleticism. Just a matter of when, if, he learns to control himself more. Coleman, Kelly, and Maxwell all have the potential to be great scorers. All 3 have rally nice looking jump shots (Kelly's % is hurt by his rough start but that is turning around the past dozen games or so) and aren't just three point shooters. Front court has less upside but if Khalid returns him and J. Moore at the 4 are nice, and I personally think our bigs, Howard, Meka, and Saba are significantly better than people are making them out to be largely because I feel they've been put in bad positions this year. IMO this year has been Pastner and co.s worst coaching job here, by a significant margin, and believe he missed on the mid year adjustments this year where he has hit on them the past two. A lot depends on the jumps the new players make in the offseason. If everything goes our way I could see as high as 4th or so. More realistically I see middle of the pack, 7th or 8th, with a good set up for the following year. While losing Mike and Ush will hurt, we should have a lot less inconsistency next year playing less minutes with new contributors than we are this year which should help win some games even if it also means some other games are less competitive due to lacking Mike and Ush. The wildcard is the transfers though. IMO put a top tier transfer PF on next year's team and a more fitting approach by the coaching staff and we could have a very good year.

 

[Root4GT]

Before considering transfers (in or out).

Based purely on potential a back court of Smith, Sturdy, Coleman, Kelly, and Maxwell has a tremendous amount of upside. Lots needs to happen for them to actualize it but the talent is certainly there. IMO Sturdy has quietly developed fairly nicely this year and should continue to do so and become a solid PG next year. Smith has tremendous upside with his combination of quickness and athleticism. Just a matter of when, if, he learns to control himself more. Coleman, Kelly, and Maxwell all have the potential to be great scorers. All 3 have rally nice looking jump shots (Kelly's % is hurt by his rough start but that is turning around the past dozen games or so) and aren't just three point shooters. Front court has less upside but if Khalid returns him and J. Moore at the 4 are nice, and I personally think our bigs, Howard, Meka, and Saba are significantly better than people are making them out to be largely because I feel they've been put in bad positions this year. IMO this year has been Pastner and co.s worst coaching job here, by a significant margin, and believe he missed on the mid year adjustments this year where he has hit on them the past two. A lot depends on the jumps the new players make in the offseason. If everything goes our way I could see as high as 4th or so. More realistically I see middle of the pack, 7th or 8th, with a good set up for the following year. While losing Mike and Ush will hurt, we should have a lot less inconsistency next year playing less minutes with new contributors than we are this year which should help win some games even if it also means some other games are less competitive due to lacking Mike and Ush. The wildcard is the transfers though. IMO put a top tier transfer PF on next year's team and a more fitting approach by the coaching staff and we could have a very good year.

Good response. I just don't see the overall upside you do. Watching lots of other collage basketball games we seem to really lack quickness across the board with the exception of Smith and Usher. Kelly might have the quicks but his minutes are sporadic at best so it's hard to tell. Today's game seems to require several players who are both good outside shooters and can drive to the basket on their own if the defense overplays them out by the 3 point line. I just don't see that as a strength for next year.

I agree Pastner has not figured out how this team can effectively function as a team. We seem to run an offense that requires a player to catch a pass at the top of the key and beat his man off the dribble to the rim. Very few of our guys can both beat a man and finish at the rim. Frankly only Usher is a good rim finisher yet he picks up offensive fouls way too frequently.

The modified Princeton offense with any of our big men are not very effective from the high post.

I don't have an answer for this year's team mainly because I don't think there is one.

I hope you are right and I am wrong.

 

[daddee724]

Good response. I just don't see the overall upside you do. Watching lots of other collage basketball games we seem to really lack quickness across the board with the exception of Smith and Usher. Kelly might have the quicks but his minutes are sporadic at best so it's hard to tell. Today's game seems to require several players who are both good outside shooters and can drive to the basket on their own if the defense overplays them out by the 3 point line. I just don't see that as a strength for next year.

I agree Pastner has not figured out how this team can effectively function as a team. We seem to run an offense that requires a player to catch a pass at the top of the key and beat his man off the dribble to the rim. Very few of our guys can both beat a man and finish at the rim. Frankly only Usher is a good rim finisher yet he picks up offensive fouls way too frequently.

The modified Princeton offense with any of our big men are not very effective from the high post.

I don't have an answer for this year's team mainly because I don't think there is one.

I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I have the same optimism as LVgt, but you are right if JP doesn't change the offense based on the players strength then that may cause some struggles. That isn't a player issue if the coach isn't making the necessary adjustments. We will be ok next season

 

[bke1984]

Deebo isn't the long term replacement for Devoe?

I agree. That dude can play. Pretty solid contributions as a true freshman. And Deivon is getting better. We need a big that can contribute. Howard has looked better the past few games, but his hands are still his weakness. He’s playing faster now though, so I’m still hopeful he can develop. We land a nice transfer that can play down low and we should could be fine.

 

[Techster]

Dude I promise you Tech has plenty of money when we need it. If the money fans want Pastner gone he’s gone, hell they tried to cam Collins last year and Tstan wouldn’t let them. TStan is next on the chopping block.

Correct, GT has more money than they let on, but they are conservative with that money.

No, he's not "next on the chopping block". Not even close. Even if CGC sat on the sidelines and ate Cheetos while thumbing through an H&M catalogue looking for skinny jeans all next season, TStan will be fine.

People who think TStan is fully responsible for the CGC debacle don't understand how involved the "big money guys" were in hiring CGC, and how much political capital TStan has within GT. TStan also inherited Pastner and helped Pastner get us to our first NCAAT in over a decade. He's responsible for some VERY big initiatives...IF those failed, then TStan should be worried. GT isn't Auburn or Tennessee where the job security of the AD fluctuates with the record of the football and basketball coaches. That's not the type of school GT is, or has ever been.

As others have said, if you want GT to have a healthy athletic program, do your part. Contribute, buy tickets/season tickets, buy merchandise...do your part.

 

[Jetdrive3]

A few years ago I asked a retired D1 basketball coach and a local AAU coach each the same question “Why can’t Tech be good at basketball any more”. The D1 coach’s response was that basketball is the most corrupt in all of college athletics. The AAU coach said that kids don’t want to “do” school. Two answers from guys that know a heck of a lot more than I do.

Sure we know that, but that doesn’t explain all the programs in the country. Atlanta area is loaded with talent. Some families do care about what educations can do for life past BB. Accepting poor performance as an inevitability is a cop out.

 

[dtm1997]

Sure we know that, but that doesn’t explain all the programs in the country. Atlanta area is loaded with talent. Some families do care about what educations can do for life past BB. Accepting poor performance as an inevitability is a cop out.

It's not an acceptance of poor performance, it's the reality of peaks & valleys in performance because of some inherent disadvantages GT faces.

I think too many had higher expectations than they should have for this past year, but think it's also fair to say the W/L record is lacking.

We're going through a valley that needs work on several aspects. Maybe we face another valley next year. Maybe we start climbing towards another peak.

Either way the medium to longer term expectations should take those disadvantages in to account that they are extremely challenging to overcome.

 

[Jetdrive3]

It's not an acceptance of poor performance, it's the reality of peaks & valleys in performance because of some inherent disadvantages GT faces.

I think too many had higher expectations than they should have for this past year, but think it's also fair to say the W/L record is lacking.

We're going through a valley that needs work on several aspects. Maybe we face another valley next year. Maybe we start climbing towards another peak.

Either way the medium to longer term expectations should take those disadvantages in to account that they are extremely challenging to overcome.

Agree to disagree