Wofford - Tonight (12/6)

[ramblinwreck1378]

So enlighten us...

Sure:

WOF outnumbered us in FGA 59-42. They only shot 35% from the field, which is a good defensive stat for us, but volume shooting pays off sometimes. The reason they were able to take 17 more shots than us was because of two primary reasons: rebounding and turnovers. Wofford had 12 offensive rebounds, which lead to 12 second chance opportunities (none bigger than the offensive rebound in the corner at the end of the game). While these did not lead to many points (only 5 second chance points) it limited the number of possessions that we were able to have - several times they got the offensive board and reset the offense (i.e. an additional 20 seconds off the clock). Second, they didn't waste their possessions with turnovers - only had 6 last night compared to our 16 (AD had 4 turnovers in 18 min - unacceptable). Think about that - we forfeited a shot 16 times down the floor. That's almost your FGA discrepancy right there, even with the offensive boards given up. By the way, they had 17 points off of our 16 turnovers.

If we cut both of those numbers in half we win the game easily. We shot 57% from the floor - the issue was not our shooting (and certainly not one kid that shot the lights out), but us getting up enough shots.

 

[orientalnc]

Turnovers have plagued us all season. Our guys have not learned to protect the ball.

 

[H-Wade]

I didn’t think the defense was that terrible last night. There is only so much you can do when the kid is just turning and chucking it falling away from 25 feet. Let’s also not act like he is some *******, that kid has been doing that for 3 years. I’m pretty sure he played well his freshman year against us as well. He is a career 46% shooter from deep on 517 attempts.

Why do we always play these SMALL schools with kids that are just unconscious from 3 making everything yet we've only had a few decent shooters in the past decade. It blows my mind... just find a few guys who can hit threes. It's been years since we've been any good at shooting.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The thing about offensive rebounds, is when the other team is pounding it from the outside, the rebounds are long rebounds. It's much harder to keep the offensive guy away from the ball when we're talking about long rebounds. So, some of the stats are skewed.

 

[GTJason]

Everyone is frustrated with these losses especially after starting 4-1, but we need to calm down. We had a SR PG last year and while Jose is way more talented as far as shooting and ball control, he's not controlling the team the way Heath could. Most of that has to do with being a freshman and it will get better as he plays with his teammates more, but the one knock I have on him is his passing. As a PG every pass has to have purpose even if it's to reset your dribble. Sometimes he'll throw a lazy pass and others his pass will be just off the mark making it difficult for his teammate to catch. The latter is a huge problem IMO because it destroys the rhythm of the offense especially for a shooter who wants to catch and shoot. Others are doing this as well, but a PG has to make crisp passes. I know hitting guys in stride and knowing where teammates will be etc will come with experience, but without JO anchoring us down teams are perfectly happy to collapse on Ben, force Jose to pass and live and die based on Tadric and whether or not Haywood is going to aggressively shoot the ball. Crap did I just give future opponents a defensive blueprint?

 

[slugboy]

Well, we've lost two games we should never lose within the span of a week.
We've put so much of our offense and defense into two players--Okogie, who is out, and Lammers, who is all but out with his ankle. But, we shouldn't have to talk about "well, if we had Okogie, we would have won". The other players on this team should be able to handle this level of competition.
From here on out, I'm treating anything good that happens with this team as a windfall. I'm looking for a few things from here on out. First, while I will look at improvement from Alvarado and Haywood, I'm going to be more interested in seeing improvement from Moore and Cole--if this is going to be a rough season, let's use it to get the freshmen ready to play. Second, I want to see more "team ball"--not the offense going through Lammers, but the offense going through a system. I want to see an offense that works while Lammers rests on the bench for two minutes. Finally, I expect to see us press a lot on defense, maybe most of the game.

 

[jbix80]

I'm the eternal optimist when it comes to my sports teams. At the same time, I try to be a realist. Yes, we have some issues to work through right now. I think there are three major issues: Ben is not 100%, we don't have Okogie, and we are playing the freshman a lot of minutes. The freshmen (Alvarado and Haywood) have shown that they are going to be good players. Each game is another learning experience for them. JO should be back before too long, and hopefully Ben can get healed up over the finals break. Everyone needs to relax. I hate losing as much as the next guy, but we really aren't far off from last year at this point. We played Tennessee far better despite losing still. I like our team as we move into ACC play. I guess the disappointment for most of us is that it looked like we had a tourney team going into the year, then the negative series of events took place. I'm still watching every game. Wish I lived near Georgia...I'd be at as many games as I could. The worst thing that can happen right now is for this program to lose support. Wofford had their gym rocking last night...that's what we need at the ThrillerDome!

 

[YlJacket]

Yesterday wasn't Pastner's finest hour. IMHO there were things that could have been done like doubling the heck out of him to get the ball out of his hands and see if someone else could beat us. However, that wasn't the main reason we lost nor does it change anything about the rational for giving him a year extension for being coach of the year last year. That is nonsensical for someone who was ACC coach of the year.

Our main issue is what we know - Ben's ankle and Okogie's suspension/finger. But just behind that we have a group of freshmen who were recruited as 4 year players (not one year wonders) who are playing like you would expect 4 year players to play their first year in college. Last year Okogie played way above that level and Jose may still get to that level but he has regressed a little from a hot start to the mean of what you would expect. Haywood is being way too deferential and seems to be trying not to make mistakes instead of making plays.

Last night our offense was some of the same sets as last year but didn't look anything at all like last years. Movement was slow and for lack of a better word "perfunctory" - no violent cuts, nothing with a purpose. (except for Tadric's back cut and phantom walking call). That was what the team - and particularly Okogie - made a living on last year. Defense was struggling to put it mildly even if the last couple of shots from that kid were beyond the parking lot.

That is freshmen learning the college game in a strange gym with one guy having an otherwise unworldly experience for them. In some ways the same song as Grambling. Last year everything broke right on a team that had mostly upper classmen and a breakout freshman. Upper classmen that were limited to some degree in talent but knew how to play the game and had seen everything already. We now have solid 4 year players at key positions playing like freshmen in a 4 year ramp. Yes Okogie and a healthy Ben would have hidden most of these growing pains but we didn't have that break right for us this year. Karma is a *****.

 

[GTJake]

I haven't had the chance to watch any GT Basketball yet this year ... I assume the word of the hour is patience ???

 

[RamblinRed]

Honestly from the moment Josh got injured my expectations (which were not that high to begin with) changed radically.
My goal before the season was a return to the NIT (understand that GT was one of the last 2 teams to get an invite last year and was nearly left out).
GT won 17 regular season games (16 against Div 1 competition). Anything in double digits wins last year was going to satisfy me.
i was sort of expecting a regression to the mean this year so anywhere from 14-17 wins would be satisfactory. i never saw NCAA as a strong possibility. That would require basically everything going right for a second straight year, that seldom happens and certainly hasn't happened to this point.

Last night game largely fell on 3 issues.
Poor defensive rebounding, poor offensive execution, and a player going nuts from 3-pt range.

This team has been pretty consistent. Without Josh in the lineup and with Ben playing hurt it is basically a 60-65 ppg offensive team. That puts a ton of pressure on the D. A very good team can hold teams to about 60-65 ppg, so realistically almost every game becomes a 50/50 game until we get more offensive punch.
We were going to rely heavily on Ben, Josh and Tad to carry the scoring load this season. Right now Josh hasn't played a min, Tad missed 3 games and Ben is playing hurt. Most of the recent games they haven't even run the offense through Ben at the high post.

Last year felt alot like Hewitt's first year. An experienced, somewhat undertalented (Hewitt's had more though) team that played hard, played well and exceeded expectations. The next 2 years were sort of rebuilding the team and roster and were basically 2 .500 teams. Then in yr 4 it really comes together.

i think this rebuild job is very similar. Since we are not bringing in FR that are expected to be big contributors for the most part as FR, it means it will take longer. Both Jose and Curtis have exceeded my early expectations for them. I'd love for Curtis to shoot more, but he is a FR and sort of playing like one - willing to defer.

I think Pastner made an interesting comment after the NW game. His comment was this FR class was going to be great when they are JR - I think he may turn out to be right. Unfortunately as fans that means we have 2 yrs before we get there. I'm sort of expecting the true breakthrough to come when this class is JR. That is when my expectations are really going to be raised.

This yr, who knows what is going to happen, been a tough start. The news yesterday that not only is Josh not practicing, he is not doing any conditioning work right now either as they don't want the finger to get infected again is a little of a double whammy. Not only is Josh going to be rusty when he comes back, he is not going to be in top shape either. Assuming he is back around the 1st of the year I think it will take a good 2 weeks before we start to see the real Josh. That would mean only about 6 weeks of top level Josh.

I think this team could do well late in the season as the ACC schedule is frontloaded. The key is going to be is the team going to be too far in the hole by that team to even be able to make a run for the NIT. But all you can do is play the team you have. I don't think the coaching has been quite as good this year, but they are also somewhat limited in what levers they can pull. I'd love to see Curt shoot more - but some of that will come as he gains more experience and gets more comfortable with college. You can only force it so much. Jose is off to a strong start- but he is going to have bad games. AD is better than last year but he is still a limited player.

The thought was it would take 3 recruiting class to get the program out of the woods and on more stable ground. This year's FR class is the first of those. We have 2 more to go (with the second one nearly complete).

It's frustrating and I certainly wasn't a Pastner fan when he was hired, but we have to be patient to an extent and let the rebuild play out. if in season 4 or 5 it isn't working we can make a move, but we have to get to that point first and the staff is going to have pretty long string to get there.

 

[MiracleWhips]

This Loss is all on Pastner no question about it. It's quite obvious at this point that Laberrie is the brains behind this operation. Pastner literally let Magee beat them, he didn't even attempt to throw a different look at the kid. SMH just flat out OUTCOACHED!

 

[jeffgt14]

This Loss is all on Pastner no question about it. It's quite obvious at this point that Laberrie is the brains behind this operation. Pastner literally let Magee beat them, he didn't even attempt to throw a different look at the kid. SMH just flat out OUTCOACHED!

Thanks for the analysis Ron!

 

[orientalnc]

Honestly from the moment Josh got injured my expectations (which were not that high to begin with) changed radically.
My goal before the season was a return to the NIT (understand that GT was one of the last 2 teams to get an invite last year and was nearly left out).
GT won 17 regular season games (16 against Div 1 competition). Anything in double digits wins last year was going to satisfy me.
i was sort of expecting a regression to the mean this year so anywhere from 14-17 wins would be satisfactory. i never saw NCAA as a strong possibility. That would require basically everything going right for a second straight year, that seldom happens and certainly hasn't happened to this point.

Last night game largely fell on 3 issues.
Poor defensive rebounding, poor offensive execution, and a player going nuts from 3-pt range.

This team has been pretty consistent. Without Josh in the lineup and with Ben playing hurt it is basically a 60-65 ppg offensive team. That puts a ton of pressure on the D. A very good team can hold teams to about 60-65 ppg, so realistically almost every game becomes a 50/50 game until we get more offensive punch.
We were going to rely heavily on Ben, Josh and Tad to carry the scoring load this season. Right now Josh hasn't played a min, Tad missed 3 games and Ben is playing hurt. Most of the recent games they haven't even run the offense through Ben at the high post.

Last year felt alot like Hewitt's first year. An experienced, somewhat undertalented (Hewitt's had more though) team that played hard, played well and exceeded expectations. The next 2 years were sort of rebuilding the team and roster and were basically 2 .500 teams. Then in yr 4 it really comes together.

i think this rebuild job is very similar. Since we are not bringing in FR that are expected to be big contributors for the most part as FR, it means it will take longer. Both Jose and Curtis have exceeded my early expectations for them. I'd love for Curtis to shoot more, but he is a FR and sort of playing like one - willing to defer.

I think Pastner made an interesting comment after the NW game. His comment was this FR class was going to be great when they are JR - I think he may turn out to be right. Unfortunately as fans that means we have 2 yrs before we get there. I'm sort of expecting the true breakthrough to come when this class is JR. That is when my expectations are really going to be raised.

This yr, who knows what is going to happen, been a tough start. The news yesterday that not only is Josh not practicing, he is not doing any conditioning work right now either as they don't want the finger to get infected again is a little of a double whammy. Not only is Josh going to be rusty when he comes back, he is not going to be in top shape either. Assuming he is back around the 1st of the year I think it will take a good 2 weeks before we start to see the real Josh. That would mean only about 6 weeks of top level Josh.

I think this team could do well late in the season as the ACC schedule is frontloaded. The key is going to be is the team going to be too far in the hole by that team to even be able to make a run for the NIT. But all you can do is play the team you have. I don't think the coaching has been quite as good this year, but they are also somewhat limited in what levers they can pull. I'd love to see Curt shoot more - but some of that will come as he gains more experience and gets more comfortable with college. You can only force it so much. Jose is off to a strong start- but he is going to have bad games. AD is better than last year but he is still a limited player.

The thought was it would take 3 recruiting class to get the program out of the woods and on more stable ground. This year's FR class is the first of those. We have 2 more to go (with the second one nearly complete).

It's frustrating and I certainly wasn't a Pastner fan when he was hired, but we have to be patient to an extent and let the rebuild play out. if in season 4 or 5 it isn't working we can make a move, but we have to get to that point first and the staff is going to have pretty long string to get there.

I agree with you, but it was pretty painful watching these recent games. Even in the Northwestern game we seemed to lose focus at times and turned the ball over five straight possessions. To your three issues I would add turnovers. We are averaging almost 14 turnovers a game, which is huge part of our offensive efficiency issue.

 

[Peacone36]

Thanks for the analysis Ron!

How dare you mention that name.....

 

[kg01]

Maybe the smartest man on this board. (Note: I said “maybe”, don’t go gettin’ a big head!)

Don't worry. Most folks are thinking it but don't have the heart to say it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

yup, so withholding judgment for 2-3 yr is ok ,but the extension was just stupid and not earned

Nm, easier way for me to respond.

 

[GT_EE78]

Questioning the contract extension? Really? The man just won coach of the year and beat 3 top 10 teams at home last year.

My concern is whether or not the AA has learned from past mistakes? Not denying that CJP had a good and "better than expected" year... If Gregory had been let go after his third year (which wasn't practical due to financial obligations caused by the Gaily and Hewitt contract extensions) then our program would be two years ahead of where it is now.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Crikey, I only made it through this thread by ignoring several new fonts to the bball pages. A surprisingly good year, blasting expectations and making it to the NIT finals, reinvigorates the fan base enough to get people following bball and immediately shi-posting.

 

[jeffgt14]

My concern is whether or not the AA has learned from past mistakes? Not denying that CJP had a good and "better than expected" year... If Gregory had been let go after his third year (which wasn't practical due to financial obligations caused by the Gaily and Hewitt contract extensions) then our program would be two years ahead of where it is now.

He's not going anywhere the next 5 years anyways.

 

[YlJacket]

So coach of the year in the ACC is not earning a one year extension? Wow

I was not really in favor of CJP when he was hired but he is doing pretty much what I hoped a solid candidate would do in recruiting - and exceeded that expectation on the court last year. Rewarding last year with a modest one year extension is exactly what we should do and so far from "past mistakes" as to be laughable. You keep good coaches by working with them. This is one of the ways. Not recognizing that accomplishment is what leads to losing coaches.

That one year extension was a very measured and appropriate reaction to the start of CJP's career at GT. If we start looking to sign him to a auto 7 year rollover deal then scream all you want. This wasn't it and didn't do anything toward putting the AA at risk.