The last two postgame PC

[wesgt123]

It may be too soon to speak like this, be it knee jerk reaction or just a sudden suspicion...

I’m worried we hired a pansie as a HC. Zero aggression during games. Zero football smarts. Zero clock management. Terrible and careless use of timeouts. I started the season positive, expecting bumps along the road. But what we’ve seen in 4 games isn’t much to boast about. At all.

And before someone jumps in...I’m aware our O line is in shambles. We have no real qb. Defense has been okay. Say whatever but the coach has to be held accountable. CPJ sure was. Trust me, I was one of them. I agree a change was needed.

The only thing so far he’s good at is getting kids committed and press conferences. I’m willing to wait a few more years but this is ridiculous no matter how you slice it.

 

[Boaty1]

False. We have tons of guys on our roster rated 4-stars by at least one agency. James Graham, Yates, Jamious Griffin, BJ Swilling, Tre Swilling, Askew, Jaquan Henderson, Dingle, Chimedza, Clayton, Ezzard, Walker, Jay King, Kaleb Oliver, Sims, Allen... I'm missing some still. But this is the most I can remember in a long time. The cupboard isn't bare.

1. You just listed a bunch of defensive players and all were bottom of the barrel 4 stars except for the Swillings. Defense is not where our problem is.

2. Using recruiting rankings to judge talent when discussing players that have been in the program 3 plus years is unnecessary. I know what I see. Of course maybe you don’t watch much football and have a hard time gauging talent.

 

[RonJohn]

Is it an excuse to say we are the least talented team in P5? Maybe you think it is but most people agree with me.

That is the same excuse used for the Citadel game. I will say that over and over again when talent is brought up as the "sole" reason that GT isn't winning further down the season. People on this forum said the reason that GT lost the Citadel game was lack of talent. People on this forum said the reason that GT lost the Citadel game was lack of talent. People on this forum said the reason that GT lost the Citadel game was lack of talent. People on this forum said the reason that GT lost the Citadel game was lack of talent. People on this forum said the reason that GT lost the Citadel game was lack of talent.

Look at The Citadel's depth chart. GT has bigger, faster, and better players on both sides of the line. GT has much better skill players. There were coaching/motivation/scheme issues in that game. That loss had zero to do with talent. Yet people keep saying that talent is the only issue this year.

 

[Boaty1]

That is the same excuse used for the Citadel game. I will say that over and over again when talent is brought up as the "sole" reason that GT isn't winning further down the season. People on this forum said the reason that GT lost the Citadel game was lack of talent. People on this forum said the reason that GT lost the Citadel game was lack of talent. People on this forum said the reason that GT lost the Citadel game was lack of talent. People on this forum said the reason that GT lost the Citadel game was lack of talent. People on this forum said the reason that GT lost the Citadel game was lack of talent.

Look at The Citadel's depth chart. GT has bigger, faster, and better players on both sides of the line. GT has much better skill players. There were coaching/motivation/scheme issues in that game. That loss had zero to do with talent. Yet people keep saying that talent is the only issue this year.

That’s a fair point. They did have players that fit their system offensively however. I also view that game as a bit of a fluke. But yeah, no reason to lose that. I get it. It’s a shame that coaching had to play a factor in that game though.

 

[tmhunter52]

I hope this gets turned around before we stop being known as Yellow Jackets and start being known as Laughingstocks.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Not trying to be smart so I sincerely ask, do you not give any credence to the belief that transitioning away from the TO is the most difficult transition? It seems like you are acting as if the only thing changing is the coaching staff and not accounting for a complete scheme overhaul.

I was watching a rerun of the Louisville/FSU game middle of last week. The announcers asked the question which rebuild was more difficult between GT & Louisville. Both of them said firmly that the GT rebuild was far tougher. They said this despite the fact we beat the snot out of Louisville last year and had a far better record. That perspective sis certainly the dominant one around the country about the state of our program.

Now, you can argue that we are tearing it down in an attempt to build something greater. You may not think we needed to that. I for one thought it totally necessary and am excited at the possibility of a top 25 recruiting class this year. For me everything right now is about the future and I’m ok with tearing down what in my mind had become stale in hopes of a better tomorrow.

Go Jackets.

The only way it is a super difficult transition is if we try and force our current players to run a system that they are unable to. Every year as we get more different players in, we could gradually change the types of plays we run. It is an absolutely valid and defendable approach to rip the Band-Aid off and start the transition now. All I’m saying is there is no requirement to force yourself into a winless season by running plays that you are unable to.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

1. You just listed a bunch of defensive players and all were bottom of the barrel 4 stars except for the Swillings. Defense is not where our problem is.

2. Using recruiting rankings to judge talent when discussing players that have been in the program 3 plus years is unnecessary. I know what I see. Of course maybe you don’t watch much football and have a hard time gauging talent.

“Bottom of the barrel 4-stars”. That is a fantastic term!

Also, thanks for the personal attack.

 

[Boaty1]

The only way it is a super difficult transition is if we try and force our current players to run a system that they are unable to. Every year as we get more different players in, we could gradually change the types of plays we run. It is an absolutely valid and defendable approach to rip the Band-Aid off and start the transition now. All I’m saying is there is no requirement to force yourself into a winless season by running plays that you are unable to.

I disagree but I understand where you are coming from. Both directions for this year have risks. If you get a way from who you want to be going forward you lose your messaging to future recruits. We already saw Downs after we went with a run heavy approach against Clemson rip what we were trying to do.

On the other hand if you go 1-11 or 2-10, you run the risk of being branded a loser. I honestly believe Collins is in a situation where he can sustain the losses better than he can being branded as not moving far enough away from the option.

Keep in mind I’m not sure how many we would win this year doing anything other than 3o. The OL is just awful.

 

[Boaty1]

“Bottom of the barrel 4-stars”. That is a fantastic term!

Also, thanks for the personal attack.

1. If I attacked you I apologize. No reason for that. I went back and looked for the attack but didn’t see it but I could have missed it.

2. I just mean we didn’t have many Rivals 250 players for example. I get tired of seeing just talk about stars without understanding the depth of them. I’m sure you get it as you’ve been around for a while.

 

[RonJohn]

That’s a fair point. They did have players that fit their system offensively however. I also view that game as a bit of a fluke. But yeah, no reason to lose that. I get it. It’s a shame that coaching had to play a factor in that game though.

Talent level does need to be considered. People should consider the talent level and the lines, especially with the injuries on the OLine. However the Citadel game proved that it isn't the only issue this year. Just as people should consider the talent level, people should consider the coaching, motivation, and scheme. You shouldn't ignore coaching issues just as people shouldn't ignore talent. It seems to me that when people question decisions by the OC or HC, the automatic response from some is that the whole issue is talent.

 

[herb]

Also, thanks for the personal attack.

Ad hominem attacks are the last resort when you cannot defend your position

 

[Deleted member 2897]

1. If I attacked you apologize. No reason for that. I went back and looked for the attack but didn’t see it but I could have missed it.

2. I just mean we didn’t have many Rivals 250 players for example. I get tired of seeing just talk about stars without understanding the depth of them. I’m sure you get it as you’ve been around for a while.

“maybe you don’t watch much football and have a hard time gauging talent.”

There’s really 2 parts to this. First I do watch football and know how to gauge talent. Second, your underlying point about talent is correct.

 

[Boaty1]

“maybe you don’t watch much football and have a hard time gauging talent.”

There’s really 2 parts to this. First I do watch football and know how to gauge talent. Second, your underlying point about talent is correct.

I see how that came across that way. Way too direct on my part. I was actually being sincere in that some fans only watch their teams games and don’t have a good grasp of the overall landscape.

 

[danny daniel]

Not trying to be smart so I sincerely ask, do you not give any credence to the belief that transitioning away from the TO is the most difficult transition? It seems like you are acting as if the only thing changing is the coaching staff and not accounting for a complete scheme overhaul.

I was watching a rerun of the Louisville/FSU game middle of last week. The announcers asked the question which rebuild was more difficult between GT & Louisville. Both of them said firmly that the GT rebuild was far tougher. They said this despite the fact we beat the snot out of Louisville last year and had a far better record. That perspective sis certainly the dominant one around the country about the state of our program.

Now, you can argue that we are tearing it down in an attempt to build something greater. You may not think we needed to that. I for one thought it totally necessary and am excited at the possibility of a top 25 recruiting class this year. For me everything right now is about the future and I’m ok with tearing down what in my mind had become stale in hopes of a better tomorrow.

Go Jackets.

IMO the offensive "rebuild" is as tough as you want to make it. You can throw everything out and start with all new highly complicated "NFL"stuff or slowly transition to "NFL" stuff by going to gun and do a lot of things we are capable of (a la Fritz) in the short term. It seems we have chosen the former. Rebuild IS what you choose it to be.

 

[LibertyTurns]

That’s a fair point. They did have players that fit their system offensively however. I also view that game as a bit of a fluke. But yeah, no reason to lose that. I get it. It’s a shame that coaching had to play a factor in that game though.

The game was not a fluke. It was a wake up call to a staff that was completely unprepared and possibly incapable. Attention on the coaching staff’s capabilities would not be as big a focal point right now if they were a fraction of what they hyped themselves to be. It didn't have to be this way but they made their bed, now they’ve got to lie in it.

 

[Boaty1]

The game was not a fluke. It was a wake up call to a staff that was completely unprepared and possibly incapable. Attention on the coaching staff’s capabilities would not be as big a focal point right now if they were a fraction of what they hyped themselves to be. It didn't have to be this way but they made their bed, now they’ve got to lie in it.

The hype thing really ruffles some feathers around here. I get that many people on this board are successful professionals in their given field and are more results oriented by nature. But I hope people will remember the hype is not for you. It’s geared towards 16 & 17 yo kids. Collins methods are unconventional. As we saw with our last coach that type of thing is received well when winning and not received well at all when losing.

 

[Ibeeballin]

I know.
I understand that, but my fear is we lose recruits if we let this continue. We have to appear to know there is an issue and we are going to address it.

You think there was negative recruiting against PJ, just wait. The ACC is licking their chops. They can't wait to slam GT. Right now, it will be extremely easy to do.

What are they going to say any different than did this summer?

Honestly, the pros still outweigh the cons for recruit.

 

[GT_05]

The hype thing really ruffles some feathers around here. I get that many people on this board are successful professionals in their given field and are more results oriented by nature. But I hope people will remember the hype is not for you. It’s geared towards 16 & 17 yo kids. Collins methods are unconventional. As we saw with our last coach that type of thing is received well when winning and not received well at all when losing.

This is all true but I would think that even 16 and 17 year olds would think that this is odd behavior. GT celebrating on the field right now is like making out during a funeral...you just don’t do it.


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[AE 87]

Fwiw, GT was predicted to only win 3 games in 2008 by the "experts."

GT was expected to beat the Citadel this year.

@Ibeeballin went to a lot of trouble to show that two of our better, most experienced OL were having trouble knowing what to do so it's not talent.

After the Citadel game, CGC complained that they weren't showing the same keys as in previous games. We still gave up 2.5 ppd to them in the 2nd half.

Translation: he was out-coached.

We can expect a difficult transition AND better than we've seen so far. Anyone who thinks our O getting shut out by this year's Temple is an acceptable part of transition is trying too hard, imo.

 

[GTThor]

What are they going to say any different than did this summer?

Honestly, the pros still outweigh the cons for recruit.

"Look, I told you so!" "They suck and this is going to be ugly for a long time "!

Every game is ammunition for other schools.

I hate it.

Coach Collins is in over his head. This is bad. If anyone is to stubborn to identify this, it's sad.

This year is a waste. Don't let the following years be like this.