Spring game talk

[AE 87]

I don't get this whole best run/pass ability thing for LJ. We have only had a small sample size of the guys, and it's already been said that JJ throws the best ball. JJ had not practiced all week because of an injury, so I don't think the spring game was good to see his passing ability, but I feel that way for all the QB's, none of them really had time to do much in any aspect of our offense. Imo JJ will end up being the starter, but that's just me guess from comments I have heard on him.

That's why I said that so much of this early QB assessment entails a lot of confirmation bias, that is, seeing what you are predisposed to see for a variety of reasons. It's hard to parse, for myself included.

Comparing Jay and Luke in the T-Day game is tough given the difference in OL/Specialists that they were playing with.

So, you have your take. Other people have their take. Arguing over subjective impressions as if it's the same as arguing over facts will always be frustrating.

 

[Longestday]

The D was forcing the QB to keep. There were about 2 or 3 missed pitches but not many. The QBs were also not forcing the pitch.

I still hope MJ starts. The others need more time.

 

[kg01]

I don't get this whole best run/pass ability thing for LJ. We have only had a small sample size of the guys, and it's already been said that JJ throws the best ball. JJ had not practiced all week because of an injury, so I don't think the spring game was good to see his passing ability, but I feel that way for all the QB's, none of them really had time to do much in any aspect of our offense. Imo JJ will end up being the starter, but that's just me guess from comments I have heard on him.

I think it was said that JJ had the strongest arm. LJ threw some strong balls and a few with touch.

It's a small sample size, for sure, but what do you want us to do all offseason? Talk about the Barves?

 

[tech_wreck47]

I think it was said that JJ had the strongest arm. LJ threw some strong balls and a few with touch.

It's a small sample size, for sure, but what do you want us to do all offseason? Talk about the Barves?

The comment about JJ was something along the lines of, Jones throws the best ball, he can throw it 50 yards. Imo saying best ball goes for distance, accuracy etc. but we can talk about the draft or hawks over the braves lol.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Based on past history, Navy and GT, it appears CPJ likes a seasoned QB as the starter if possible. His preference seems to be two years in the system if he has the luxury. Whoever starts, I guarantee the other three will be more popular.

 

[Techster]

I don't get this whole best run/pass ability thing for LJ. We have only had a small sample size of the guys, and it's already been said that JJ throws the best ball. JJ had not practiced all week because of an injury, so I don't think the spring game was good to see his passing ability, but I feel that way for all the QB's, none of them really had time to do much in any aspect of our offense. Imo JJ will end up being the starter, but that's just me guess from comments I have heard on him.

LJ was recruited and signed to run this offense by our staff. If he didn't have the ability and willingness to run our offense, I highly doubt our coaches would have recruited him. In fact, LJ ran our offense in HS for a couple of years before his coaches pivoted to another offense to make use of his passing ability. I think too many on here are soured by the Vad experience that they do not see the forest for the trees. LJ isn't the runner JJ is, but LJ has running ability as evidenced by his 70 yard TD run.



IMO, his option game will be more in the mode of Tevin/Nesbitt/MJ. Direct North/South type runners with the ability to power for a few extra yards. The midline will be a weapon with LJ. JJ is more like JeT, he has the special ability to make people miss and turn something into nothing. We did not see much of the option game with LJ during the spring game, I think that's because CPJ knew the OLine wasn't capable of the necessary blocking. LJ was in constant duress every snap. That may be why CPJ had JJ run with the first team because he didn't want to risk further injury to JJ as JJ was scheduled to split second team snaps with LJ, and Chase was suppose to run first team with Taquan.

Throwing "the best ball" does not make someone a good passer. Nesbitt threw a good ball...but no one is going to say he was a better passer than JeT. It was evident that JJ has some accuracy issues, and throws the ball at one speed. His passing ability does not yet have the nuance that LJ does.

At the end of the day, it will come down to who runs our offense the best...and that means our entire playbook both running AND passing. It's easy to see that JJ has home run ability on any given option play, but CPJ has mentioned on more than one occassion that JJ's ability also gets him into trouble as much as it wows you. IMO, it's kind of the conundrum of that we had with Mills and Marshall. Mills didn't have the home run ability that Marshall had, but Mills would give you a consistent 3+ yards that kept the offense moving, and the 15+ yard mack truck runs interspersed. Marshall had homerun ability on any given play, but he also had plays with zero and negative yards and his blocking ability was not up to coach's standards. The guy consistent guy who had some big play ability won out over the guy with homerun ability but inconsistent production.

The JJ v LJ debate is a good thing. Both are very good players with unique skillsets. In terms of talent, this is what is referred to as "a rich person's problem". Better to be too talented at QB than bereft of talent. Whoever wins out is going to be a VERY good QB for us.

 

[Boomergump]

There is a lot of water to go under the bridge yet in this battle. Who knows the rate that any of these guys will develop. It may end up being that JJ just can't make decisions on the field and continues to have crippling fumblitis. I sure hope not and really don't think it will be the case, but players still have to prove it. The spring game is way too small a sample to make sweeping conclusions about long term things. However, it sure was neat to get a glimpse of the potential in each of these candidates. All of us surely can remember spring games where everybody looked clueless and we wondered if we would ever score against a P5 defense. The exciting news is that we are well beyond those days now.

 

[SlawDog]

I thought we may have missed several reads at the game but after watching the film I only saw one really bad pitch read. Most of the time it was a good no pitch even though the play may not have gained much.

Most of the time it looked 'QB sweep' which I don't recall seeing very much in the past

 

[Eastman]

So some people want more passing and hope LJ is Vad 2.0 and others like me would pay to watch JJ run around even when it may be in the wrong direction. Others may want Nesbitt 2.0 out of M.J. My not so bold prediction is that most snaps this year will be taken by QBs whose last names start with Jo unless it is TM. The starter will be chosen by a coach whose last name also starts with a Jo. He will base those decisions on extensive experience, numerous data points and factors I am unaware of and I am good with that. The fact that LJ and JJ are just redshirt freshmen makes me think that will be the biggest factor in their playing time but also the reason I am so excited for the future..

What I am also aware of is that this type of QB discussion is so much more fun than the "If JeT" gets hurt (and he will get hurt because we all know he is just too small!) what will we do?" discussions from the past. The general mood seems to have become more positive and I just hope that is reflected in attendance and performance on the field leading up to the dwags being stomped at BDS.

 

[danny daniel]

I thought we may have missed several reads at the game but after watching the film I only saw one really bad pitch read. Most of the time it was a good no pitch even though the play may not have gained much.

I agree. I went through the same thinking that we should have pitched more. Sometimes the D had the pitch at least partially covered and sometimes it just seemed the pitch relationship (our fast QBs outrunning the AB) was not right. I am still concerned about the pitch because MJ has had this issue discussed about him in the past. We just did not see the typical CPJ TO in the Spring Game. We did however see promise and excitement.

 

[tech_wreck47]

LJ was recruited and signed to run this offense by our staff. If he didn't have the ability and willingness to run our offense, I highly doubt our coaches would have recruited him. In fact, LJ ran our offense in HS for a couple of years before his coaches pivoted to another offense to make use of his passing ability. I think too many on here are soured by the Vad experience that they do not see the forest for the trees. LJ isn't the runner JJ is, but LJ has running ability as evidenced by his 70 yard TD run.



IMO, his option game will be more in the mode of Tevin/Nesbitt/MJ. Direct North/South type runners with the ability to power for a few extra yards. The midline will be a weapon with LJ. JJ is more like JeT, he has the special ability to make people miss and turn something into nothing. We did not see much of the option game with LJ during the spring game, I think that's because CPJ knew the OLine wasn't capable of the necessary blocking. LJ was in constant duress every snap. That may be why CPJ had JJ run with the first team because he didn't want to risk further injury to JJ as JJ was scheduled to split second team snaps with LJ, and Chase was suppose to run first team with Taquan.

Throwing "the best ball" does not make someone a good passer. Nesbitt threw a good ball...but no one is going to say he was a better passer than JeT. It was evident that JJ has some accuracy issues, and throws the ball at one speed. His passing ability does not yet have the nuance that LJ does.

At the end of the day, it will come down to who runs our offense the best...and that means our entire playbook both running AND passing. It's easy to see that JJ has home run ability on any given option play, but CPJ has mentioned on more than one occassion that JJ's ability also gets him into trouble as much as it wows you. IMO, it's kind of the conundrum of that we had with Mills and Marshall. Mills didn't have the home run ability that Marshall had, but Mills would give you a consistent 3+ yards that kept the offense moving, and the 15+ yard mack truck runs interspersed. Marshall had homerun ability on any given play, but he also had plays with zero and negative yards and his blocking ability was not up to coach's standards. The guy consistent guy who had some big play ability won out over the guy with homerun ability but inconsistent production.

The JJ v LJ debate is a good thing. Both are very good players with unique skillsets. In terms of talent, this is what is referred to as "a rich person's problem". Better to be too talented at QB than bereft of talent. Whoever wins out is going to be a VERY good QB for us.

I never said LJ couldn't run this offense (not sure if that's what your first comment was about) I think he is a guy that could run the offense. And you say it's evident JJ had accuracy issues? Based on what, one game, where he hadn't practiced all week. that's not really a fair assessment about him with such a small sample size. And you use Nesbit and JT as an example but they didn't play together and have a teammate say one throw the BEST ball over the other. How else do you interpret "he throws the BEST ball" that's not an indicator that he can throw it far, I take it for what it actually says, and it says he throws the BEST ball. You are correct about Nesbit and JT, they both threw good balls, but JT threw the BEST ball, same thing that was said about JJ. People are taking the comment of he throws the BEST ball and trying to figure out from what aspect, distance, tight spiral, accuracy etc, why can't we just take it for what it says as a whole and not read to much into it? If someone came to you and said hey player A throws a better ball than player B and you had not seen them throw who would you say is the better passer? I think because of the spring game people are saying oh it has to mean distance or something else but they only got a small sample size from a guy that was injured and didn't practice all week. Imo that's just looking to much into it, when if no one saw them play idk if this would even be a discussion. Jmo though. But like you said the starter will be whoever is running the plays the best with reads throwing etc. and I'm confident CPJ will have the right guy on the field.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

My not so bold prediction is that most snaps this year will be taken by QBs whose last names start with Jo unless it is TM

How prescient of you. You are quite the sage.

 

[stech81]

Here is what I learned about this Spring game and past Spring games. (...............................nothing ) Its a control scrimmage most coaches are not going to show anything. So what do we get out of spring games ? A way to kill a few hours, and a opportunity to debate which QB needs to start for they next 4 months which is better than talking and debating about uniforms.
Wait till fall practice starts and then we will find out which QB will start.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I see the "backup-qb-lovefest" is in full swing as usual.

Reads and ball security, the two most important skills for our qb, are still huge question marks. Let's put away the annointing oils for a little bit.

 

[Boomergump]

In terms of passing, I didn't see anything from JJ in the spring game that obviously shows he is a developed passer. I saw arm strength though. Heck, Nesbitt had wonderful arm strength, but the accuracy and touch dept was lacking. It could have just been a bad day for JJ, or it could be that he has a ton of work to do. It is hard to know based on a few plays in a chaotic spring game situation. LJ showed me that he throws with touch. The sample size for him is small too and he didn't have a great day throwing either for that matter. So, reaching sweeping conclusions isn't really warranted. Based only on what we were able to see for that short time, LJ gives me the impression (and it is just an impression) that he may be a bit further along as a passer.

In terms of running, both LJ and JJ impressed me. LJ had more speed than I was anticipating. That is a great thing. I am not sure how much wiggle or toughness there is, but he can run on green grass and pull away for sure. My guess is that we would get similar results with him running as Vad with maybe just a little less power. JJ, on the other hand, looks like an elite runner in every sense of the word. I would not like to be out there trying to bring him down, especially if there is space. All the elements of an elite ball carrier seem to be in place. Remember what Peter Warrick used to look like for FSU? That is what JJ reminds me of. His change of direction and anticipation of what tacklers are trying to do is uncanny. He runs with great knee lift and leverage as well making him seem bigger than he is. My sense is that he could still run midline and give us a boost we have been missing inside for the last few years.

I would hate to take a step back from where we have been in terms of QB accuracy during JT's time. My hope is that we can, at least, keep the bar were it is with the next guy.

 

[Eastman]

How prescient of you. You are quite the sage.

I am better at covering my bases than being sagacious.

 

[GTech63]

I see the "backup-qb-lovefest" is in full swing as usual.

Reads and ball security, the two most important skills for our qb, are still huge question marks. Let's put away the annointing oils for a little bit.

You are correct about ball security and reads which still is a ? for MJ but anointing oils?? This is nothing like the Vad Lee next messiah discussions. This is a discussion of the various skills we have at a deep position of QB and what strengths and roles they may play. Even have been comparing to past CPJ QBs since he has been here.

 

[vamosjackets]

My $.02.
Not much that hasn't been said. I think we can win with any of our 4 QB's. The offense will look a bit different with each one. It's such a temptation to assume that a younger guy has something that an older guy doesn't. I'm not sure why that is, really. You've got to think Taquan has shown a lot to CPJ this Spring for CPJ to be high on him and have him ahead of the two young'uns right now. And, MJ was ahead of Taquan in CPJ's mind. All that being said, I'm going to give in to the temptation and confess that it does appear to me that the two young'uns have a higher ceiling. It's amazing to have this "problem" and a shame that only 1 guy may end up being the man. It reminds me a little of JT and Byerly. Tim Byerly could've been a very successful starting QB for us, and I would've enjoyed seeing what the offense could've been with him. But, JT's talent took that off of the table. If we have injuries at the position, we'll be very thankful for this situation. I really could see CPJ playing multiple guys, especially at the beginning of the season. Even though that hasn't been the MO of his tenure, he's shown he will do it with the Vad/Tevin year, and I really don't think he's ever quite been in this situation at QB in his career - 4 guys who your offense can win with, 4 guys who are dynamic.

The one thing I will add to the comparisons is that I didn't think it was fair to categorize JJones as having more ball security issues than LJohnson. Lucas had a bad fumble as well, but was extremely fortunate that the ball bounced right back into his hands as he was going to the ground. Lucas also threw an INT, IIRC. So, the ball security issues were equal, imo.

Also, and others have been saying this later in the conversation, I thought the non-pitches were mostly the right call by the QB and were a very good sign of ball-security. The defense was playing the pitch pretty strongly whether due to missed blocks or whatever. If the QB didn't pitch, it was usually because there was a defender already there and it would've been dangerous to do so.

I liked what CPJ said about Lucas. He doesn't get rattled or bothered by stuff, he just goes and plays. That's a big compliment. And, that kind of an intangible thing could very well be what it comes down to. Who would you pick? Mike Vick, Joe Montana, Randall Cunningham, or Steve Young? In some ways, that's a tough decision, but in others, it's easy. You pick the guy who wins over the guy who's got the most sheer ability. I do believe there's an "IT" factor, particularly at the QB position. It's a mind/will thing. Who has more of the magic factor, the clutch factor? We've got great athletes at that spot. Who can be the leader of men and can be clutch in the fire? Ability certainly helps.

Another interesting component of the spring game was who made plays. I saw #73 on defense making a lot of plays. Had to look him up - Tyler Vernon, RSF, walk-on DE from Gwinnett County - owns the #1 and #2 spots for his high school's sack record (junior year #2, senior year #1), and game high for sacks. Could be a no-hype hero, love to see that. And, then another walk-on had the pick against Lucas - Bryce Vickers.

Was happy with the defense. Defense has been strong over its last several outings. That's a great reason for hope. Simmons really looks legit. Maybe our next great pass rusher, haven't had one since Attaochu, and that's what we're missing most, imo, since Tenuta (getting after QB's). Come on CTR, I'm pulling for you and your boys!

Where was Dolphus? Was he hurt? What about Kagawa? I've always been impressed with how much impact he makes when he's in, but didn't see him in the game?

Nothing to add that hasn't already been said about BB, AB, OL, LB, etc.

 

[OldJacketFan]

I liked what CPJ said about Lucas. He doesn't get rattled or bothered by stuff, he just goes and plays. That's a big compliment. And, that kind of an intangible thing could very well be what it comes down to. Who would you pick?

This speaks volumes to me.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

You are correct about ball security and reads which still is a ? for MJ but anointing oils?? This is nothing like the Vad Lee next messiah discussions. This is a discussion of the various skills we have at a deep position of QB and what strengths and roles they may play. Even have been comparing to past CPJ QBs since he has been here.

I wasn't referring to MJ.