So, who starts next year...

[dressedcheeseside]

I know we've tangled here before. I think we learned it at WR, despite mostly never having Summers, but I also think that was the most predictable dropoff given it was NFL talent that left.

We never learned what the 1st and 2nd string replacements at AB and BB would have done this year due to injuries. I think we would have seen more big plays, and so does CPJ.

It's not just comparing the last two seasons. The guys who made up the 2014 B and Aback corps made huge leaps in production their senior years. Most of those guys hadn't done much of anything before then. Guys like Zenon, Bostic made huge leaps.

Days is an interesting story with many opinions. Fact is, he didn't reach his potential until he got the bulk of the reps. He also had Laskey showing him the ropes. I wish MM had Laskey showing him the ropes this year.

Our NFL wr's improved their draft stock, if they even had one prior, in their senior seasons.

Looking at the kinds of mistakes our Abacks made this year, it's pretty easy to conclude lack of experience was a major contributing factor.

 

[CuseJacket]

It's not just comparing the last two seasons. The guys who made up the 2014 B and Aback corps made huge leaps in production their senior years. Most of those guys hadn't done much of anything before then. Guys like Zenon, Bostic made huge leaps.

Days is an interesting story with many opinions. Fact is, he didn't reach his potential until he got the bulk of the reps. He also had Laskey showing him the ropes. I wish MM had Laskey showing him the ropes this year.

Our NFL wr's improved their draft stock, if they even had one prior, in their senior seasons.

Looking at the kinds of mistakes our Abacks made this year, it's pretty easy to conclude lack of experience was a major contributing factor.

What you're saying isn't mutually exclusive with my position, and I think you're ignoring mine. I think last year's 3rd string AB and BB, senior or otherwise, were likely to make more mistakes and be less efficient in the open field too.

I really don't think we'll have to wait for the current crop to be seniors to pay dividends. That's a scary thought and one I don't think even you agree with. If that is true we should scrap the system.

Smelter was who he was two years in, if not his first year. Maybe you're making the same claim about Days? I can't tell. Athleticism can make any offense look better than it is.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

What you're saying isn't mutually exclusive with my position, and I think you're ignoring mine. I think last year's 3rd string AB and BB, senior or otherwise, were likely to make more mistakes and be less efficient in the open field too.

I really don't think we'll have to wait for the current crop to be seniors to pay dividends. That's a scary thought and one I don't think even you agree with. If that is true we should scrap the system. Smelter was who he was two years in, if not his first year. Maybe you're making the same claim about Days? I can't tell.

History suggests you need lots of reps in this offense to be successful. A very small handful of guys have been really good without a ton of reps. Smelter is one but he showed significant improvement after gaining reps. Dwyer is another, but the offence was significantly dumber in those days as were the defenses we played against.

 

[LongforDodd]

If you don't think that Lynch got a lot of tough yards, you were not paying attention. I can think of runs vs Fl St., Miami, and NC off the top of my head.

You said that he didn't "Make plays' and also said "He put himself in position and found open spaces both running and receiving.".... putting yourself in a position to find open space is what making a play is....

Yes, Lynch was overall more productive than MLD. I think he sees the field a lot next year and if he doesn't, then whoever replaces him will be quite impressive.

 

[CuseJacket]

History suggests you need lots of reps in this offense to be successful. A very small handful of guys have been really good without a ton of reps. Smelter is one but he showed significant improvement after gaining reps. Dwyer is another, but the offence was significantly dumber in those days as were the defenses we played against.

I agree, and I'll take 100 first-year Smelters over this year's Summers/Jeune combo. Maybe over next year's as well. Give me that inexperienced athlete over the latter guys with multiple years in the system. That's my point - there's an undefinable tipping point of risk/reward when it comes to athleticism and experience.

We had guys with more athleticism expected to play this year (and frankly more reps to your point, though not game reps). They did not play. I would have rather tested the theory with a healthy Searcy/Cottrell than Lynch/Willis. And Lynch did ok considering he was 6th or 7th in the rotation. I'm not sure if he proves or disproves the point. Perhaps the offense is capable of churning with 1st and RS-1st year players if you're playing those who are "game ready" without the prerequisite experience.

In the end I don't believe we got an answer. I wish we could have tested the theory with our best available, not those who would have been on the bench regardless of system or seniority.

 

[CuseJacket]

I posted in another thread - my projected starting ABs next year are Green and Searcy. I think Cottrell, Griffin, and Lynch will join them in the main rotation. Willis would be situational despite his experience this year. MLD would redshirt.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I agree, and I'll take 100 first-year Smelters over this year's Summers/Jeune combo. Maybe over next year's as well. Give me that inexperienced athlete over the latter guys with multiple years in the system. That's my point - there's an undefinable tipping point of risk/reward when it comes to athleticism and experience.

We had guys with more athleticism expected to play this year (and frankly more reps to your point, though not game reps). They did not play. I would have rather tested the theory with a healthy Searcy/Cottrell than Lynch/Willis. And Lynch did ok considering he was 6th or 7th in the rotation. I'm not sure if he proves or disproves the point. Perhaps the offense is capable of churning with 1st and RS-1st year players if you're playing those who are "game ready" without the prerequisite experience.

In the end I don't believe we got an answer. I wish we could have tested the theory with our best available, not those who would have been on the bench regardless of system or seniority.

The only data point we can look to is Searcy vs. ND before he got hurt. Not much but deer in headlights.

MM is another kid with great athleticism and minimal experience. My guess is he'll be loads better in the next few years, especially in his quickness to the hole and blocking. The biggest thing I'm looking forward to is crisp, quick and fast execution with proper spacing and timing in all things from pitch relationship to ball security to cut blocking. Oh and always going the right way will be a nice plus, too.

 

[CuseJacket]

The only data point we can look to is Searcy vs. ND before he got hurt. Not much but deer in headlights.

MM is another kid with great athleticism and minimal experience. My guess is he'll be loads better in the next few years, especially in his quickness to the hole and blocking. The biggest thing I'm looking forward to is crisp, quick and fast execution with proper spacing and timing in all things from pitch relationship to ball security to cut blocking. Oh and always going the right way will be a nice plus, too.

I agree everyone will get better with reps, no doubt.

And you're right, there wasn't enough data this year. Notre Dame could have been a harbinger of things to come. Or the offense could have gotten better during the course of the year, just like last year with our senior-laden skill players.

And I wish we had our #1 and #2 BB from spring, equally inexperienced from a game reps perspective, despite MM's potential. I definitely don't think putting the load of the offense on fall enrollees is a recipe for success unless we start getting Dwyers and Fournettes regularly.

 

[okiemon]

I definitely don't think putting the load of the offense on fall enrollees is a recipe for success unless we start getting Dwyers and Fournettes regularly.

I don't see that happening, do you? Has CPJ gotten even one Dwyer or Fournette since he started recruiting here?

 

[CuseJacket]

I don't see that happening, do you? Has CPJ gotten even one Dwyer or Fournette since he started recruiting here?

No, but in fairness most teams haven't gotten Dwyers or Fourettes since CPJ started recruiting here.

I think Leggett and Quaide were more prepared to carry the load than MM this year despite MM's strengths.

I'm most uncertain about the BB rotation next year. It seems logical MM has to be unseated. I'm hoping for a competitive platoon a la 2014.

 

[takethepoints]

I don't see that happening, do you? Has CPJ gotten even one Dwyer or Fournette since he started recruiting here?

He seems to think so: Custis. But, unfortunately, that didn't work out.

He also likes Mills a whole lot. We'll see on that.

 

[Boomergump]

If you don't think that Lynch got a lot of tough yards, you were not paying attention. I can think of runs vs Fl St., Miami, and NC off the top of my head.

You said that he didn't "Make plays' and also said "He put himself in position and found open spaces both running and receiving.".... putting yourself in a position to find open space is what making a play is....

Well, I was paying attention, very closely in fact, watching EVERY PLAY of the the season at least 10 times in slo mo watching what each player does. It is what led me to the conclusion I stated. It is fine if we have different opinions on the guy. Mine is quite positive but limited. I hope you are more right than I am. Also, I will add, that I think you misunderstood what I meant by "making a play". Maybe I wasn't articulate enough. Lynch was the most assignment sound AB we put on the field this year. He put himself in the right places most of the time and reaped what the system provides. That is pretty good. If he was gifted with a ton of grass, he made the yards, but he rarely willed his way to 8 yards when the system provided 4, if that makes sense. That is what I meant by "making a play". We didn't make a lot of people miss or pound out tough yards at the position this year. I am hoping for more Robbie Godhigh or Orwin Smith type of yards next season.

 

[Techster]

Regarding Clinton Lynch "making plays. It's simple:

What's the biggest play you can make in football? Scoring a TD.
Clinton Lynch scored the most TDs of anyone on our team not named Justin Thomas.

As a receiver?
The 2nd most receiving yardage on the team, #1 by an AB. The highest yards per catch on the team 24.8 (well, excluding Taquan Marshall who only had 3 catches). 2nd leading receiver on the team, #1 by an AB.

As a running back?
3rd leading rusher on the team by total yardage, #1 by an AB. #1 overall in yards per carry overall.

Total offense?
#2 overall behind JeT.

I may be wrong here, but those numbers, consitently among the top of team in several categories, strongly indicates someone "making plays" on a consistent basis. That's just me though...

 

[Longestday]

Lynch made some tough yards. Early on he had trouble with some rocket toss plays (he was too focused on the inside). He got better as the season progress at the rocket toss. Lynch did make some decent yards after contact. He was always fighting for 1 to 5 more yards. If I would fault him, it would be not "missing" the tough yards to break out for more long runs. Lynch is your strong AB that can run, block, and receive. He has excellent hands. He will not break your anckles, but I believe he is more then "solid".

 

[alagold]

Regarding Clinton Lynch "making plays. It's simple:

What's the biggest play you can make in football? Scoring a TD.
Clinton Lynch scored the most TDs of anyone on our team not named Justin Thomas.

As a receiver?
The 2nd most receiving yardage on the team, #1 by an AB. The highest yards per catch on the team 24.8 (well, excluding Taquan Marshall who only had 3 catches). 2nd leading receiver on the team, #1 by an AB.

As a running back?
3rd leading rusher on the team by total yardage, #1 by an AB. #1 overall in yards per carry overall.

Total offense?
#2 overall behind JeT.

I may be wrong here, but those numbers, consitently among the top of team in several categories, strongly indicates someone "making plays" on a consistent basis. That's just me though...

Even without the numbers, Lynch MAXIMIZED his ability more than ANY guy on Offense to me.I never would have thought he was that good.

 

[AE 87]

Okay, so we definitely have to deal with selective memory and perception bias. Some of the back and forth, imo, needs to cool its assuredness (it's a word--I just used it) as a result.

In my opinion, we're going to see the results of some straight talk this spring. I'll try and move from least to most controversial.
QB: JT plus MJ and TM and new guys. Straight Talk: You need to work on passing footwork as well as option footwork. Just throwing it doesn't work.
WRs: Jeune, Stewart, Philpott, Howell, Messick. Straight Talk: You've got to block better.
A-Backs: we have a nice crop of some high potential guys. Straight Talk: competition over who does not red-shirt their sophomore year. I don't know who wins the battles but Cottrell and Green have their redshirt years behind them and are expected to contribute. I predict Searcy, Lynch, M L-D, and Griffin are in the rotation behind them first.
B-Backs: I like Marcus Allen and think that he would have been great for us if he could've stayed healthy. I suspect that he may graduate and move on before next season. Straight Talk -- You've got to do all things well if you want to start, not just carry the ball well in the open field. I predict Leggett, Quaide, Marshall and Benson will have a good competition. One of them may move positions.
OL: Straight Talk: Get Fit and Keep your Eyes Open or move to DL (okay, I was going to say more here, but I think you get my drift).

 

[awbuzz]

@AE 87 has some good points that I can't argue against.

Can hardly wait for some spring practice to start shaking of of the details out.

 

[Skeptic]

Leggett, from what I hear, is not on par with Marshall, Fro, and Mills - the top 3.

Some big ifs, but: if Marshall becomes somewhat acceptable as a blocker -- as was Dwyer -- and learns the Pop Warner lesson of tucking the ball high and tight and anticipate the hits, he is going to be an incredible Bback. If he doesn't, well so much for potential.

 

[Ibeeballin]

My mind is wondering....

So what do you guys think about moving Keshun to SLB with Anree at the starting WDE in our 4-3 look?

I wonder also if Lynn will move back to defense, particularly FS, to solidify that spot.

After the UGA, I would prefer we move Austin to CB and have the bigger Step Durham at Nickel.

Saw on the pay site, there is the thought of TJ Barning Shamire Devine by switching him to NT. Hell naw

 

[1979jacket]

The more I think about next year, the more I expect some big changes on the lines. Maybe same players but at different spots. Devine on dline might be worth a try. Moving Burden to guard and installing a different center. Maybe moving some of the others around. CPJ probably has some ideas. Burden on defense could even be a try.

The secondary could be interesting - Gray will start at safety and Durham somewhere. He may have grown into a nickelback as opposed to a cornerback. Besides those two, I think it may be a surprise with who ends up back there.

The oline and secondary will be the most important - not A and B back.