So what did Joseph do?

[ESPNjacket]

It doesn’t sound good for the AD and the firm he contracted with to investigate the matter.

How so? There seem to be a lot of conclusions being drawn from little information throughout this thread.

 

[Southpawmac]

How so? There seem to be a lot of conclusions being drawn from little information throughout this thread.

Yeah I agree. Joseph saying the guy "seemed inexperienced" is her just trying to blame anyone but herself.

 

[MWBATL]

How so? There seem to be a lot of conclusions being drawn from little information throughout this thread.

Dude...it's the internet!

 

[LongforDodd]

You know...think about it...this is all because a couple of young ladies didn't like being yelled at by their coach. What a waste of time and money.

 

[mstranahan]

I’m curious if anyone knows how much money the women’s basketball program brings in versus how much it costs to operate. It seems to me that the program would be lucky to break even and now we are learning that GT will likely end up in court and could end up paying damages. Does the potential exposure from small athletic programs outweigh the benefits?

As long as Title IX is on the books, schools have to "provide equitable opportunity" to play for both men & women. Football is exempt.

1. Scholarships: Title IX requires that female and male student-athletes receive athletics scholarship dollars proportional to their participation; and
2. Other benefits: Title IX requires the equal treatment of female and male student-athletes in the provisions of: (a) equipment and supplies; (b) scheduling of games and practice times; (c) travel and daily allowance/per diem; (d) access to tutoring; (e) coaching, (f) locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities; (g) medical and training facilities and services; (h) housing and dining facilities and services; (i) publicity and promotions; (j) support services and (k) recruitment of student-athletes.

 

[Sarrick]

You know...think about it...this is all because a couple of young ladies didn't like being yelled at by their coach. What a waste of time and money.

Look,

I’m on the young side so I’m might not have the same opinions as a lot of the board here, but if the language used to Coach Jo in the reports is accurate, then it is grounds for firing. I don’t care what was acceptable in the past, how others had been treated. That is not an acceptable way to treat people who you are supposed to be leading and encouraging and trying to make better. End of story.

 

[KeystoneJacket]

So who do we go after and hire?

Some mid-major names I like:

Aaron Roussell, Bucknell - Has had a great run in seven years there, building that program. Won 28 games this year, but is losing four senior starters.
Tricia Fabbri, Quinnipiac - Has turned that program into a top mid-major. Has been there since 1995 so maybe she's content. Think Penn State might make a run at her.
Dawn Plitzuweit, South Dakota - 80-22 in three seasons after four winning seasons at Northern Kentucky. One of the top-ranked mid-majors.

Not sure if they are going to swing higher but I like that group.

 

[GT_05]

As long as Title IX is on the books, schools have to "provide equitable opportunity" to play for both men & women. Football is exempt.

1. Scholarships: Title IX requires that female and male student-athletes receive athletics scholarship dollars proportional to their participation; and
2. Other benefits: Title IX requires the equal treatment of female and male student-athletes in the provisions of: (a) equipment and supplies; (b) scheduling of games and practice times; (c) travel and daily allowance/per diem; (d) access to tutoring; (e) coaching, (f) locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities; (g) medical and training facilities and services; (h) housing and dining facilities and services; (i) publicity and promotions; (j) support services and (k) recruitment of student-athletes.

My thought is that if WBB barely breaks even or loses money, is this exposure worth having the program. It looks like they don’t have to offer WBB just because they offer MBB. Regardless, it was just a passing thought. Surely there are other programs, men and women, that are in the same boat.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/inclusion/title-ix-frequently-asked-questions#athletics


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[Buzzbomb]

My thought is that if WBB barely breaks even or loses money, is this exposure worth having the program. It looks like they don’t have to offer WBB just because they offer MBB. Regardless, it was just a passing thought. Surely there are other programs, men and women, that are in the same boat.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/inclusion/title-ix-frequently-asked-questions#athletics


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Are you proposing we substitute them out with Women’s LaCrosse or whatever sport is left to pick up in the A.C.C.? Just asking, not trying to be smart about it. I’ve followed the Team since Benny Dees was H.C.

Hearing a rumor today that this gentleman could be interviewed when Georgetown is finished with the W.N.I.T.:
https://guhoyas.com/coaches.aspx?rc=446&path=wbball
://guhoyas.com/coaches.aspx?rc=446&path=wbball

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

You know...think about it...this is all because a couple of young ladies didn't like being yelled at by their coach. What a waste of time and money.

A couple left the team, but, according to what was released, EVERY player on the team had complained about the treatment.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Look,

I’m on the young side so I’m might not have the same opinions as a lot of the board here, but if the language used to Coach Jo in the reports is accurate, then it is grounds for firing. I don’t care what was acceptable in the past, how others had been treated. That is not an acceptable way to treat people who you are supposed to be leading and encouraging and trying to make better. End of story.

The Northern Kentucky coach is facing the same allegations ... mistreatment of players. That is under investigation now.

 

[mstranahan]

My thought is that if WBB barely breaks even or loses money, is this exposure worth having the program. It looks like they don’t have to offer WBB just because they offer MBB.

Title IX doesn't say the school has to offer the same sports, however, it would be a very difficult case to argue that women's lax or other non-rev sport is an equivalent opportunity with men's hoops. As a general rule, if you offer a men's revenue sport (except football), you have to also offer the women's sport

 

[Animal02]

How so? There seem to be a lot of conclusions being drawn from little information throughout this thread.

If both side allegations are true....she used bad words against players, and GTAA did not treat the men's and women's teams equally, GTAA will lose big.

 

[presjacket]

Yeah I agree. Joseph saying the guy "seemed inexperienced" is her just trying to blame anyone but herself.

Before I read Coach Joseph's response, I had looked up the Investigator and my first thought was that he seems inexperienced. Here is official bio. He has been a lawyer for 5 years.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I stand by my $75M lawsuit with a $5-10M settlement although GT’s release of that report coupled with Joseph’s response complicates matters & not in a good way for GT. It could go north of that without much trouble.

 

[Animal02]

I stand by my $75M lawsuit with a $5-10M settlement although GT’s release of that report coupled with Joseph’s response complicates matters & not in a good way for GT. It could go north of that without much trouble.

The question is, how much of this gets tied back to TStan? If he ultimately is the one that signed off on different standards for the men's and women's teams (if the allegation are true) he will not last long.

 

[RonJohn]

The question is, how much of this gets tied back to TStan? If he ultimately is the one that signed off on different standards for the men's and women's teams (if the allegation are true) he will not last long.

What actual allegations of different standards are being raised? The document provided by Joseph's lawyer says that she complained that Joseph complained that:

• The WBB assistant coaches don't make as much as the men's assistant coaches.
• WBB isn't marketed as much as men't
• The locker room isn't as good
• The travel isn't as good

Later in the document it is alleged that someone(an administrator) denied a request for some sophomore players to live off campus even though some men's sophomores live off campus. The document says that the request was later granted.
​

I don't believe that Title IV requires that coaches of women's programs make the same amount of money as coaches of men's teams. I don't believe it requires that athletic departments market women's programs as much as men's programs. I would say that at least from my standpoint, it appears that GT markets the women's basketball program quite a bit. The locker rooms for women's and men's basketball are neither one in good shape. TStan has been working on getting money raised to fix both of the programs' locker rooms. I don't know what he travel arrangements for either program are, so I can't comment on whether one is better than the other or by what margin if they are.

The thing that sticks out most to me are the statements about the girls who complained. TStan says that two players complained to GTAA legal about Joseph. According to TStan he had no knowledge of any wrongdoing or accusations before the complaint. According to Joseph, TStan and the administrator both showed up at Virginia game and one of them had "conversations" with her players. She insinuates that these "conversations" led to the complaints. If the players went to GTAA legal without prodding from the GTAA, then Joseph's argument is pretty much broken. If TStan or someone from the GTAA pushed the players to go to legal, then TStan's arguments are greatly weakened.

It is worth noting that the complaint about the investigator compares him to Ken Waintein who conducted investigation into the academic scandal at UNC. A personnel matter vs an issue that affected not only the athletic department at UNC, but the entire university. That is similar to complaints that GT's QB isn't good enough. Look the Patriots have Tom Brady, why can't we use someone like him.

We haven't seen the GT report on Joseph, and likely never will. The response by Joseph's lawyer is vague in the allegations of gender inequality. I expect that Joseph will be trying to get a settlement out of GT, and that this will all be resolved by lawyer negotiations. I would assume that this was expected by the GTAA which brings up the question: If there is nothing to the complaints and investigation, why didn't TStan just wait until the end of the season and fire her? That would have been less expensive to the GTAA.

EDIT: I take that back, portions of the report are posted online. I am about to read as much of it as I can.

 

[RonJohn]

I do think it is interesting from the report that all 13 of the current players were interviewed. 9 of the 13 said they do not trust anyone on the coaching staff. All 13 said that they do not trust Joseph.

 

[orientalnc]

My thought is that if WBB barely breaks even or loses money, is this exposure worth having the program. It looks like they don’t have to offer WBB just because they offer MBB. Regardless, it was just a passing thought. Surely there are other programs, men and women, that are in the same boat.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/inclusion/title-ix-frequently-asked-questions#athletics


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What it does not say is that colleges have to pay their coaches the same for men's and women's basketball and it does not say that the women's team coaches can treat their players exactly like the men's team coaches treat their players. WBB at almost every college is losing money compared to the ticket revenue. That is OK. College sports should not be on a revenue neutral basis. The same can be said for men's tennis and baseball.

I hate this discussion, yet I am drawn to it. Yuck!!!

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't the football/basketball players have to show that they, either individually or as a team, felt they were victimized by the coach in order for their to be an apples to apples comparison? In other words, Johnson likely yelled a lot and, early on, grabbed some players by their facemasks. He was likely told to cool it on doing that as it was a bad look for him and the school. As far as we know, no player went to the Administration or media stating that they felt victimized by his tactics. Conversely, the ENTIRE team feels victimized by how Coach Joseph was treating players and staff. I would think anyone would forgive an instance or two and give a coach the chance to change their behavior, but it seems like this was not stop relentless demeaning behavior towards players and staff. If it was a one off, likely not a big deal, but the evidence is pretty damning when your whole team basically says they felt victimized by her.

And would commentary from a player (Vitakunis?) who got unnecessarily put in harm's way over 20 years ago really indicate that GT looks the other way when comparing men's and women's sports/coaches? I'd say that things have changed in the past 12-24 months and if you did behave badly in the past, you need to be smart enough to realize it and change your behavior quickly to the current modicum of coach/team behavior.

And perhaps you do have to coach men and women differently and understand that in some general sense, women take the Bobby Knight style way worse than men do. I have coached high school aged girls basketball for 25 years and would never drop f-bombs or those sort of insults at girls. Perhaps I'd be a bit more loose with boys, but why put yourself in that position? Unfortunate situation all the way around. Seems like she could get talent, but never get over the top in the ACC or NCAA tourney and has a lot of players leaving. Too bad she couldn't adjust her style, both on and off the court and take it to the next level.

I can't imagine her coaching in college again after this report being released, so it is really a life time sentence from that perspective.

And another black eye for GT.

Respectfully disagree. I think, in the EBB case, that GT is being positively proactive on several fronts.

I have no doubt they followed proper P&P. We hired an independent investigator who interviewed EVERYONE.

GT is conducting itself correctly with regards to NCAA concerns.

And GT is putting the well being of the athletes first and foremost.

I regard it as anything but a black eye for GT.

JMO