So what did Joseph do?

[TooTall]

So who do we go after and hire?

 

[Texwood]

Having read the report, I can see a lawyer making a case of unequal treatment based on OLeary placing a kid in a physical confrontation without being fired. And since there are a lot of focus on swearing at and demeaning actions toward athletes it won't be hard to contrast that to CPJ screaming at kids and physically grabbing face masks without penalty. The report goes into detail saying Joseph never met the level of physical abuse or physically "touching" players. CJP without a doubt did.

I don't think Joseph will ever coach at GT again, but I also don't think this is as cut and dried as others think. I see a settlement being a lot more likely than GT getting off without paying a dime.

Good luck finding a single CPJ player who will testify to feeling victimized under deposition. In contrast, it looks as if Joseph's entire team is willing to testify as such. If the GTAA settles under such circumstances, that trumps the Hewitt contract fiasco in ineptitude.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Having read the report, I can see a lawyer making a case of unequal treatment based on OLeary placing a kid in a physical confrontation without being fired. And since there are a lot of focus on swearing at and demeaning actions toward athletes it won't be hard to contrast that to CPJ screaming at kids and physically grabbing face masks without penalty. The report goes into detail saying Joseph never met the level of physical abuse or physically "touching" players. CJP without a doubt did.

I don't think Joseph will ever coach at GT again, but I also don't think this is as cut and dried as others think. I see a settlement being a lot more likely than GT getting off without paying a dime.

Looks like we went the nuclear route. GT’s lawyers do not have a good track record. Hope we’re right otherwise this could get costly. She’s 50 with arguably 15-20 years of coaching ahead. That’s $10M in salary, tack on double damages plus she threw the ****bomb about unequal treatment. Could easily be a $75M lawsuit with an arbitration settlement of $5-10M & that’s the low end.

 

[g0lftime]

Does this mean rejoining the team or just working out to take advantage of GT basketball resources while still in school. I hope they return to the team and finish their careers but you never know these days.

 

[MWBATL]

I don't think Joseph will ever coach at GT again, but I also don't think this is as cut and dried as others think. I see a settlement being a lot more likely than GT getting off without paying a dime.

There are tons of lawyers who make a fortune out of extorting companies based on the simple principle that it becomes cheaper for companies to settle than to litigate. (John Edwards comes immediately to mind, but there are tons and tons of them out there. It is an industry.)

I was CEO of a company and a woman accused her supervisor of sexual harassment. She had zero evidence and the supervisor had great support amongst the other employees, yet Corporate decided to settle with her rather than Litigate. After we settled, we found out she had done this same thing to 4 other companies in the previous 15 years, with the help of a cooperating attorney.

Don't be shocked if GT decides to make a payment to make all this disappear. And the tactics on the coach's attorney's side will look a lot like Michael Avenatti's tactics right up until the settlement.

 

[GTLorenzo]

Here's the report.

https://media-beta.wsbtv.com/docume...port WBB 032019 _Redacted_14850457_ver1.0.pdf

 

[GT_05]

I’m curious if anyone knows how much money the women’s basketball program brings in versus how much it costs to operate. It seems to me that the program would be lucky to break even and now we are learning that GT will likely end up in court and could end up paying damages. Does the potential exposure from small athletic programs outweigh the benefits?

In Joseph’s defense, I thought all athletic coaches swore and demeaned their players. All of mine sure did. This didn’t make me want to complain about the coach; it made me work harder. There is obviously a line there but I haven’t heard anyone compare Joseph’s behavior to Bobby Knight’s yet.


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[GCdaJuiceMan]

Here's the report.

https://media-beta.wsbtv.com/document_dev/2019/03/26/Investigation Summary Report WBB 032019 _Redacted_14850457_ver1.0.pdf

"Several players described things that Coach Joseph does for them such as taking them on trips with the team, massages, basketball gear, and experiences."

 

[MWBATL]

In Joseph’s defense, I thought all athletic coaches swore and demeaned their players. All of mine sure did. This didn’t make me want to complain about the coach; it made me work harder. There is obviously a line there but I haven’t heard anyone compare Joseph’s behavior to Bobby Knight’s yet.


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I hate to say this, but young women today are (and maybe always have been) far more sensitive to such tactics than young men. If you have raised sons and daughters, you should know this. Young ladies need to have reinforcement and positive role models to do best, young men need to be kicked in the ba**s and sworn at to be motivated properly. I exaggerate, but you get what I am saying....,

 

[GT_05]

I hate to say this, but young women today are (and maybe always have been) far more sensitive to such tactics than young men. If you have raised sons and daughters, you should know this. Young ladies need to have reinforcement and positive role models to do best, young men need to be kicked in the ba**s and sworn at to be motivated properly. I exaggerate, but you get what I am saying....,

Yes, I get what you are saying. What I experienced may not be the best way but that’s all I’ve ever seen and I assumed women’s sports were probably similar.


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[YlJacket]

Good luck finding a single CPJ player who will testify to feeling victimized under deposition. In contrast, it looks as if Joseph's entire team is willing to testify as such. If the GTAA settles under such circumstances, that trumps the Hewitt contract fiasco in ineptitude.

I don't claim to know the rules of evidence when this thing goes forward, nor when the specific policies mentioned in the report where implemented, or if there is any history of "counseling" Joseph on issues. But I can see the kid from OLeary's tenure submitting testimony of victimization, verbal abuse and physical abuse and then asking whether there was any action taken, none of CPJ's players have to say they were "victimized" but there certainly is evidence of physical interaction which I have to believe is against GT athletic policy. There may be internally well known examples of Gregory or Hewitt screaming obscenities at players. I believe (subject to being overruled by a real legal beagle) that the case will be GT didn't follow their policies on the male side but brought the hammer down on her for arguably (they will argue) the same violations.

Again, she is gone. Won't coach again at GT. I am simply saying I can see a pathway where the legal case is not as black and white as the report from GT's legal counsel makes it seem. And while you or I may not like her counsel, I don't for a second believe her counsel is inept or not willing to make this as gray as possible.

 

[slugboy]

Let me sort this out for my old mind. GT was not treating the women's basketball team fairly, so she is OK with verbally and emotionally abusing the women on her team? I am missing the connection.

I'm sure her lawyer will say
1. Joseph has been crusading for fair treatment for her team for years
2. The new AD staff had enough and fired her because she was doing the right thing for her team
3. The AA just trumped up these allegations to get rid of her. The only connection is that it's what the AA could come up with.

I don't see any incentive for Joseph to back down after everything that's happened, unless there are bigger bombshells that would come out in court. If she does, it just locks in that she's not employable. If she fights, it at least creates doubt and lets her get her next job easier.

 

[YlJacket]

Yes, I get what you are saying. What I experienced may not be the best way but that’s all I’ve ever seen and I assumed women’s sports were probably similar.


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Quick story - SWMBOit played high end travel volleyball. Parents paid for a trip to Dallas. Parents in the stands. Not cheap. Girls are playing like gradu - no energy or anything. One of the moms actually writes up a permission for the coach to yell at the players and has every parent sign it during the first set. Actually gives it to the coach at the break. While humerous she was actually being serious about light their rear ends up. Coach is pissed at their play (you can see it), reads the note chuckles and puts it in his pocket. He then proceeds to the huddle and reasonably calmly proceeds to tell them they need more energy, more movement, etc. Asked him about it later and he said he lost teams by coaching them like guys. You can't do it as they don't respond positively to his "emotion" like a guys team would. FWIW this guy was considered one of the top 2 or 3 VB coaches in the RTP area and every kid on this team went to a VB team in college (not all scholarships).

Experience in college was there was definitely more in your face correction of mistakes and more energy transmitted from the coach but it was still nothing like a guys team.

 

[GTLorenzo]

I don't claim to know the rules of evidence when this thing goes forward, nor when the specific policies mentioned in the report where implemented, or if there is any history of "counseling" Joseph on issues. But I can see the kid from OLeary's tenure submitting testimony of victimization, verbal abuse and physical abuse and then asking whether there was any action taken, none of CPJ's players have to say they were "victimized" but there certainly is evidence of physical interaction which I have to believe is against GT athletic policy. There may be internally well known examples of Gregory or Hewitt screaming obscenities at players. I believe (subject to being overruled by a real legal beagle) that the case will be GT didn't follow their policies on the male side but brought the hammer down on her for arguably (they will argue) the same violations.

Again, she is gone. Won't coach again at GT. I am simply saying I can see a pathway where the legal case is not as black and white as the report from GT's legal counsel makes it seem. And while you or I may not like her counsel, I don't for a second believe her counsel is inept or not willing to make this as gray as possible.

I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't the football/basketball players have to show that they, either individually or as a team, felt they were victimized by the coach in order for their to be an apples to apples comparison? In other words, Johnson likely yelled a lot and, early on, grabbed some players by their facemasks. He was likely told to cool it on doing that as it was a bad look for him and the school. As far as we know, no player went to the Administration or media stating that they felt victimized by his tactics. Conversely, the ENTIRE team feels victimized by how Coach Joseph was treating players and staff. I would think anyone would forgive an instance or two and give a coach the chance to change their behavior, but it seems like this was not stop relentless demeaning behavior towards players and staff. If it was a one off, likely not a big deal, but the evidence is pretty damning when your whole team basically says they felt victimized by her.

And would commentary from a player (Vitakunis?) who got unnecessarily put in harm's way over 20 years ago really indicate that GT looks the other way when comparing men's and women's sports/coaches? I'd say that things have changed in the past 12-24 months and if you did behave badly in the past, you need to be smart enough to realize it and change your behavior quickly to the current modicum of coach/team behavior.

And perhaps you do have to coach men and women differently and understand that in some general sense, women take the Bobby Knight style way worse than men do. I have coached high school aged girls basketball for 25 years and would never drop f-bombs or those sort of insults at girls. Perhaps I'd be a bit more loose with boys, but why put yourself in that position? Unfortunate situation all the way around. Seems like she could get talent, but never get over the top in the ACC or NCAA tourney and has a lot of players leaving. Too bad she couldn't adjust her style, both on and off the court and take it to the next level.

I can't imagine her coaching in college again after this report being released, so it is really a life time sentence from that perspective.

And another black eye for GT.

 

[Buzzbomb]

So who do we go after and hire?

Following her twitter, it was like the last posts over the weekend had an implied resignation or finality to her tenure here. I started wondering who we would go after?

Sam Purcell is a friend, and I don’t think GT will rehire him(although personally, I think he’s the best candidate out there). TStan may or may not go after Gene Hill? Again, he’s a guy I’ve spoken hoops with many times and certainly qualified to take over the program. Mark Simonds is pretty loyal to CMJ(like the other two listed above), and as the incumbent he might be the first candidate interviewed. Players love him. I’m pretty sure we would look for an up and rising coach during the search, similar to what Syracuse and Clemson have done in recent years(should this drag on, after the known commodities).

 

[presjacket]

Who had "she's a bully" in the rumor pool?

 

[JacketGirl]

I hate to say this, but young women today are (and maybe always have been) far more sensitive to such tactics than young men. If you have raised sons and daughters, you should know this. Young ladies need to have reinforcement and positive role models to do best, young men need to be kicked in the ba**s and sworn at to be motivated properly. I exaggerate, but you get what I am saying....,

You’re right.

 

[684Bee]

Quick story - SWMBOit played high end travel volleyball. Parents paid for a trip to Dallas. Parents in the stands. Not cheap. Girls are playing like gradu - no energy or anything. One of the moms actually writes up a permission for the coach to yell at the players and has every parent sign it during the first set. Actually gives it to the coach at the break. While humerous she was actually being serious about light their rear ends up. Coach is pissed at their play (you can see it), reads the note chuckles and puts it in his pocket. He then proceeds to the huddle and reasonably calmly proceeds to tell them they need more energy, more movement, etc. Asked him about it later and he said he lost teams by coaching them like guys. You can't do it as they don't respond positively to his "emotion" like a guys team would. FWIW this guy was considered one of the top 2 or 3 VB coaches in the RTP area and every kid on this team went to a VB team in college (not all scholarships).

Experience in college was there was definitely more in your face correction of mistakes and more energy transmitted from the coach but it was still nothing like a guys team.

I thought in the PC world we are in today that we were supposed to ignore human nature and it’s all the same. Hmmm. Weird that we’d treat men and women differently. Who’d have thunk it?

 

[MWBATL]

I thought in the PC world we are in today that we were supposed to ignore human nature and it’s all the same. Hmmm. Weird that we’d treat men and women differently. Who’d have thunk it?

News flash...women have breasts and men don't. Oh, wait....MOST men don't!

I jest, but yeah, there are differences and really all men and women know it. What is important is that both genders have equal opportunity to all that America can offer. Sorry...end of political statement!

 

[TooTall]

At least we're not the only ones dealing with this.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/northe...sketball-abuse-camryn-whitaker-061856274.html