Rotating QBs good or bad ?

White_Gold

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CuseJacket said:
I don't support the rotating QBs that we've seen. The cons outweigh the pros, imo.

That said, there seems to be a disconnect in messaging from Patenaude and Collins. Pat is on record saying he prefers one person to step up and be "the guy". If I understand correctly, that's his history and also his history with Collins, even though it took a while to find "the guy" at Temple.

With that, my opinion is that CGC is providing air cover for what amounts to a QB situation he wishes he otherwise didn't have. In other words, there are going to be major flaws no matter which direction he goes.

Again, despite that, do I believe that CDP and CGC could make better decisions already? I believe so. But I don't think long-term he prefers 3 or even 2 QBs to get even snaps. Just an opinion and am open to be convinced otherwise if something doesn't change by EOY, and especially next year.
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I think that’s a good take.
 

White_Gold

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jojatk said:
I don’t get the impression that our coaches WANT to rotate QBs as a future direction. I think they feel that in order to give the most looks to the defense they have no choice given the QBs on the team. I’m basing that on what they did at Temple. It appeared to me, and based on some Q&A with my cousin who was a student at Temple (and a huge sports fan... and graduated this past spring) that they had no experienced QBs at the beginning of season 1 but went with the one who had been there the longest until he was injured in game 8. After that they had to play their backup. Then last year they started the season, I believe, with the QB who ended the previous season as the starter. But in game two gave Russo a few plays and then from game 3 on it was the Anthony Russo show. So going back to the most recent incarnation of CGC and CDP together I believe they’d like to have one guy but none have proven to give them enough broad ability across the playbook, some of which is due to guys at other positions so I’m not putting it all on the QBs, at this point.

Going back a bit further to CDP’s time at Coastal Carolina he absolutely had a clear starter who got almost all the snaps at QB each of his years there.

If I had to guess they would love it if Lucas would take the job so they could more safely use Tobias all over the place.
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I don’t think they want to rotate either.
 

White_Gold

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AE 87 said:
1. I'm sympathetic to the "not so fast" response to the "platooning is always bad" chorus. I wonder if the "nobody else does it" argument might not just reflect a fear of being different.

2. I suspect that a lot of the go with TO and bench LJ arguments are not considering sufficiently what they are being asked to do and when. We have a whole thread about our weaknesses on OL, and we have people dogmatically complaining about LJ for his failure to pass from the pocket (which often doesn't exist).

3. I think that if we are going to have different packages for the different QB's then they need to have sufficient diversity for each to counter what the defense is doing. Here, I'm not sure how much is on the players failing to execute or the OC failing to call an effective game, but I fear the latter.
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As for point #3, I’m leaning towards execution on OL and can’t really say for the skill positions running routes (can’t see their routes).

On some plays they make the correct calls and do the correct thing and slide appropriately. Then on the same look, they don’t. The same look should garner the same pass pro. Someone is just guessing out there. Maybe it’s different people different plays. Typically a QB and Center call the MLB out and subsequently set the protections.
Happened a few different times. And same thing for run plays. I saw what I think is a lot of misdiagnosed calls on the line. Basically, wrong paths, routes and pickup of defenders.
 

GSOJacket

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At some point in the second half I saw Oliver come in, replacing Johnson. Don't know if anyone else saw this, but I could swear I could see a change in the offense's body language - for the better. Like we really like playing with this guy, more confident. Maybe just my wishful thinking, but the image has stuck with me.
 

White_Gold

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RonJohn said:
How accurate do you have to be on a bubble screen? (honest question not being snippy)
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Let’s take throwing it to your right. If you are inaccurate you can miss left, high, low, or behind the line of scrimmage.
If you suck at throwing, bubble screens are not something you want to do.
Why we haven’t seen them with LJ? No clue.

I think not having a short pass game is pretty inexcusable. But what if they can’t throw very well consistently?
What if the times where we did dial up the short passes, it was the same time we had busted protections? And not just your usual busted protection for a team, busted for an option team learning to pass pro...we let guys run right through some times.
 
RonJohn

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White_Gold said:
I think not having a short pass game is pretty inexcusable. But what if they can’t throw very well consistently?
What if the times where we did dial up the short passes, it was the same time we had busted protections? And not just your usual busted protection for a team, busted for an option team learning to pass pro...we let guys run right through some times.
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Wouldn't short quick passes help with pass pro? Even a bubble might take too long, but what about screens where one receiver takes one step back and turns and the QB throws as soon as the ball hits his hands? Seems to me that that would happen too quickly for a sack. Also seems like it would get the box less crowded and open up for Mason.
 
kalld12

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GSOJacket said:
At some point in the second half I saw Oliver come in, replacing Johnson. Don't know if anyone else saw this, but I could swear I could see a change in the offense's body language - for the better. Like we really like playing with this guy, more confident. Maybe just my wishful thinking, but the image has stuck with me.
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It’s a fact that overall morale of the team spikes up when Oliver enters the game as QB. He’s earned the respect of many from last years performances. I don’t think the team even has a lot of faith in LJ at this point. If LJ can’t move the ball against the Citadel what gives any of you confidence he’ll be better against higher competition? Just stupid, and I have news for you, he won’t get any better. That ship has sailed. Hopefully Graham gets healthy for Temple and we can see both TO/JG play.
 

Animal02

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kalld12 said:
It’s a fact that overall morale of the team spikes up when Oliver enters the game as QB. He’s earned the respect of many from last years performances. I don’t think the team even has a lot of faith in LJ at this point. If LJ can’t move the ball against the Citadel what gives any of you confidence he’ll be better against higher competition? Just stupid, and I have news for you, he won’t get any better. That ship has sailed. Hopefully Graham gets healthy for Temple and we can see both TO/JG play.
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You have the data to back that claim up? Otherwise it is just an opinion......and you know what they say about opinions.

Other than that.....I agree with your other opinions and conclusion;)
 
chewybaka

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kalld12 said:
It’s a fact that overall morale of the team spikes up when Oliver enters the game as QB. He’s earned the respect of many from last years performances. I don’t think the team even has a lot of faith in LJ at this point. If LJ can’t move the ball against the Citadel what gives any of you confidence he’ll be better against higher competition? Just stupid, and I have news for you, he won’t get any better. That ship has sailed. Hopefully Graham gets healthy for Temple and we can see both TO/JG play.
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It's sad that this seems almost self evident and yet I don't believe this is what will happen...which is stoking my frustrations and disappointment in our coaching...
 
BCJacket

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Personally, I think the coaches professed theory on the multiple QB system is sound. If you have different QBs who can execute things at a high level it adds a layer for the opposing D staff to figure out what you're doing.

But, when we have 1 dimensional QBs- Oliver can run, Johnson is going to try to throw. Not to mention an intramural OL, thanks to injuries and attrition. It makes it easier on the opposing D. We all saw that. When the TV announcers are predicting your plays- and the outcome- you have a problem.

Oliver was effective, Johnson was not, at least not consistently. Maybe if we'd have gone all in on TO, Citadel would have adjusted. But it sure looked like TO and Mason could move the ball at will. But CDP kept going back to a gameplan that wasn't working. I can't understand why.
 
Vespidae

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BCJacket said:
If you have different QBs who can execute things at a high level it adds a layer for the opposing D staff to figure out what you're doing.
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So play them BOTH at the same time. Who runs? Who passes? Who knows?

Trotting entire packages on and off the field just signals plays in my opinion. If you are going to be sneaky … be sneaky. Make them guess.
 
LongforDodd

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sidewalkGTfan said:
Currently, Oliver gives us the best chance to win NOW. I don't even know how that's debatable at this point.

I don't know what LJ brings to the table. He looks indecisive and slow out there to me. I'm not sure why he's labeled the "passer" of the group cause I have yet to see him really make a great throw.

Graham is an x-factor here cause he seems to able to do some of both but he's probably a turnover waiting to happen.

Yates should be spared from having to play behind this OL. Nothing good can come of that.
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LJ has better mechanics than TO but other than that, the comparative results are a tossup. Graham, OTOH, seems to throw a nice ball from the little I've seen.
 
smokey_wasp

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I think the coaches are begging anyone other than Tobias to step up because they don't see him as part of the QB competition for next year and they'd really like to move him to another position and get the other players up to speed on the future offense so that we're not behind schedule on the transition. Circumstances may dictate rethinking the strategy, but that is my speculation.
 
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