Paul Johnson time frame.

[AE 87]

The best 2 year stretch he has ever had was his first 2 years. Those were Gaileys players. Your defense of any argument against Johnson is what is old and makes people realize a reasonable discussion on our coach is impossible on this board.

I know you're probably trolling (because I don't think anyone could make this post seriously) , but the claim to which I was responding was not about "2 year stretch." Fwiw, the best 2 year stretch for our offense was 11 and 12 but our D was awful.

I appreciate that in a relatively recent post you moved your critique of CPJ toward his impact on our defense. As I've said numerous times in the past, I consider that the argument against CPJ which the data actually can support. I'm of the opinion that CNW will turn our D around, but we haven't seen it yet.

 

[Boaty1]

I know you're probably trolling (because I don't think anyone could make this post seriously) , but the claim to which I was responding was not about "2 year stretch." Fwiw, the best 2 year stretch for our offense was 11 and 12 but our D was awful.

I appreciate that in a relatively recent post you moved your critique of CPJ toward his impact on our defense. As I've said numerous times in the past, I consider that the argument against CPJ which the data actually can support. I'm of the opinion that CNW will turn our D around, but we haven't seen it yet.

I know you're probably trolling (because I don't think anyone could make this post seriously) , but the claim to which I was responding was not about "2 year stretch." Fwiw, the best 2 year stretch for our offense was 11 and 12 but our D was awful.

I appreciate that in a relatively recent post you moved your critique of CPJ toward his impact on our defense. As I've said numerous times in the past, I consider that the argument against CPJ which the data actually can support. I'm of the opinion that CNW will turn our D around, but we haven't seen it yet.

My critique of Johnson has everything to do with the direction of our program as a whole. The head coach is ultimately responsible for the entirety of the program. If we are below what I feel our modern standards are then I don’t care if his offense is working or not.

 

[AE 87]

My critique of Johnson has everything to do with the direction of our program as a whole. The head coach is ultimately responsible for the entirety of the program. If we are below what I feel our modern standards are then I don’t care if his offense is working or not.

I appreciate the first part of that. However, I think that a rational discussion still has to consider to what degree the offense is value-added or not. If CPJ's offense contributes to us being more competitive with the better teams than I think the rational thing to do is to make sure that we can't field a D to go along with it than to ignore that data and start from scratch.

"Just win" is a cry of the emotions. Rational consideration must translate that desire into fielding a competitive O, a competitive D, and, to a lesser extent, a competitive ST. So, with that in mind, saying that you don't care if CPJ's offense is working or not is to put you outside of the desire for any rational conversation, imo.

ETA: Assessing the "direction of the program as a whole" requires looking at what else was going on with the losing seasons. For example, 2015 saw us suffer an abnormally high number of injuries, and 2017 saw us literally a handful of plays away from an 8 or 9 win season. When you also consider that 2016 in between was a 9 win year, it's hard to say that the two losing seasons are indicative of an alarming direction for the program, imo. (unless of course you don't care about being thoughtful and want to only react emotionally)

 

[Boaty1]

I appreciate the first part of that. However, I think that a rational discussion still has to consider to what degree the offense is value-added or not. If CPJ's offense contributes to us being more competitive with the better teams than I think the rational thing to do is to make sure that we can't field a D to go along with it than to ignore that data and start from scratch.

"Just win" is a cry of the emotions. Rational consideration must translate that desire into fielding a competitive O, a competitive D, and, to a lesser extent, a competitive ST. So, with that in mind, saying that you don't care if CPJ's offense is working or not is to put you outside of the desire for any rational conversation, imo.

ETA: Assessing the "direction of the program as a whole" requires looking at what else was going on with the losing seasons. For example, 2015 saw us suffer an abnormally high number of injuries, and 2017 saw us literally a handful of plays away from an 8 or 9 win season. When you also consider that 2016 in between was a 9 win year, it's hard to say that the two losing seasons are indicative of an alarming direction for the program, imo. (unless of course you don't care about being thoughtful and want to only react emotionally)

Ok. I wonder how many times during our 18 year bowl streak we had an unusually high amount of injuries or dismissals. I’d bet they happened numerous times and yet we found a way to overcome them. Unfortunately what an entire generation of tech fans grew up expecting in a bowl game now feels like an achievement. The further we go down this road of futility the harder it will be to recover from it.

Look, I want Johnson to succeed. I hope we turn a corner this year and get to 7 regular season wins. I don’t think it will happen but I’m hopeful. I fully understand that if we decide to pull the trigger and go in a different direction we will suffer through several years of rebuilding as we transition to a new offense. But for me at least the losing would be in a rebuilding effort. There would be hope for the future of the program. For me right now I have little hope Johnson can turn it around. In year 11 under Johnson I think the D is what it is. I have no hopes of him ever being able to field at mid range power 5 D regardless of who the coordinator is and I believe his offense is less effective against divisional opponents that see it annually.

I understand your argument of his offense giving us a unique advantage and believe at one point that was correct. While statistically it is still effective, I believe there are other factors to it that are inhibitors to consistent success going forward. Thus for me I think it’s time for a change.

 

[AE 87]

Ok. I wonder how many times during our 18 year bowl streak we had an unusually high amount of injuries or dismissals. I’d bet they happened numerous times and yet we found a way to overcome them. Unfortunately what an entire generation of tech fans grew up expecting in a bowl game now feels like an achievement. The further we go down this road of futility the harder it will be to recover from it.

Look, I want Johnson to succeed. I hope we turn a corner this year and get to 7 regular season wins. I don’t think it will happen but I’m hopeful. I fully understand that if we decide to pull the trigger and go in a different direction we will suffer through several years of rebuilding as we transition to a new offense. But for me at least the losing would be in a rebuilding effort. There would be hope for the future of the program. For me right now I have little hope Johnson can turn it around. In year 11 under Johnson I think the D is what it is. I have no hopes of him ever being able to field at mid range power 5 D regardless of who the coordinator is and I believe his offense is less effective against divisional opponents that see it annually.

I understand your argument of his offense giving us a unique advantage and believe at one point that was correct. While statistically it is still effective, I believe there are other factors to it that are inhibitors to consistent success going forward. Thus for me I think it’s time for a change.

No worries. There's no debate against imagination and emotion.

 

[THWG16]

This is the craziest argument.....Since recruiting rankings began......We average about the same in every class regardless of the coach. Let's remember, rankings of an 18 year old kid mean nothing. Mills was a 3 star when he came to Tech and now that he is going to Nebraska he is a 4 star. Same thing with C'Bo. I will take 100 2 star Clinton Lynches any day. All that matters is winning and CPJ is the most successful Coach Tech has had in the modern era.....Post 1970.

O’leary Inherited a horrible situation, so did Ross! They would coach circles & recruit circles around PJ ! Ask anyone that knows anything about football , they’ll agree

 

[MWBATL]

O’leary Inherited a horrible situation, so did Ross! They would coach circles & recruit circles around PJ ! Ask anyone that knows anything about football , they’ll agree

Gracious....which part of recruiting today is different don't you understand? Which part of CPJ can't get the kids into school that Ross and O'Leary got in? Which part of the fact that the APR and progress towards graduation would have decimated those teams don't you get?

I have my issues with CPJ, but I recognize the world is VERY different than it was 20 and 25 years ago when those guys coached.

 

[AE 87]

Gracious....which part of recruiting today is different don't you understand? Which part of CPJ can't get the kids into school that Ross and O'Leary got in? Which part of the fact that the APR and progress towards graduation would have decimated those teams don't you get?

I have my issues with CPJ, but I recognize the world is VERY different than it was 20 and 25 years ago when those guys coached.

What's sad is that, technically, O'Leary couldn't field those teams with the rules as they were then, let alone now. (Repeat after me: Flunkgate never happened)

 

[JacketFromUGA]

Ok. I wonder how many times during our 18 year bowl streak we had an unusually high amount of injuries or dismissals. I’d bet they happened numerous times and yet we found a way to overcome them.

If you want to enter this in as a piece of evidence then you need to do the leg work and figure it out. "I'd bet" is not a high enough bar for me to consider it a rational part of an argument.

 

[THWG16]

Gracious....which part of recruiting today is different don't you understand? Which part of CPJ can't get the kids into school that Ross and O'Leary got in? Which part of the fact that the APR and progress towards graduation would have decimated those teams don't you get?

I have my issues with CPJ, but I recognize the world is VERY different than it was 20 and 25 years ago when those guys coached.

I understand that & if that’s the case the hill needs to make major changes ! It’s not all PJ’s fault that we’ve struggled , just like it’s not all pastner or hall’s fault for recent struggles . But go ask a uga , Clemson, unc, or duke fan who they fear them most out of all of our coaches the last 30 years & it won’t be PJ! I still think we put too much emphasis or use academics as a crutch too much ! But I do understand things are different now

 

[Boaty1]

If you want to enter this in as a piece of evidence then you need to do the leg work and figure it out. "I'd bet" is not a high enough bar for me to consider it a rational part of an argument.

Lol. So do you have evidence of it not happening? Let me give one example. 03 we lost half our starters on D before the season started due a failure in our compliance department. We beat Auburn that year and went to a bowl game.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

Lol. So do you have evidence of it not happening? Let me give one example. 03 we lost half our starters on D before the season started due a failure in our compliance department. We beat Auburn that year and went to a bowl game.

the onus is not on me to disprove your evidence. The onus is on you, the person who introduced it, to justify it. I'm not saying it's not true I'm just saying if you want people to believe it then you need to prove it.

 

[Boaty1]

the onus is not on me to disprove your evidence. The onus is on you, the person who introduced it, to justify it. I'm not saying it's not true I'm just saying if you want people to believe it then you need to prove it.

Did 03 work for you?

 

[JacketFromUGA]

Did 03 work for you?

I mean maybe. What were the injuries? what was the final result? even if it checks the box that's one year and not the "numerous" you're claiming.

Again I'm not saying you're wrong all I'm saying is you can't throw things out there with no proof and expect everyone to accept it as the truth.

 

[Boaty1]

Gracious....which part of recruiting today is different don't you understand? Which part of CPJ can't get the kids into school that Ross and O'Leary got in? Which part of the fact that the APR and progress towards graduation would have decimated those teams don't you get?

I have my issues with CPJ, but I recognize the world is VERY different than it was 20 and 25 years ago when those guys coached.

My problem with this line of reasoning is Johnson is still offering a ton of people and is virtually never beating out any factories. The offers indicate we believe they could handle it academically here but we are closing on a very low percentage of our top priorities.

The argument that O’Leary couldn’t get ALL of his recruits in today is true I’m sure. But the fact is he still closed on a much higher percentage of the top prospects he was offering than Johnson. It’s really not close.

Johnson is winning very few recruiting battles and that can not all be explained away by academics. We are still offering a lot of players we are missing on.

 

[AE 87]

My problem with this line of reasoning is Johnson is still offering a ton of people and is virtually never beating out any factories. The offers indicate we believe they could handle it academically here but we are closing on a very low percentage of our top priorities.

The argument that O’Leary couldn’t get ALL of his recruits in today is true I’m sure. But the fact is he still closed on a much higher percentage of the top prospects he was offering than Johnson. It’s really not close.

Johnson is winning very few recruiting battles and that can not all be explained away by academics. We are still offering a lot of players we are missing on.

When you say, "it's really not close," what are the numbers precisely?

 

[AlphaBuzz]

My problem with this line of reasoning is Johnson is still offering a ton of people and is virtually never beating out any factories. The offers indicate we believe they could handle it academically here but we are closing on a very low percentage of our top priorities.

The argument that O’Leary couldn’t get ALL of his recruits in today is true I’m sure. But the fact is he still closed on a much higher percentage of the top prospects he was offering than Johnson. It’s really not close.

Johnson is winning very few recruiting battles and that can not all be explained away by academics. We are still offering a lot of players we are missing on.

I'm not an expert, but I refer again to the interview that CPJ gave to Schultz a couple of years ago. He specifically addressed the recruiting issues at GT. He said that the biggest challenge was that we have very limited majors and that causes us to fail with a lot of otherwise qualified kids. With APR being what it is, you have to have a kid smart enough to get in, committed enough to do the work to stay on track to graduate in 5 years (I believe the players have to be 20% along after each year to stay eligible) and have something the kid wants to study. We have something like 45 majors; uGa has over 200. Plenty of smart football players don't want a STEM education. We've talked about Stanford and how "they can do it, why can't we", but they have a lot more options for the kids to choose from.

More options in the majors = more kids choosing to come here.

 

[okiemon]

Weve got the Perfect Option the Perfect Option........When you throw the ball three things can happen and two of them aint good, Bear Bryant...........Long live the Flex Bone Spread Option at Georgia Tech.

Good point, though I don’t think it was the Bear who said that. Check out Woody Hays.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Boaty1]

I mean maybe. What were the injuries? what was the final result? even if it checks the box that's one year and not the "numerous" you're claiming.

Again I'm not saying you're wrong all I'm saying is you can't throw things out there with no proof and expect everyone to accept it as the truth.

No worries. There's no debate against imagination and

I try to have good discussion with you and you simply have these condescending remarks like my point is completely invalid. I’ll just understand not to waste my time on reasoning with you. People like you take debate to the gutter.

 

[Boaty1]

When you say, "it's really not close," what are the numbers precisely?

Buddy I’ve given you examples time and time again. I’ve schooled you enough on this topic and the fact you still don’t understand my perspective on recruiting speaks volumes to your intelligence.