Pastner cleared of Ron Bell lies

[dtm1997]

In my not so humble opinion, you just have to ride it out and fund raise. Some may think it’s to early but it’s never too early to plan ahead. I think this has, at the very least, been a strange hire, based on numerous factors. We need to hit the next one out of the park or we will fully become Washington State, Rutgers or DePaul.

Part of the reason I always bring up the money. It's not just about escaping the buyout, which seems pretty unlikely, it's also about the significant future investment to bring us back to relevancy.

Of course, @Peacone36, you happen to already know this.

 

[AUFC]

Is there any chance we can raise the coach budget to $3m next time around or is that just an unrealistic expectation? I fear if we're dropping $1.5-$2m again, we'll be stuck rolling the dice with an unproven coach. Even just spending 40-45% more would get us a name like Bruce Pearl.

 

[Peacone36]

Always remember, Virginia hired Tony Bennett for $1.4MM to start.

 

[dtm1997]

Always remember, Virginia hired Tony Bennett for $1.4MM to start.

After winning in a High Major conference on a terrible platform.

 

[Bogey]

Isn't this the month that all civil cases involving coach will either be settled or go to court?

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[RamblinRed]

After winning in a High Major conference on a terrible platform.

And that was a long time ago - a decade ago. Bennett was hired in 2009.
The salary dynamics are different today. $1.4M then is closer to the equivalent of 2.2-2.5M today.

As DTM says there are 3 different financial dynamics going on here. First is removing the current HC. He has a significant buyout. Not one out of line in today's coaching but still significant for a relatively cash starved athletic program like GT. Pastner has been cleared by both the NCAA and GT so GT has no grounds for firing with cause. If GT tried to go that route I expect Pastner's lawyer would have a lawsuit filed within a couple of days and GT would be likely to lose in court.

Second is hiring a new HC. Right now Pastner is the 2nd lowest paid HC in the conference with the lowest paid asst coaches. in that Respect you could say the staff has outperformed expectations - though it is well below where I would like to see us be. If we want to have a good program we are going to have to increase the investment in the program. That would like start with a HC salary that begins at no lower than 2.5M and if you really want to attract any 'names' you need to start at no lower than $3M. Also need to raise the amount of money for assts and support staff.

The third dynamic is current spending. GT just literally emptied its rainy day account to fund the football program. It will be a couple of years before that is replinished.

I'd like to see Pastner succeed because i'm worried if we make a change we will go cheap again. As i've said before, i'd keep Pastner until GT is ready to step up and truly fund the BB program.
After season 5 Stansbury will have to make a decision since Pastner's buyout decreases at that time and he is due a 500K retention bonus if we decide to retain him after year 5.

 

[orientalnc]

I think too much negative emphasis is placed on the lack of recruiting success for 2019. The current team has significant talent and I am not as negative as some seem to be. Let's give these guys a chance before we light a bonfire under Pastner's desk chair.

 

[Peacone36]

I think too much negative emphasis is placed on the lack of recruiting success for 2019. The current team has significant talent and I am not as negative as some seem to be. Let's give these guys a chance before we light a bonfire under Pastner's desk chair.

Nobody has ever said that the 2019 recruiting class has negatively effected this years team. But we need a big guy in 2020 when Banks leaves. We are going to need a guard in two years when Jose leaves along with Usher and Moses. Its the same reason that Notre Dame fans are panicking right now.

 

[MtnWasp]

Nobody has ever said that the 2019 recruiting class has negatively effected this years team. But we need a big guy in 2020 when Banks leaves. We are going to need a guard in two years when Jose leaves along with Usher and Moses. Its the same reason that Notre Dame fans are panicking right now.

We need a a ready post (or two) with this class, but we are not going to get a plug-'n'-play PG (like Smith) in this class. We are returning three upper classmen at that position in 2020 and no high level recruit is going to be attracted by that level of congestion when they will have better options for immediate playing time. But, we might be able to recruit a project at PG, a kid who already has in mind that he will need a year or two for seasoning.

2021 is the year to replenish PG.

I wonder if it is conceivable that recruiting has changed so much that we might actually whiff on two consecutive early signing periods? Are we left to scavenge the Spring leftovers, transfers and foreign scene (which we have not been successful at exploiting despite Reveno's frequent flyer miles)? Might that actually be what we are left to do to fill the roster as our regular M.O.??

I guess I have become jaded because it feels like the Summer and Fall recruiting coverage is a spectator sport that we are not really seriously competitive and it is just a big waste of time. But I guess we can build a competitive roster outside this scene?

 

[Peacone36]

We need a a ready post (or two) with this class, but we are not going to get a plug-'n'-play PG (like Smith) in this class. We are returning three upper classmen at that position in 2020 and no high level recruit is going to be attracted by that level of congestion when they will have better options for immediate playing time. But, we might be able to recruit a project at PG, a kid who already has in mind that he will need a year or two for seasoning.

2021 is the year to replenish PG.

I wonder if it is conceivable that recruiting has changed so much that we might actually whiff on two consecutive early signing periods? Are we left to scavenge the Spring leftovers, transfers and foreign scene (which we have not been successful at exploiting despite Reveno's frequent flyer miles)? Might that actually be what we are left to do to fill the roster as our regular M.O.??

I guess I have become jaded because it feels like the Summer and Fall recruiting coverage is a spectator sport that we are not really seriously competitive and it is just a big waste of time. But I guess we can build a competitive roster outside this scene?

Yeah, that’s why I said we are going to need a guard in two years when Jose leaves.

 

[ramblinjacket]

Isn't this the month that all civil cases involving coach will either be settled or go to court?

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Yes. 8/20 If this slightly dated article is still accurate.

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawi...cle_91d715de-f432-11e8-8bc7-8bdc2310365b.html

 

[Bogey]

Yes. 8/20 If this slightly dated article is still accurate.

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawi...cle_91d715de-f432-11e8-8bc7-8bdc2310365b.html

Thanks!

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[Bogey]

We need a a ready post (or two) with this class, but we are not going to get a plug-'n'-play PG (like Smith) in this class. We are returning three upper classmen at that position in 2020 and no high level recruit is going to be attracted by that level of congestion when they will have better options for immediate playing time. But, we might be able to recruit a project at PG, a kid who already has in mind that he will need a year or two for seasoning.

2021 is the year to replenish PG.

I wonder if it is conceivable that recruiting has changed so much that we might actually whiff on two consecutive early signing periods? Are we left to scavenge the Spring leftovers, transfers and foreign scene (which we have not been successful at exploiting despite Reveno's frequent flyer miles)? Might that actually be what we are left to do to fill the roster as our regular M.O.??

I guess I have become jaded because it feels like the Summer and Fall recruiting coverage is a spectator sport that we are not really seriously competitive and it is just a big waste of time. But I guess we can build a competitive roster outside this scene?

I think it is coming down to something like this. If Pastner takes us dancing this year, I think Tstan's most obvious course is to stay with CJP for a few more years at least. Tech has always been a football school and is committed to keeping with our tradition, not only with recent expenditures, but future as well. I know a major BDS rebuild is being talked about for instance. I just can't see us trying to go another direction in basketball in the near future if Pastner is even half way acceptable. Just my opinion.

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[RamblinRed]

I think it is coming down to something like this. If Pastner takes us dancing this year, I think Tstan's most obvious course is to stay with CJP for a few more years at least. Tech has always been a football school and is committed to keeping with our tradition, not only with recent expenditures, but future as well. I know a major BDS rebuild is being talked about for instance. I just can't see us trying to go another direction in basketball in the near future if Pastner is even half way acceptable. Just my opinion.

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I largely agree with this.
If he gets the team to the Tourney this year then I think he is likely to be here awhile. That would be the biggest thing he could do to finally get recruiting moving in the right direction and he would have a big 2021 class to recruit coming off of an NCAA Tourney bid.

GT and its fanbase has always seen itself has a FB school first -even when Cremins was here.

i don't think GT will get rid of Pastner after this season no matter what happens because it isn't an advantageous time to make a coaching change. TStan will only make a move on BB when it is financially advantageous for him to do so. Most likely time would be after season 5.

One interesting thought that gives me sort of nightmares. What if GT misses the Tourney this year but makes the NIT, has a poor 2021 recruiting class in the fall of 2020, but makes the Tourney in Spring 2021. Then what does TStan do? He's got a coach coming off the first NCAA Toruney appearance in over a decade, but likely with a depleted roster heading into 2021-2022. Very similar to what MBob had to deal with in year 5 of Gregory. Though that was just an NIT bid, not an NCAA bid. TStan has to make a keep or start over decision after year 5. Pastner's buyout drops to 75% after
year 5 and he is also owed a 500K retention bonus if he is kept after year 5 (That is something TStan added to the contract). FWIW, my gut is that if this is the scenario that plays out that Pastner will be retained after year 5.

 

[kg01]

I think the move-on decision (if your nightmare scenario happens, RR) is a no-brainer and no one in the fanbase would bat an eye.

 

[Peacone36]

I largely agree with this.
If he gets the team to the Tourney this year then I think he is likely to be here awhile. That would be the biggest thing he could do to finally get recruiting moving in the right direction and he would have a big 2021 class to recruit coming off of an NCAA Tourney bid.

GT and its fanbase has always seen itself has a FB school first -even when Cremins was here.

i don't think GT will get rid of Pastner after this season no matter what happens because it isn't an advantageous time to make a coaching change. TStan will only make a move on BB when it is financially advantageous for him to do so. Most likely time would be after season 5.

One interesting thought that gives me sort of nightmares. What if GT misses the Tourney this year but makes the NIT, has a poor 2021 recruiting class in the fall of 2020, but makes the Tourney in Spring 2021. Then what does TStan do? He's got a coach coming off the first NCAA Toruney appearance in over a decade, but likely with a depleted roster heading into 2021-2022. Very similar to what MBob had to deal with in year 5 of Gregory. Though that was just an NIT bid, not an NCAA bid. TStan has to make a keep or start over decision after year 5. Pastner's buyout drops to 75% after
year 5 and he is also owed a 500K retention bonus if he is kept after year 5 (That is something TStan added to the contract). FWIW, my gut is that if this is the scenario that plays out that Pastner will be retained after year 5.

Retained or extended?

 

[RamblinRed]

I meant extended. I don't think he would be retained with just 2 years left on his contract. After year 5 he will be extended or released.

 

[Peacone36]

I meant extended. I don't think he would be retained with just 2 years left on his contract. After year 5 he will be extended or released.

I figured thats what you meant but wanted to be sure. If that is the case, i hope it is only for a year or 2 with a managable buyout. I dont want to be in the same situation as Clemson or Wake.

 

[orientalnc]

I meant extended. I don't think he would be retained with just 2 years left on his contract. After year 5 he will be extended or released.

I am sure that is what you meant. But, I think this season is the one where Pastner has to succeed. The turmoil in the program due to Pastner's "friendship" with Ron Bell and the lack of a 2021 successful recruiting class would be the warning sign that Pastner is going to fail after year 5. My worry is that the NCAA cloud hanging over the program is seriously hurting our ability to recruit right now. That is not all on Pastner, but he is the HC and should be held accountable. If we are not cleared by the NCAA, and your scenario plays out, Pastner will not be here for year 5. TStan can see the cupboard empty as well as anyone.

 

[Bogey]

I largely agree with this.
If he gets the team to the Tourney this year then I think he is likely to be here awhile. That would be the biggest thing he could do to finally get recruiting moving in the right direction and he would have a big 2021 class to recruit coming off of an NCAA Tourney bid.

GT and its fanbase has always seen itself has a FB school first -even when Cremins was here.

i don't think GT will get rid of Pastner after this season no matter what happens because it isn't an advantageous time to make a coaching change. TStan will only make a move on BB when it is financially advantageous for him to do so. Most likely time would be after season 5.

One interesting thought that gives me sort of nightmares. What if GT misses the Tourney this year but makes the NIT, has a poor 2021 recruiting class in the fall of 2020, but makes the Tourney in Spring 2021. Then what does TStan do? He's got a coach coming off the first NCAA Toruney appearance in over a decade, but likely with a depleted roster heading into 2021-2022. Very similar to what MBob had to deal with in year 5 of Gregory. Though that was just an NIT bid, not an NCAA bid. TStan has to make a keep or start over decision after year 5. Pastner's buyout drops to 75% after
year 5 and he is also owed a 500K retention bonus if he is kept after year 5 (That is something TStan added to the contract). FWIW, my gut is that if this is the scenario that plays out that Pastner will be retained after year 5.

I would agree that he would be retained/extended in your nightmare case. To me, he can survive a long time by having a few projects that contribute after seasoning and filling in with transfers when there is an opportunity for lots of minutes.

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