New recruit Petty $800,000 per year NIL

[roadkill]

Most fans, and I’m including myself, have been living in a fantasyland that held that amateurism was an inviolate principle underpinning college sports. When in fact, that principle has been illegal for almost 100 years! I’m surprised that a case like Alston didn’t come up decades ago. Amateurism was a facade attempting to create parity across programs when all along it failed to do so.

Some degree of parity, or a least parity of opportunity, is good for the sport, and I hope that there is a way to achieve that in the near future. But ethically and morally, I would not want the sport to go back to a system that was clearly illegal.

 

[stinger78]

Most fans, and I’m including myself, have been living in a fantasyland that held that amateurism was an inviolate principle underpinning college sports. When in fact, that principle has been illegal for almost 100 years! I’m surprised that a case like Alston didn’t come up decades ago. Amateurism was a facade attempting to create parity across programs when all along it failed to do so.

Some degree of parity, or a least parity of opportunity, is good for the sport, and I hope that there is a way to achieve that in the near future. But ethically and morally, I would not want the sport to go back to a system that was clearly illegal.

How was it illegal? The players were being paid. Would it change anything if the players had been being sent a 1099 every January for the cost of the compensation they received the previous year?

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

A very small tier but yes, maybe a row… or two. And yes, SMU will be one to recon with.

I think you’ll see many schools jumping up the recruiting rankings and many others falling once we get a few more years into this new era. I think Notre Dame could be one. They have fallen, much like GT, in the pecking order the past 30 years because they have some ethics. I’m sure they have a lot of rich alum who are ready to get back in the game and shove their money up the SEC’s backside legally. The game has totally changed today and a lot of smart people at a lot of smart schools are getting their systems in place. Gonna be a fun decade ahead watching it all unfold.

 

[roadkill]

How was it illegal?

NCAA v OBannon
NCAA v Alston

In a nutshell, the NCAA and its member colleges were breaking antitrust law by colluding to limit athletes' compensation by rules and restrictions. The NCAA's argument before the Supreme Court went something like "Student-Athletes are amateurs because they aren't paid, and they can't be paid because they're amateurs". The court found the NCAA's circular logic to be unconvincing.

 

[stinger78]

NCAA v OBannon
NCAA v Alston

In a nutshell, the NCAA and its member colleges were breaking antitrust law by colluding to limit athletes' compensation by rules and restrictions. The NCAA's argument before the Supreme Court went something like "Student-Athletes are amateurs because they aren't paid, and they can't be paid because they're amateurs". The court found the NCAA's circular logic to be unconvincing.

OK, collusion. I get it. My response was there was an unwritten legal notion that college players would get grants for school fees and training/medical in exchange for their time if the schools policed themselves. Finally, the money got so large that players wanted a share of the purse. If their coaches were making millions, why not them?

At some point the antitrust exemption for MLB is going to be successfully challenged. Will they have been wrong all these years? No, the legal thinking will have changed. I see it the same for college athletics.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

Which would you prefer – GT possibly left behind in the future because we can’t keep up, or left behind today because we won’t play the NIL game? I’ll take us failing after giving it our best shot over failing because we didn’t try.

Sure, I understand this position. But you are 100% missing the bigger picture. Which, if all of us here would be completely honest is bigger and more far-reaching than the so-called NIL game today.

But I’m fine with your position as the expected fallback. And I have no problem holding the line on my side for the better long game.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

I know you’re not saying this, and I’m not ascribing this to you, but the ends justifies the means has been used to allow a lot of bad stuff.

^this. It’s literally the result of so much justification for crap **** today.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

I trust our coaches.

I don’t even know what this means in the broader context. But if you mean they’re going to try to protect their *** -es today for their own $million benefits tomorrow .. yeah, I get you

 

[MusicalBuzz]

Most fans, and I’m including myself, have been living in a fantasyland that held that amateurism was an inviolate principle underpinning college sports. When in fact, that principle has been illegal for almost 100 years! I’m surprised that a case like Alston didn’t come up decades ago. Amateurism was a facade attempting to create parity across programs when all along it failed to do so.

Some degree of parity, or a least parity of opportunity, is good for the sport, and I hope that there is a way to achieve that in the near future. But ethically and morally, I would not want the sport to go back to a system that was clearly illegal.

Please, please, please define what parity is and how you would ever expect that under table money is not happening in a clearly unregulated situation? For the love of God, have mercy on all of us, please?

 

[forensicbuzz]

I don’t even know what this means in the broader context. But if you mean they’re going to try to protect their *** -es today for their own $million benefits tomorrow .. yeah, I get you

No, you've got a real hot take here and in the other thread you were posting in, and you seem to be lumping different responses all together.

My comment was that I trust the coaches to decide who they want to go after and who they are willing to pass on. I'm sure there is communication between the NIL groups and the coaching staff. Whether that is legal or illegal, doesn't matter. Nothing is enforceable right now. The NCAA is afraid to try to enforce anything right now because they'll be taken to Court and a ruling against them (a la Tennessee or Virginia) will further undercut their authority.

So, if our coaches think that a 5* OL is our biggest need (whether for the perception in recruiting or actually on the field), I trust them to make the correct decision. J Batt is probably in the middle of that, as well.

If you don't like what you're seeing happening, you might just want to take a hiatus because it's not going anywhere soon, right or wrong.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

NCAA v OBannon
NCAA v Alston

In a nutshell, the NCAA and its member colleges were breaking antitrust law by colluding to limit athletes' compensation by rules and restrictions. The NCAA's argument before the Supreme Court went something like "Student-Athletes are amateurs because they aren't paid, and they can't be paid because they're amateurs". The court found the NCAA's circular logic to be unconvincing.

Just a reminder and clarification: athletes have ALWAYS been paid.

Wether through scholarship or room and board, or nutrition and fitness programs, or educational advisement, or other athlete perks, these young people have received a fine share before they are even considered adults.

So if we’re even to have any considered debate about “payment”, let’s dispense with any notion that these people are not ever paid. Which, in fact, is the false narrative that gave rise to NIL, in all its false pretense, to begin with.

Stop saying athletes aren’t paid — it’s an ignorant lie.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Just a reminder and clarification: athletes have ALWAYS been paid.

Wether through scholarship or room and board, or nutrition and fitness programs, or educational advisement, or other athlete perks, these young people have received a fine share before they are even considered adults.

So if we’re even to have any considered debate about “payment”, let’s dispense with any notion that these people are not ever paid. Which, in fact, is the false narrative that gave rise to NIL, in all its false pretense, to begin with.

Stop saying athletes aren’t paid — it’s an ignorant lie.

Okay, let's then say that players are now getting paid commensurate with their value to a system that has gone from a gate-centric value-based system to a media contract-centric value-based system.

In 1987, GT got $0 from the ACC for football games. Student-athletes got the equivalent of $2,400 for in-state tuition and R&B on top of that. Maybe $4000.
In 2024, GT got $35MM+ from the ACC for the media rights and the student-athletes got approximately $15k in tuition and R&B + $6k in cost of attendance. (round numbers from memory, don't nitpick over an order of magnitude)

If you don't see the issue with that, I'm not sure there is a discussion.

Personally, I don't like NIL or student-athletes being paid for play. But, that's my issue and I'll own it. The NCAA and conferences created this monster by their greed. We will all suffer accordingly.

PS: the only payment the players were receiving was the cost of attendance stipend. The rest of what you describe as payment is an intangible trade-in-kind. The value of the product they provided skyrocketed and the ownership (re: NCAA, conferences, and universities) benefited while the student-athletes did not. There is no equity there.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

No, you've got a real hot take here and in the other thread you were posting in, and you seem to be lumping different responses all together.

My comment was that I trust the coaches to decide who they want to go after and who they are willing to pass on. I'm sure there is communication between the NIL groups and the coaching staff. Whether that is legal or illegal, doesn't matter. Nothing is enforceable right now. The NCAA is afraid to try to enforce anything right now because they'll be taken to Court and a ruling against them (a la Tennessee or Virginia) will further undercut their authority.

So, if our coaches think that a 5* OL is our biggest need (whether for the perception in recruiting or actually on the field), I trust them to make the correct decision. J Batt is probably in the middle of that, as well.

If you don't like what you're seeing happening, you might just want to take a hiatus because it's not going anywhere soon, right or wrong.

You’ve always got great takes that we all appreciate here, and from me absolutely.

But I think you’ve underscored a central element with respect that the money involved in this really has nothing to do with the individual. Although I’m sure they’re more than happy to get this money.

But if has to do with a system that’s playing with arbitrarily designated money that wasn’t designed for this.

To your point: if Coach Key were given $800k to do with whatever, and he decided to go all-in with one kid— well, that’s his call and I’d support that.

But I don’t think that’s what we’re dealing with. Rather, it’s an uncontrolled system and we’re fighting insurmountable odds. So whereas we got one kid — ONE — to bite, I don’t see anyway that this is sustainable and it’s a path to absolute failure.

So if I could take offense to any of your reply: I won’t take hiatus or give in. Because what’s happening broadly is too important and I have nothing to lose by caring too much. Peace

 

[forensicbuzz]

You’ve always got great takes that we all appreciate here, and from me absolutely.

But I think you’ve underscored a central element with respect that the money involved in this really has nothing to do with the individual. Although I’m sure they’re more than happy to get this money.

But if has to do with a system that’s playing with arbitrarily designated money that wasn’t designed for this.

To your point: if Coach Key were given $800k to do with whatever, and he decided to go all-in with one kid— well, that’s his call and I’d support that.

But I don’t think that’s what we’re dealing with. Rather, it’s an uncontrolled system and we’re fighting insurmountable odds. So whereas we got one kid — ONE — to bite, I don’t see anyway that this is sustainable and it’s a path to absolute failure.

So if I could take offense to any of your reply: I won’t take hiatus or give in. Because what’s happening broadly is too important and I have nothing to lose by caring too much. Peace

Whole-heartedly agree with the highlighted. This is going to get worse before it gets better. Don't know the solution, but it will spiral until it self-destructs. Not sure whether GT can play this game until it implodes or not.

I suggested the hiatus for your own sanity, not anything else.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

I don't understand how you can be so bitter and angry at someone for this. While I'm not too fond of NIL and think it undermines the STUDENT Athlete position. I also recognize that GT needs to function as a modern football team. No one is twisting your arm to donate. And no one is saying you're a good or bad fan for doing so or not.

But what does make you a bad fan and someone that people don't think highly of is disparaging and cursing HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL PLAYERS WHO COMMITTED TO GT. Like dude? He's a 5* player that has worked his butt off to earn his rank, and he's getting paid for it. Good for him, if only we all could get paid that much for doing what we love. I mean it's even been reported that he gave a hometown discount to us. So it wasn't even a shakedown! He had us pay less than other schools offered!

Be angry about NIL, be upset that it undermines student athletics. That's okay. But don't take it out on the players who are just doing what's best for them. Josh Petty isn't a villain for taking money. But if anyone is a villain here it's the NCAA and Congress that let this stuff go unchecked. But we will not be trashing high school players for this sort of thing. It's uncalled for. End of Story.

I don’t disagree. Just see my other posts. And interchange X person with Y person and realize it’s not about any specific recruit

And there’s no reason to have Congress (wtf?) involved. But the overly padded conference and school leadership (oh, and let’s talk about college tuition sometime) are to blame. There is no plan, no accountability anywhere in this.

Also: just to be clear, as soon as “high school players” sign up for this sort of ridiculous compensation in advance for nothing .. let’s be clear and specific that they are NO LONGER high school players. Stop with that ****. End of story.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

Whole-heartedly agree with the highlighted. This is going to get worse before it gets better. Don't know the solution, but it will spiral until it self-destructs. Not sure whether GT can play this game until it implodes or not.

I suggested the hiatus for your own sanity, not anything else.

I love beer. I love truth and righteousness.

Should I have one, or the other?
Or face the impending doom?

 

[stinger78]

Also: just to be clear, as soon as “high school players” sign up for this sort of ridiculous compensation in advance for nothing .. let’s be clear and specific that they are NO LONGER high school players. Stop with that ****. End of story.

This is already happening. Yep, HS players are asking for and getting NIL. Just google HS football NIL. It will make you sick.

 

[roadkill]

Finally, the money got so large that players wanted a share of the purse. If their coaches were making millions, why not them?

This is a common misconception about the root cause of the NIL rulings. OBannon was about EA Sports using players' image and likeness for their video games without compensation to the athletes because the NCAA wouldn't allow it. EA Sports and the Collegiate Licensing Company settled out of court but the NCAA stuck to their guns. They lost the case, resulting in athletes now being allowed to have paid sponsorships, agents, etc. Why did they lose the case? Because the NCAA's "amateurism" rules were clearly illegal.

There is a tie here to the recently released NCAA 2025 video game. The last prior release of the game was 2014. EA Sports had to wait until the fog had cleared on NIL payments to athletes before releasing a new one. All our FB players whose names and likenesses were used in the game got $600 checks, something that the NCAA wouldn't have allowed earlier.

unwritten legal notion

I'm not following you here. How is an "unwritten notion" legal? By NCAA decree?

Some posters have taken the position that an athlete's scholarship and ancillary benefits are ample compensation. I get that, but you're missing the point. The legal issue isn't that athletes were denied any compensation at all, but instead that they were illegally prohibited via the NCAA's monopoly power from any additional compensation, such as for someone using their image in a promotion or product. The NCAA was essentially saying "Here's your compensation in the form of a scholarship - if you don't like it and think you're entitled to more, too bad because we won't allow it."

The fact that "NIL" has now become code for what is arguably "pay to play" and is potentially bringing a host of other issues to the sport doesn't take away from the fact that the NCAA had been getting away with an illegal restraint of trade for years. Had they been proactive instead of reactive, they might have been able to get ahead of the issue and mitigate the mess it has become.

 

[slugboy]

This is a common misconception about the root cause of the NIL rulings. OBannon was about EA Sports using players' image and likeness for their video games without compensation to the athletes because the NCAA wouldn't allow it. EA Sports and the Collegiate Licensing Company settled out of court but the NCAA stuck to their guns. They lost the case, resulting in athletes now being allowed to have paid sponsorships, agents, etc. Why did they lose the case? Because the NCAA's "amateurism" rules were clearly illegal.

There is a tie here to the recently released NCAA 2025 video game. The last prior release of the game was 2014. EA Sports had to wait until the fog had cleared on NIL payments to athletes before releasing a new one. All our FB players whose names and likenesses were used in the game got $600 checks, something that the NCAA wouldn't have allowed earlier.


I'm not following you here. How is an "unwritten notion" legal? By NCAA decree?

Some posters have taken the position that an athlete's scholarship and ancillary benefits are ample compensation. I get that, but you're missing the point. The legal issue isn't that athletes were denied any compensation at all, but instead that they were illegally prohibited via the NCAA's monopoly power from any additional compensation, such as for someone using their image in a promotion or product. The NCAA was essentially saying "Here's your compensation in the form of a scholarship - if you don't like it and think you're entitled to more, too bad because we won't allow it."

The fact that "NIL" has now become code for what is arguably "pay to play" and is potentially bringing a host of other issues to the sport doesn't take away from the fact that the NCAA had been getting away with an illegal restraint of trade for years. Had they been proactive instead of reactive, they might have been able to get ahead of the issue and mitigate the mess it has become.

Not only did the NCAA say “we will set and limit your benefits everywhere” but they also said “you are an amateur, but you’re also under a noncompete and no moonlighting agreement. This is not a job, but you can’t take a job”.

The current situation has all sorts of problems. The previous situation was bad too, but it didn’t gore our oxen—just the players.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Musical and forensic, both great posts. But please remember your angst of today over this system is the same angst many, like me, have felt all throughout our college football fandom. That you guys are now waking up to the absolute corrupt system doesn’t mean the system will implode or is not sustainable. I’ve been hoping it would implode for over 30 years now because watching these schools beat their chest over bought and paid for National and conference titles has made me puke for decades.

NIL is just the latest iteration and schools will have to decide how they want to handle this iteration just like they had to decide on how nice to make their athletic dorms, meal halls, and bagmen. Schools like GT obviously decided not to play the bagman and facilities game on the level of others and we have paid a dear price going from a top 10 program to an afterthought. NIL simply takes away the worry of getting smacked by the NCAA if a school does decide to enter the bagman fray. Clearly, GT has, which is why we are about to have one of the top recruiting classes in our history.

But the money and fans are there so the sport itself is not going to implode and the model is clearly sustainable because there will always be fans willing to spend their disposable cash to win a game. Sure, some fans may be disgusted enough to walk away, but right now today we have portal guys all over the starting lineup and we have NIL guys all over the starting lineup and I don’t see an6 GT fans looking to boycott next Saturday.