New recruit Petty $800,000 per year NIL

[forensicbuzz]

Is an annual NIL salary cap needed?

If so, would it work?

I dunno.

Thought I’d ask.

Some food for thought:

If NIL Money Isn't Capped College Sports Could Become Corporate Sports

With no cap on NIL money, and corporations getting into the NIL game, college athletic programs may have to find a corporate sugar daddy or fade into irrelevance.

247sports.com

Without collective bargaining, it would be collusion and restraint of trade.

 

[cpf2001]

Anything money related should never follow the WNBA.

Besides Clark is making more money off her nike deal than the entire league makes in salaries.

Yes, that’s viewed as a legitimate endorsement and allowed under their CBA. The question was about what you could do with a CBA more generally and they have one of the more interesting ones due to the resource constraints.

 

[jgtengineer]

Yes, that’s viewed as a legitimate endorsement and allowed under their CBA. The question was about what you could do with a CBA more generally and they have one of the more interesting ones due to the resource constraints.

What im sayign is that league has been mismanaged so bad, it would surprise me if they just have a list of endorses which is anti capitalist and limiting what sort of endorsements those girls can get based on something political. There are no restrictions on regular students ability to make money there can't be one on the SA. However there can be one on the amount they can be given for representing the school itself.

 

[cpf2001]

What im sayign is that league has been mismanaged so bad, it would surprise me if they just have a list of endorses which is anti capitalist and limiting what sort of endorsements those girls can get based on something political. There are no restrictions on regular students ability to make money there can't be one on the SA. However there can be one on the amount they can be given for representing the school itself.

It’s literally not that lol, it’s literally a way to try to prevent circumventing the cap… the claim that a CBA couldn’t be interested in outside activities doesn’t stand up based on what other CBA’s do.

 

[jgtengineer]

It’s literally not that lol, it’s literally a way to try to prevent circumventing the cap… the claim that a CBA couldn’t be interested in outside activities doesn’t stand up based on what other CBA’s do.

And who are you going to trust to enforce it fairly?

 

[cpf2001]

And who are you going to trust to enforce it fairly?

In college football? Haha nobody right now, basically.

The ratio of haves to have nots would have to shift a bit more with further realignment/“demotion” so that the middle of the pack schools are more incentivized to police the super elites instead of looking to hold onto advantages compared to the lower tier of FBS. A 60 team division might be interesting there.

 

[RonJohn]

Sorry, my point is they're not employees any more than any other student involved in an extracurricular activity. This has nothing to do with what benefits should be made available to student-athletes. Read my response to @Ibeeballin

How many other extracurricular activities at universities recruit "students" primarily for that extracurricular activity and then have them do the pesky student business in order to remain eligible for the extracurricular activity?

At the majority of P4 schools, football players are not recruited as students, or even as student-athletes. They are recruited by the football team exclusively to play football. Many if not a majority of them would not qualify to get into the schools without excemptions from the athletic department. Even at UGA, the average SAT is somewhere around 1300. At UNC the acceptance rate for students is 17%, and the average SAT score is around 1400. No disrespect meant to the football players, but they do not represent the typical student.

Let's pick another activity, stick with sports and say GT Crew. I don't think they recruit people specifically to row. I don't think they get exemptions for admittance of people to the school. I don't think they have mandatory daily workouts and mandatory meal times. I don't think they have mandatory study hall. i don't think they have "voluntary" film sessions. I would think they have practice, and if you don't show up for practice enough, then they won't let you compete. It is an entirely voluntary activity for students who got into the school on their own.

Football players are recruited specifically to play football. Many would not be accepted to school without an exemption. They have their daily schedule dictated to them. They have mandatory meal times, mandatory study sessions, mandatory workouts, and mandatory practice. In addition they have mandatory/"voluntary" film study, additional workouts, etc. They also have a support structure that helps them keep up with and do well in classes. That is important to some who would not be accepted into school on their own. If they quit or are kicked off of the team, they would lose that support system, and could not succeed at school. There is very little similarity between the college experience of crew member and a football player.

 

[forensicbuzz]

How many other extracurricular activities at universities recruit "students" primarily for that extracurricular activity and then have them do the pesky student business in order to remain eligible for the extracurricular activity?

At the majority of P4 schools, football players are not recruited as students, or even as student-athletes. They are recruited by the football team exclusively to play football. Many if not a majority of them would not qualify to get into the schools without excemptions from the athletic department. Even at UGA, the average SAT is somewhere around 1300. At UNC the acceptance rate for students is 17%, and the average SAT score is around 1400. No disrespect meant to the football players, but they do not represent the typical student.

Let's pick another activity, stick with sports and say GT Crew. I don't think they recruit people specifically to row. I don't think they get exemptions for admittance of people to the school. I don't think they have mandatory daily workouts and mandatory meal times. I don't think they have mandatory study hall. i don't think they have "voluntary" film sessions. I would think they have practice, and if you don't show up for practice enough, then they won't let you compete. It is an entirely voluntary activity for students who got into the school on their own.

Football players are recruited specifically to play football. Many would not be accepted to school without an exemption. They have their daily schedule dictated to them. They have mandatory meal times, mandatory study sessions, mandatory workouts, and mandatory practice. In addition they have mandatory/"voluntary" film study, additional workouts, etc. They also have a support structure that helps them keep up with and do well in classes. That is important to some who would not be accepted into school on their own. If they quit or are kicked off of the team, they would lose that support system, and could not succeed at school. There is very little similarity between the college experience of crew member and a football player.

All students recruited, regardless of their extracurricular activity, are expected to be students. Most all have mandatory requirements that can't be missed. None of the rest of this is relevant.

As for your example, not really a good one. One of my neighbor's kids was recruited to the University of Delaware on a crew scholarship. He was required to do all those things you're assuming he didn't have to do. The same holds true for certain highly recruited musicians (think violin or cello) or any other highly sought-after student-activity.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

All these are awesome ideas, but you gotta remember this one simple golden never changing constant - no matter what system any of you implement teams and schools will cheat that system.

That is why I support a system with essentially no rules. I have lived my entire life with a college football system that was corrupt with uneven enforcement of the rules which shifted wins and losses based on which team was willing to not follow the rules. Whether it was extra hours of practice, playing players with poor grades, paying players thru inducements, spying on the other team, hiring extra coaches with fake titles, etc.

I want a system with no rules. The portal and NIL will self police. If you want to have a team with 200 players go ahead and try. If you don’t want them to attend class, go ahead. If you want to pay out 100 million per year go ahead. If you want to have 35 coaches go ahead. At least in my dream scenario, no one is unnecessarily punished, and everyone can do the same thing as everyone else. That’s about as fair a system as you’ll ever get. Any other system will be manipulated.

And as a poster already stated - “who is going to enforce the future rules evenly”? We all know the answer - no one.

 

[RonJohn]

All students recruited, regardless of their extracurricular activity, are expected to be students. Most all have mandatory requirements that can't be missed. None of the rest of this is relevant.

Tell that to UGA or UNC. Many if not most NCAA football teams do the minimum to keep their players eligible. Some even fire profs for complaining about passing a football player who actually failed, or set up fake degrees with fake classes to keep their players eligible. Some even threaten SA victims to keep those football players on their teams after committing SA multiple times on campus.

IF NCAA teams treated their football players like students, then you would have a point. I agree with you that NCAA teams should treat football players like other students. They currently do not. Until they do, your idea of what a college football player is, is only a fantasy about how things should be.

 

[jojatk]

This is where the hypocrisy comes.

BTW when I said that there's very little similarity to my daughter and the players despite both being on scholarship was 100% meant to indicate that there are a LOT more requirements besides going to class and doing schoolwork put on the players that are NOT put on my daughter. I know this comment wasn't addressed to me but I just wanted to make sure it was understood where I was coming from.

I messed up the quoting so this part is in response to @forensicbuzz regarding the comment about having mandatory requirements that can't be missed:

My daughter's scholarship is academic so her requirements are based on maintaining a certain level of academic achievement (grades). The athletes have many more mandatory activities to maintain their scholarships than my daughter has. The volume of mandatory requirements is completely relevant. I'm not suggesting anything about whether the athletes should or should not be considered employees. That's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm only addressing the assertion that each group having mandatory requirements makes them the same or even similar. I just feel like your points don't account for how different the student-athlete experience is versus non athlete students. Maybe there was a time when they were much more similar but it's long gone. And also it's possible I'm completely missing your point and mischaracterizing what you've said and if so I apologize in advance.

 

[CEB]

All these are awesome ideas, but you gotta remember this one simple golden never changing constant - no matter what system any of you implement teams and schools will cheat that system.

That is why I support a system with essentially no rules. I have lived my entire life with a college football system that was corrupt with uneven enforcement of the rules which shifted wins and losses based on which team was willing to not follow the rules. Whether it was extra hours of practice, playing players with poor grades, paying players thru inducements, spying on the other team, hiring extra coaches with fake titles, etc.

I want a system with no rules. The portal and NIL will self police. If you want to have a team with 200 players go ahead and try. If you don’t want them to attend class, go ahead. If you want to pay out 100 million per year go ahead. If you want to have 35 coaches go ahead. At least in my dream scenario, no one is unnecessarily punished, and everyone can do the same thing as everyone else. That’s about as fair a system as you’ll ever get. Any other system will be manipulated.

And as a poster already stated - “who is going to enforce the future rules evenly”? We all know the answer - no one.

You’ll appreciate this…

Oklahoma State to Wear NIL Fund QR Codes on Helmets in 2024 - Oklahoma State University Athletics

STILLWATER – Oklahoma State football coach Mike Gundy announced that the Cowboys will wear QR codes on their helmets this season that link to the general tea...

okstate.com

I mean, why not? Catch the fans in the heat of the moment! I can only imagine how much money would’ve been flying at Haynes King and Christian Leary at the end of the U game…

 

[roadkill]

That's why it's called being a "full-time" student. The anticipation is that between class time and study time, the effort is going to be at least 40 hours per week. School is your full-time job. Most students are full-time students. Bottom line, athletes are not employees of the university. They are students involved in extracurricular activities at a varsity level.

The two are not mutually exclusive as you imply. I was a full-time student and a part-time employee, and at other times I was a full-time employee and a part-time student. You can be both.

It doesn't matter if you study 100 hours a week. If you also do work that fits the definition of employee, you are an employee in addition to being a student.

A key part of the distinction between employee and contractor is one's ability to make independent decisions about your work. When, where, etc. Football players are subjected to a strict regimen on these things with little room to deviate outside of what their coach tells them.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The two are not mutually exclusive as you imply. I was a full-time student and a part-time employee, and at other times I was a full-time employee and a part-time student. You can be both.

It doesn't matter if you study 100 hours a week. If you also do work that fits the definition of employee, you are an employee in addition to being a student.

A key part of the distinction between employee and contractor is one's ability to make independent decisions about your work. When, where, etc. Football players are subjected to a strict regimen on these things with little room to deviate outside of what their coach tells them.

I wasn't implying anything of the sort. Being a college football player, regardless of how hard or demanding it is, is not a "job" in the sense of being employed. It is possible that the GT Band could implement all types of mandatory requirements to maintain membership in the band. That wouldn't change being a member of an extracurricular team to a job. There is nothing mandatory about being on the football team.

I highly doubt there is anything anyone can say that will change that for me. (and this opinion is independent of money)

 

[forensicbuzz]

You’ll appreciate this…

Oklahoma State to Wear NIL Fund QR Codes on Helmets in 2024 - Oklahoma State University Athletics

STILLWATER – Oklahoma State football coach Mike Gundy announced that the Cowboys will wear QR codes on their helmets this season that link to the general tea...

okstate.com

I mean, why not? Catch the fans in the heat of the moment! I can only imagine how much money would’ve been flying at Haynes King and Christian Leary at the end of the U game…

I thought there were rules about things on uniforms and helmets...never mind.

 

[stinger78]

The two are not mutually exclusive as you imply. I was a full-time student and a part-time employee, and at other times I was a full-time employee and a part-time student. You can be both.

It doesn't matter if you study 100 hours a week. If you also do work that fits the definition of employee, you are an employee in addition to being a student.

A key part of the distinction between employee and contractor is one's ability to make independent decisions about your work. When, where, etc. Football players are subjected to a strict regimen on these things with little room to deviate outside of what their coach tells them.

What does independent decisions mean. When to work and when not? When I was a contractor, yes, I did that. I still can so it to an extent because I’m remote, but I do end up working nights and weekends some. I just refer to it as flex time.
So now that NIL is hitting HS players, they don’t have flexibility either. Employees?

 

[roadkill]

I wasn't implying anything of the sort. Being a college football player, regardless of how hard or demanding it is, is not a "job" in the sense of being employed. It is possible that the GT Band could implement all types of mandatory requirements to maintain membership in the band. That wouldn't change being a member of an extracurricular team to a job. There is nothing mandatory about being on the football team.

I highly doubt there is anything anyone can say that will change that for me. (and this opinion is independent of money)

How do you define a "job"? And what does "mandatory" have to do with it? Sometimes I skipped classes - but I remained a student. Do you have a job that so is mandatory that you can't ever stop doing it? Or are you saying there must be mandatory requirements for you to consider it a job? Let a football player stop showing up for practices or games and see how long they stay on the team.

Soon, perhaps next season, the House settlement will allow, or perhaps require, schools to make direct NIL payments to their athletes. So then you will have:

• Athletes reporting to a location determined by the coach/school to perform a service.
• Athletes performing this service with little to no independent authority over when, how, and for how long it is done.
• If athletes fail to adhere to the above requirements, they lose the opportunity to perform the service (get "fired").
• In return for performing the services, athletes are being compensated by various benefits.
• Athletes being compensated monetarily by the school for the use of their name, image, or likeness.

I'm going by the current IRS definition, but if I were to argue against these athletes being employees, I would most likely latch on to the NIL payments as being disassociated from the services they perform for the school. But I think that is a weak argument. And you are entitled to your opinion - I'm just stating the situation from the standpoint of how the IRS defines it.

 

[roadkill]

How do you define a "job"? And what does "mandatory" have to do with it? Sometimes I skipped classes - but I remained a student. Do you have a job that so is mandatory that you can't ever stop doing it? Or are you saying there must be mandatory requirements for you to consider it a job? Let a football player stop showing up for practices or games and see how long they stay on the team.

Soon, perhaps next season, the House settlement will allow, or perhaps require, schools to make direct NIL payments to their athletes. So then you will have:

• Athletes reporting to a location determined by the coach/school to perform a service.
• Athletes performing this service with little to no independent authority over when, how, and for how long it is done.
• If athletes fail to adhere to the above requirements, they lose the opportunity to perform the service (get "fired").
• In return for performing the services, athletes are being compensated by various benefits.
• Athletes being compensated monetarily by the school for the use of their name, image, or likeness.

I'm going by the current IRS definition, but if I were to argue against these athletes being employees, I would most likely latch on to the NIL payments as being disassociated from the services they perform for the school. But I think that is a weak argument. And you are entitled to your opinion - I'm just stating the situation from the standpoint of how the IRS defines it.

Too late to edit my previous post but after revisiting the latest info on this, direct payments to players are not just for NIL under the House settlement - there's a revenue-sharing aspect to the settlement that seems like the players would be paid just for being on the team. It's not clear exactly how this will be structured, but that's another item on the "they're employees" list.

I'm not saying this is good - just reporting the facts. This is going to be a seismic shift in college sports.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

You’ll appreciate this…

Oklahoma State to Wear NIL Fund QR Codes on Helmets in 2024 - Oklahoma State University Athletics

STILLWATER – Oklahoma State football coach Mike Gundy announced that the Cowboys will wear QR codes on their helmets this season that link to the general tea...

okstate.com

I mean, why not? Catch the fans in the heat of the moment! I can only imagine how much money would’ve been flying at Haynes King and Christian Leary at the end of the U game…

I think this is the kind of out of the box thinking that smart schools should be doing. Just like Cal putting up billboards.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I'm not saying this is good - just reporting the facts. This is going to be a seismic shift in college sports.

I hear you and get it. But the seismic shift stuff has been happening for a long time. You know what was a real seismic shift that created haves and have nots and led to decades of fake Nattys? Paying players under the table while the NCAA played blind. This led to the emergence of a caste system that was policed by the NCAA. Anything, from NIL to employment status, that stops the caste system and creates a system free of underhanded dealing is fine by me. And if teams are willing to pay 100 million while my beloved GT only pays 5 million then so be it. At least everyone will know the TRUTH and it won’t be painted as if we just stink while their coaches are gods. The entire sport has been a fraud perpetrated by the NCAA and media who simply acted as if these players just magically signed with these schools. At least now the announcers and media will be free to say the truth.