New recruit Petty $800,000 per year NIL

[forensicbuzz]

I trust our coaches.

 

[stinger78]

How is that different from an NFL team guaranteeing tens of millions to a 1st round draft pick who has proven nothing at the NFL level? In 2007, JeMarcus Russell was picked #1 in the NFL draft and had a contract guarantee of $31.5 million. He was a bust in the NFL.

How is that different from a VC putting $1 million into a startup that hasn't made a profit, and doesn't actually have their product finished yet? This happens all of the time. VCs try to get into multiple companies. They know that many or most of them will be busts. They are hoping that at least one of them will skyrocket and make up for all of the failures.

It appears that you are thinking about things from a consumer standpoint. I myself analyze things before I purchase them. I want to get a car at a good price that will be comfortable enough and will have low maintenance costs. From a sports player acquisition perspective, you can't use that type of analysis. You have to build a team based on projections. Do you believe that this player will have the ability to play well? Do you believe that this player will fit into the culture on the team? Do you believe that this player will be able to thrive at your school? If you wait until the players have all played, and you know what they can do, they will not be on your team. You might not like that a kid straight out of HS is making a lot of money, but that doesn't matter. From a coach's standpoint, he has to build the best team he can build. The alternative is to understand that you will not win.

If you cannot see that at face value then it is useless to debate the point. We just have divergent viewpoints. That’s OK.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I don’t think GT is out of line with others in college football. My issue is college football has gone bat-crap mad and GT is now there, too.

Paying a fresh out of HS player, an 18-year-old - even a very good one - $800/year is bat-crap mad. Period. I don’t think that is really even disputable.

Think of all the world-changing professionals, who do actual work to advance society, who are still doing quite well, yet who don’t make but a fraction of that.

IMPO, it is a sign of a sickness in our society. Why is it so important that GT, or any other university, have a football program that wins, such that it makes us stoop to that level of bat-crap craziness?

All I can do is SMH.

Look at the HS signing bonuses for MLB. Those 17/18-year-old kids are getting much more. This is nothing new, it’s just new to CFB.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

This is such a terrible take. It matters bc millions of people pay to watch it and eventually the money flows into the hands of the players. It matters so much that you’re on a message board talking to other fans about it

He is just making a comment on society in general. I happen to agree with his take. As a society, we have whacked out priorities big time.

 

[jojatk]

LOL @ terrible take. SMH.

Paying a guy barely out of HS $800K a year who has proven *nothing* at the college level is stupid at face value. You can love it all you want, to me, it just reveals misplaced values.

Now, TBH, I have no problem “paying” college athletes for their performance. The 6-figure value of an education, plus all the perks, was a very nice remuneration package for them. It had great lifelong worth.

Allowing bidding wars at the level of $800K a year is decadent beyond measure, IMPO.

You and all the rest of us have made it very clear for many years that we will pay a lot of money for entertainment. Not necessarily individually (I’m not accusing anyone of having skewed values so please don’t take it as such). But as a whole we pay for cable, we apparently watch enough commercials, we click on enough of the ads, we pay for internet and access to videos and sports and movies and series of all kinds. We go to concerts and shows.

What is the value to the GT football program of having every outlet announcing that we had gotten a 5* recruit that many other schools wanted. It was on the ESPN ticker during the baseball game. It was on every twitter feed. Everyone following recruiting saw it. How might that help our stature in getting OTHER high profile recruits to actually give us the time of day (assuming we actually perform well on the field, if we flop then it doesn’t matter). IMHO the high figure, whatever it truly is, for Petty is about more than just getting him to GT but about upping our visibility and of course our competitiveness. Yes it sounds like a ridiculously high amount. Won’t argue with anyone about that. I do think it’s about more than just Josh Petty, though.

 

[stinger 1957]

NIL is what will finally bring parity. I love it. The top players will now have more than the usual top 10 schools offering them money. And the top teams no longer have the NCAA to protect their bag men system. Saban recognized it and retired and is now very vocal because he sees that the stranglehold Bama and others had on the NCAA Enforcement office is over because the NCAA is now a toothless tiger. It’s freaking awesome. I’m gonna really enjoy watching these big state, mostly rural schools, who have ruled the system for decades now seeing their huge advantage of a payment system negated. Sure, they’ll still buy players but the market for those players has just quadrupled so guys like Petty will be picked off one by one. If this were 6 years ago Petty would have been given a bag of Benjamins and would have signed with Clemson, FSU, UGA, or Bama. But now, he can actually get cash AND an education.

Seems to me that the schools that are in the larger population mkts now have the advantage. GT now offers Atlanta and a GT degree when their FB career is over and they start a new career. It was of note to me that Gibbs when leaving 'bama heading to the pros made a point of saying something positive about GT, i expect he would like to have the option of coming back to ATL and finishing his life after FB, being connected was important IMO.

 

[stinger78]

You and all the rest of us have made it very clear for many years that we will pay a lot of money for entertainment. Not necessarily individually (I’m not accusing anyone of having skewed values so please don’t take it as such). But as a whole we pay for cable, we apparently watch enough commercials, we click on enough of the ads, we pay for internet and access to videos and sports and movies and series of all kinds. We go to concerts and shows.

What is the value to the GT football program of having every outlet announcing that we had gotten a 5* recruit that many other schools wanted. It was on the ESPN ticker during the baseball game. It was on every twitter feed. Everyone following recruiting saw it. How might that help our stature in getting OTHER high profile recruits to actually give us the time of day (assuming we actually perform well on the field, if we flop then it doesn’t matter). IMHO the high figure, whatever it truly is, for Petty is about more than just getting him to GT but about upping our visibility and of course our competitiveness. Yes it sounds like a ridiculously high amount. Won’t argue with anyone about that. I do think it’s about more than just Josh Petty, though.

Two responses: First it’s definitely not about Josh Petty, or about GT so much. It’s the state of CFB. I am very concerned that it is unsustainable. That in itself is not a bad thing. We just have no idea where it will land after that. I’ll likely be long gone by then.

Second, paying maybe $1000/year for entertainment spread over cable/streaming, theater, sports tickets, etc. We do pay a lot for entertainment. I don’t think, though, that is a real good analog for what is happening in CFB. Just my $.02 worth.

 

[roadkill]

Two responses: First it’s definitely not about Josh Petty, or about GT so much. It’s the state of CFB. I am very concerned that it is unsustainable. That in itself is not a bad thing. We just have no idea where it will land after that. I’ll likely be long gone by then.

Second, paying maybe $1000/year for entertainment spread over cable/streaming, theater, sports tickets, etc. We do pay a lot for entertainment. I don’t think, though, that is a real good analog for what is happening in CFB. Just my $.02 worth.

If your concern is over the unsustainability of this level of compensation and its implications for CFB in the future, I am in general agreement. I started a thread on this very topic a couple of years ago. I include coaching salaries in that discussion as well.

I'm not at the point where I'm ready to extrapolate this unsustainability to an indictment of modern society's priorities. If 100 million fans donate $10 annually to CFB, that's a billion dollars going to entertainment that could have been better spent elsewhere for something like cancer research, for example. But we don't know that these fans aren't also giving more than $10/yr to cancer research. Alternatively, if a few extremely wealthy individuals were propping the vast majority of the funding going into NIL and coaching salaries, while also giving even more generously to cancer research, would you be ok with that?

To be fair, there are some fans, particularly those of the SEC, who are viewed as preferring to give all their hard-earned disposable income to their favorite team, even if the result is missing their trailer payment. So, yeah, I question their priorities.

 

[jojatk]

Two responses: First it’s definitely not about Josh Petty, or about GT so much. It’s the state of CFB. I am very concerned that it is unsustainable. That in itself is not a bad thing. We just have no idea where it will land after that. I’ll likely be long gone by then.

Second, paying maybe $1000/year for entertainment spread over cable/streaming, theater, sports tickets, etc. We do pay a lot for entertainment. I don’t think, though, that is a real good analog for what is happening in CFB. Just my $.02 worth.

It's not meant as an analog. It's meant to say we pay a lot for entertainment. Sports is entertainment. The dollar figures involved are astronomical. And now the college athletes are some of the ones getting some of that money. No analogy at all intended. The money is coming from how much we all spend on entertainment and that includes all the fees we pay for access and all the products we buy that sponsor those sports events and those entertainment events and the athletes and the venues and the leagues. It includes all the ads we click on and the money the sponsors are making from the visibility. I'm not justifying it or trying to make it more palatable.

My point about it not being just about Josh Petty was more about what Josh Petty's recruiting means for GT and that, to me, his specific recruitment could mean far more to GT than just his play on the field.

BTW I have read your posts long enough to know that you are happy about having Josh Petty coming to GT and that you're not at all complaining about that and I hope nothing I've said has come out as criticism of you or your opinion because none of that is intended.

 

[roadkill]

Ok so this is meant to be entirely tongue in cheek, but all this discussion about huge NIL amounts got me thinking. Perhaps we should have a poll for the pain threshold at which each of us thinks an elite recruit or player’s total compensation is out of line with the sustainability of CFB.
My proposed poll thresholds:

• Zero – and we should follow the Ivy League’s example in not granting scholarships either. Let them pay for the privilege of getting a great education, just like I did.
• A Grant-in-Aid of the value of a scholarship, with perhaps a small cost of attendance stipend. Players must be unpaid amateurs, and they are amateurs because they don’t get paid (NCAA's argument to Supreme Court).
• $10k annually. Probably below minimum wage on an hourly basis, but they should be thankful they’re getting a great education for free.
• $50k annually. Now we’re talking. They can help Mom/Dad make that down payment on a new home.
• $100k annually. Wait, that’s more than the average graduate’s initial salary!
• $500k annually. Better hope that we have a positive ROI on these mega-stars via improved ticket sales!
• Unlimited, as long as it’s less than our head coach’s salary. After all, our football coaches’ salary pool is only around $12M annually, not counting the $3M+ annually we are paying a coach not to coach.

 

[stinger78]

If your concern is over the unsustainability of this level of compensation and its implications for CFB in the future, I am in general agreement. I started a thread on this very topic a couple of years ago. I include coaching salaries in that discussion as well.

I'm not at the point where I'm ready to extrapolate this unsustainability to an indictment of modern society's priorities. If 100 million fans donate $10 annually to CFB, that's a billion dollars going to entertainment that could have been better spent elsewhere for something like cancer research, for example. But we don't know that these fans aren't also giving more than $10/yr to cancer research. Alternatively, if a few extremely wealthy individuals were propping the vast majority of the funding going into NIL and coaching salaries, while also giving even more generously to cancer research, would you be ok with that?

To be fair, there are some fans, particularly those of the SEC, who are viewed as preferring to give all their hard-earned disposable income to their favorite team, even if the result is missing their trailer payment. So, yeah, I question their priorities.

That’s the first of my concerns. CFB seems to me to be to be on the verge of sliding across the boundary into a chaotic system. I love CFB and hate to see these things happening.

Second, by no means is Josh to blame. Rumor is that he gave GT a hometown discount. If so, that speaks well of him. Perhaps he’ll invest it and set himself up for life. I hope so, and I have no idea.

Third, should he walk away from it? Not necessarily. I just turned down a raise at the start-up I’m part of because of my concern over sustainability and my main job pays the bills quite well. Far, far smaller amount than his offer. Not saying he should, that’s his business.

Fourth, what is the overall effect on his new teammates? We don’t know. It could be many things or it could be nothing at all.

Finally, what has brought CFB to this point so suddenly? IMPO, it is so many fans who would give their left nut for a winning football program. That’s the “societal” point. CFB doesn’t mean spit in the overall scheme of things, yet look at the resources we’re throwing at it. That’s the decadent part, IMHO.

 

[stinger78]

Look at the HS signing bonuses for MLB. Those 17/18-year-old kids are getting much more. This is nothing new, it’s just new to CFB.

That’s a professional sports franchise. If that’s what they want to pay, it on them to make it work. I get calls or emails every other week it seems from the GTAA now begging for money. It’s apples and oranges.

I am ready for colleges to break off into the Bush League Pro Division and the Real College Division. I can only hope GT would choose the right division.

 

[stinger78]

Ok so this is meant to be entirely tongue in cheek, but all this discussion about huge NIL amounts got me thinking. Perhaps we should have a poll for the pain threshold at which each of us thinks an elite recruit or player’s total compensation is out of line with the sustainability of CFB.
My proposed poll thresholds:

• Zero – and we should follow the Ivy League’s example in not granting scholarships either. Let them pay for the privilege of getting a great education, just like I did.
• A Grant-in-Aid of the value of a scholarship, with perhaps a small cost of attendance stipend. Players must be unpaid amateurs, and they are amateurs because they don’t get paid (NCAA's argument to Supreme Court).
• $10k annually. Probably below minimum wage on an hourly basis, but they should be thankful they’re getting a great education for free.
• $50k annually. Now we’re talking. They can help Mom/Dad make that down payment on a new home.
• $100k annually. Wait, that’s more than the average graduate’s initial salary!
• $500k annually. Better hope that we have a positive ROI on these mega-stars via improved ticket sales!
• Unlimited, as long as it’s less than our head coach’s salary. After all, our football coaches’ salary pool is only around $12M annually, not counting the $3M+ annually we are paying a coach not to coach.

I would say your second or third option.

 

[forensicbuzz]

That’s a professional sports franchise. If that’s what they want to pay, it on them to make it work. I get calls or emails every other week it seems from the GTAA now begging for money. It’s apples and oranges.

I am ready for colleges to break off into the Bush League Pro Division and the Real College Division. I can only hope GT would choose the right division.

My comment was in response to your talking about giving $800k to 17 and 18-year-olds. Doesn't matter where the money comes from; they're going to spend it the same way...stupidly. HS kids, untested at the next level, getting big dollars is not something new.

 

[roadkill]

My comment was in response to your talking about giving $800k to 17 and 18-year-olds. Doesn't matter where the money comes from; they're going to spend it the same way...stupidly. HS kids, untested at the next level, getting big dollars is not something new.

Youth is certainly a factor, but going pro in your 20s doesn't seem to be a barrier to blowing through your earnings either. I think one of our alums has even started a business for financial counseling of pro athletes, many of whom came from backgrounds with no grounding in how to handle an inrush of money.

 

[roadkill]

That’s the first of my concerns. CFB seems to me to be to be on the verge of sliding across the boundary into a chaotic system. I love CFB and hate to see these things happening.

Second, by no means is Josh to blame. Rumor is that he gave GT a hometown discount. If so, that speaks well of him. Perhaps he’ll invest it and set himself up for life. I hope so, and I have no idea.

Third, should he walk away from it? Not necessarily. I just turned down a raise at the start-up I’m part of because of my concern over sustainability and my main job pays the bills quite well. Far, far smaller amount than his offer. Not saying he should, that’s his business.

Fourth, what is the overall effect on his new teammates? We don’t know. It could be many things or it could be nothing at all.

Finally, what has brought CFB to this point so suddenly? IMPO, it is so many fans who would give their left nut for a winning football program. That’s the “societal” point. CFB doesn’t mean spit in the overall scheme of things, yet look at the resources we’re throwing at it. That’s the decadent part, IMHO.

I would argue that a) we already passed the threshold to a chaotic system, and it's just getting worse (which will continue due to recent court cases), and b) the incentive (financial pressure) for fans and boosters to throw more money at their programs in the interest of winning has been around for a long time. In the past, it was bagmen and under-the-table payments, then on top of that, the extreme escalation of coaching salaries over the last 20+ years. The 2021 Alston decision simply opened another valve to allow that additional pressure release in the form of NIL.

As a former Tallahassee resident, I remember the media splash and the ensuing concerns when the news broke in 1995 that Bobby Bowden's new contract would pay him $1M a year, making him not only the highest-paid coach but also the highest-paid state employee by a considerable margin. It was considered ridiculous by many, but soon everyone was following suit.

At this point, I've decided that I'm just along for the ride and may as well enjoy it.

 

[stinger78]

I would argue that a) we already passed the threshold to a chaotic system, and it's just getting worse (which will continue due to recent court cases), and b) the incentive (financial pressure) for fans and boosters to throw more money at their programs in the interest of winning has been around for a long time. In the past, it was bagmen and under-the-table payments, then on top of that, the extreme escalation of coaching salaries over the last 20+ years. The 2021 Alston decision simply opened another valve to allow that additional pressure release in the form of NIL.

As a former Tallahassee resident, I remember the media splash and the ensuing concerns when the news broke in 1995 that Bobby Bowden's new contract would pay him $1M a year, making him not only the highest-paid coach but also the highest-paid state employee by a considerable margin. It was considered ridiculous by many, but soon everyone was following suit.

At this point, I've decided that I'm just along for the ride and may as well enjoy it.

I hear you, but I don’t see a moral equivalence in giving $100 handshakes and (then) $15K cars and giving half a million $ plus.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Decadence was the downfall of more than one now extinct dominant civilization.

 

[roadkill]

I hear you, but I don’t see a moral equivalence in giving $100 handshakes and (then) $15K cars and giving half a million $ plus.

I was referencing the increasing pressure to push money into programs in the interest of winning. There isn't a moral equivalence. One is against the rules, one isn't.

 

[UgaBlows]

I get it that CFB is changing in a big way and almost everyone hates It, but who are we to say that the kids putting their health on the line don't deserve a piece of the massive $$$ that cfb brings in? Ultimately you can blame the supreme court for this mess, they opened Pandora’s box with zero guardrails in place, and until enough people complain (and congress passes some laws and/or the players unionize) or enough stop watching it the money continue to escalate. The factories have always done this, now it’s open to all and they hate it. There will never not be people willing to spend money to try and help their college team win, it’s a religion here in the south. I could give zero F’s about any other sports teams than GT’s big three and will do what i can to help money-wise if that’s what it takes to be competitive.