Marcus Marshall

[Longestday]

You have consistently versus variable. I love to have both.

 

[takethepoints]

Last year Marshall failed to gain at least 3 yards about 30% of the time (26 carries).
This year, Mills has failed to gain at least 3 yards about 37% of the time (41 carries not including carries at the one or two yard line)
And in case you're wondering Marshall is sitting at about 33% this year. (29 carries)

So tell me again how Mills is bringing the consistent 3 yards that we didn't have last year?

I think this is an inappropriate analysis. I don't doubt that the overall stats are accurate. However …

• MM has had fewer carries this year and when he got most of his we had sorted out some (not all, but some) of the OL problems we had earlier.

• Mills is a true freshman playing a brand new position. It showed in the early games. Now recall UNC. He ran - remember - reliably up the middle and ended up with, if I recall right, 132 yards rushing.

• Mills is a grinder, MM is only getting there. He is getting there, mind, and, if he can get us a reliable 3 - 5 yards on the dive going forward, he'll do well. I think his usual game, however, has been like UVA. He got 127 yards rushing, 87 of them on two plays. For the remaining 14 carries, he averaged 2.8 ypc. Now, that ain't bad and I don't say it is. The difficulty is that it doesn't keep the O on the field. We lost ToP by 18 minutes to the Snobs. Against UNC, Mills's last start, we won it by 5 minutes, despite a massive D fail. That's because, even subtracting his 39 yard run, he averaged 4.8 ypc. And that's what folks here mean when they say that the O runs more efficiently with Mills.

• As I said before, I think part of this is our QBs. MM looked like the BB everyone - including me - dreamed he could be in the VT game. I think that was largely because MJ was at QB (sort of sings, doesn't it?). Having an inherent confusion about who's going to hit up up the middle next time gives MM opportunities that JT doesn't generate. This could lead to big things next year.

All that aside, I do think he has earned a start in Athens and I hope he does well with it. We need above all else to keep Eason and co. off the field. If MM plays like he did against VT, we'll do that. If he doesn't, we'll see a steady dose of Mills soon.

 

[lv20gt]

lol half of those stops came from the Clemson game on Dedrick, not really his fault. Also Marshall has regressed this year in the 3 yard range? Shouldn't that tell you maybe teams are trying to stop it more? Not saying it's the case but it sure seemed like it early on. Also take away marshals big plays and let me know what he's averaging? I know the big plays are awesome, but I'm interested in seeing what the difference would be. And I mean big plays when he goes untouched that Dedrick would probably do the same thing on, not ones he created himself. The point in my post is to show numbers dont mean everything, I could even use the excuse Dedrick plus early in the game when the other teams D is fresh and Marshall plays late when the D is worn out, and if you flipped them and their playing time then the numbers could be flipped. Don't get me wrong I really like Marshall and think he's very good but it's pretty clear Dedrick is the more powerful back, which has been stated by our coaching staff.

First, no, half of them didn't come against clemson. In fact only 5 came against Clemson. So that's 1/8th. Considering he got almost exactly 1/7th of his total carries on that one game out of 7, the fact that he got 1/8th of the plays less than 3 yards means that game doesn't, in fact, skew the numbers.

Second, i put up the stats for this year on Marshall to show that even this year he's more consistent than Mills at picking up 3 yards. Regardless, people act like Mills is some super consistent 3 yard machine and that somehow cancels out Marshall's big play ability. But he isn't, and it doesn't.

Third, why would I take away the big plays? You say those are the plays Mills would do the same on yet Mills, in 114 carries has just 2 plays over 20 yards, one being 21 by the way, and on the 39 yard one the only reason it wasn't less than 10 is because he fell on a teammate. Mills hasn't shown anywhere near the big play ability that Marshall has. Maybe wait until Mills does it once to claim that he would do it on those plays. You try to say that he goes untouched so then Mills would as well which can't be supported. Mills isn't anywhere near as fast as Marshall, and it's the speed and acceleration that cause Marshall to go untouched.

Fourth, you could make the early game excuse for Mills. It would be bunk like the rest, because Marshall, in the last two game, had 9 carries less than 3 yards on 35 total carries. Marshall's percentage actually goes down to 26%. Including the duke and Mercer games, his numbers are 16 out of 58 carries for 28%. Funny, with Marshall his rate of less than 3 yards goes down when he gets the early carries as well. But there I go with those numbers again.

• MM has had fewer carries this year and when he got most of his we had sorted out some (not all, but some) of the OL problems we had earlier.

And his numbers were better last year when we had even more OL problems.

• Mills is a true freshman playing a brand new position. It showed in the early games. Now recall UNC. He ran - remember - reliably up the middle and ended up with, if I recall right, 132 yards rushing.

Against UNC Mills had 5 carries of less than 3 yards out of 19 for 26%. So that still just puts him even with what Marshall was doing the past two games when he was starting. So that still doesn't support the notion that Mills is the more consistent runner. Also Marshall was a true freshman playing a new position last year as well. He had better numbers then as well.

Against UNC, Mills's last start, we won it by 5 minutes, despite a massive D fail. That's because, even subtracting his 39 yard run, he averaged 4.8 ypc. And that's what folks here mean when they say that the O runs more efficiently with Mills.

Oh, well we won the ToP. I'm glad that makes you happy. See to me, I wouldn't call 5 and 6 minutes drives resulting in 0 or 3 points as efficient. Of course the ironic thing is the only TDs we scored in that game came on a one play 80 yard pass and on a drive where Mills had his longest run of the season. But hey, our 4 longest drives totaled 21 minutes of ToP. I guess that's great. So should we go for the win in points or the win in ToP? I'll have to sleep on that one.

 

[bke1984]

Marshall for his career is averaging 2 more yards per carry than Mills and has had no off the field incidents as far as I can tell. If Mills goes right back to being the starter then it isn't a competition. Competition implies both guys can possible win.

Last year Marshall failed to gain at least 3 yards about 30% of the time (26 carries).
This year, Mills has failed to gain at least 3 yards about 37% of the time (41 carries not including carries at the one or two yard line)
And in case you're wondering Marshall is sitting at about 33% this year. (29 carries)

So tell me again how Mills is bringing the consistent 3 yards that we didn't have last year?

1. Of course he averages more per carry, he's got a handful of extremely long runs that Dedrick doesn't have.
2. CPJ has said Marshall will probably start
3. You can twist the stats any way you want man, but my eyes don't lie. Up until the VT game Dedrick was more consistent at getting continuous chunks of yards. Hell, just watching him at the goal line shows you how much harder he's fought for yards. Marshall only started doing that two weeks ago.

I don't want an either or...I want them both. I just think Dedrick made Marcus a better player.

 

[bke1984]

...not to mention MM had struggled with ball security and blocking...which are the real reasons he wasn't starting over DM

 

[bke1984]

The comparisons aren't exactly apples to apples either...neither one really got any playing time in the game where the other amassed the stats.

Look, I'm a huge MM fan. If Dedrick doesn't get his off field issues straightened out, we'd be fine with him. Likewise, if MM decides he doesn't want to compete and transfer, we'll be fine with DM.

I'd prefer to have them both and wear teams down in the second half.

 

[BuzzStone]

but my eyes don't lie.
.

Eyewitness is worthless in the eyes of science. Eyes lie all the time. Facts are a much better thing to go by. I would be looking at ball security as my main point when comparing the two.

 

[YJMD]

They both have looked good and at times made mistakes. AND our offense is not a consistent grinder like it was in 14. It's hard to determine how much that is on the backs.

Without the suspensions, Dedrick did enough to hold the spot by himself, and Marcus failed to do enough to take it from him. That doesn't necessarily mean it was the right call.

Now that he's had a chance, Marcus has earned the start. Hell, Dedrick might not play another snap if MM keeps it going.

I think a lot of the justification for one choice or another is displacing the lingering dissatisfaction that we have that the B back spot isn't able either to produce the consistent grind ala Days and Laskey or the star power of Dwyer.

 

[franklinjacket]

Give MM the start against UGA, but split first half carries. Go with the hot hand in the second half.

 

[alentrekin]

That's what PJ said he'll do. "Marcus is going to start but both of them will play." [paraphrase from press conf]

IMO, it's more fun to speculate about ways to use them both, but I guess they have to back each other up, so it would have to be limited to goal line or another set piece.

 

[tech_wreck47]

1. Of course he averages more per carry, he's got a handful of extremely long runs that Dedrick doesn't have.
2. CPJ has said Marshall will probably start
3. You can twist the stats any way you want man, but my eyes don't lie. Up until the VT game Dedrick was more consistent at getting continuous chunks of yards. Hell, just watching him at the goal line shows you how much harder he's fought for yards. Marshall only started doing that two weeks ago.

I don't want an either or...I want them both. I just think Dedrick made Marcus a better player.

First I thought it was obvious I wasn't being literal when I said half about the Clemson game, but 5 in one game changes the percentages majorly.

Second if Marshall goes untouched and has a big play what makes you think Dedrick wouldn't? Can you find the stats for yards after contact? That would be interesting.

Third you used marshals average for his career why not go by just this year alone seeing that Dedrick didn't play last year. Wouldn't that be better to compare so you are comparing with the same supporting cast around them? And only use the games where they both played considering one might play a good D and the other a crap D.

Third the point of saying if you take a way the big play is to show when you have to get those short yards Dedrick is better because those big plays aren't always going to happen and if you need 3 yards who will you put in? I understand those big plays are part of football, but like I said it's all about getting those short yards when everything is boxed in and that's why I asked about yards after contact.

Fifth you use the excuse with Marshall when he starts has his percentages go down and u you use that against all crap D's so is it not possible the same thing would happen with Dedrick? Like I said we must compare apples to apples.

I like both players and think the both bring something different Marshall is shifty and has speed and Dedrick has really good power. Coaches have said themselves that Dedrick is more powerful which would mean he gets those tough yards when needed and that's my point. I would not like seeing either leave the team.

We can go round and round with numbers all we want because numbers can be twisted in many ways so I'll leave it at this. I want both and think they are both very good players.

 

[tech_wreck47]

1. Of course he averages more per carry, he's got a handful of extremely long runs that Dedrick doesn't have.
2. CPJ has said Marshall will probably start
3. You can twist the stats any way you want man, but my eyes don't lie. Up until the VT game Dedrick was more consistent at getting continuous chunks of yards. Hell, just watching him at the goal line shows you how much harder he's fought for yards. Marshall only started doing that two weeks ago.

I don't want an either or...I want them both. I just think Dedrick made Marcus a better player.

This, plus the COACHES who see them both in practice have said Dedrick is more powerful, I think I'll take the coaches word on this one.

 

[Milwaukee]

First I thought it was obvious I wasn't being literal when I said half about the Clemson game, but 5 in one game changes the percentages majorly.

Second if Marshall goes untouched and has a big play what makes you think Dedrick wouldn't? Can you find the stats for yards after contact? That would be interesting.

Third you used marshals average for his career why not go by just this year alone seeing that Dedrick didn't play last year. Wouldn't that be better to compare so you are comparing with the same supporting cast around them? And only use the games where they both played considering one might play a good D and the other a crap D.

Third the point of saying if you take a way the big play is to show when you have to get those short yards Dedrick is better because those big plays aren't always going to happen and if you need 3 yards who will you put in? I understand those big plays are part of football, but like I said it's all about getting those short yards when everything is boxed in and that's why I asked about yards after contact.

Fifth you use the excuse with Marshall when he starts has his percentages go down and u you use that against all crap D's so is it not possible the same thing would happen with Dedrick? Like I said we must compare apples to apples.

I like both players and think the both bring something different Marshall is shifty and has speed and Dedrick has really good power. Coaches have said themselves that Dedrick is more powerful which would mean he gets those tough yards when needed and that's my point. I would not like seeing either leave the team.

We can go round and round with numbers all we want because numbers can be twisted in many ways so I'll leave it at this. I want both and think they are both very good players.

 

[bke1984]

Eyewitness is worthless in the eyes of science. Eyes lie all the time. Facts are a much better thing to go by. I would be looking at ball security as my main point when comparing the two.

FACT - My eyewitness accounts are always accurate

 

[takethepoints]

And his numbers were better last year when we had even more OL problems.

Against UNC Mills had 5 carries of less than 3 yards out of 19 for 26%. So that still just puts him even with what Marshall was doing the past two games when he was starting. So that still doesn't support the notion that Mills is the more consistent runner. Also Marshall was a true freshman playing a new position last year as well. He had better numbers then as well.

Oh, well we won the ToP. I'm glad that makes you happy. See to me, I wouldn't call 5 and 6 minutes drives resulting in 0 or 3 points as efficient. Of course the ironic thing is the only TDs we scored in that game came on a one play 80 yard pass and on a drive where Mills had his longest run of the season. But hey, our 4 longest drives totaled 21 minutes of ToP. I guess that's great. So should we go for the win in points or the win in ToP? I'll have to sleep on that one.

Let's take this point by point, shall we?

• This thread is about this year. Let's keep our eye on the main point here.

• Look at the comparative ypc. Mills has gotten consistently better as the year has progressed (you can check). It isn't big play ability that counts for BBs in our O; it's the ability to grind out 6 - 9 minute drives. The point I was making wasn't about Mills begin a more efficient runner; it was about the offense being more efficient when he starts. That's because he helps us with long drives more then MM does.

• Winning ToP is the most essential part of our offense. The whole point of the O is to do two things: limit the opponents opportunity to score and wear down their D as the game progresses. The ability to get ahead and hold the football is pretty much the entire goal of our offensive strategy. This is why, despite all the big plays, Coach has been so frustrated by our offensive performance this year. And, given our D problems, the less time the opposition is on the field, the better. If you won't understand this, at least Coach does.

None of this should be seen as disparaging MM. He's pretty good. He isn't as conducive to what we are trying to do on offense as Mills, however. Yet. We'll see going forward.

 

[lv20gt]

First I thought it was obvious I wasn't being literal when I said half about the Clemson game, but 5 in one game changes the percentages majorly.

Except it doesn't change his percentages at all. No literally, take away the Clemson game and it stays at 37%. Well if we're being exact the percentage actually goes up vy a fraction of a percent.

Second if Marshall goes untouched and has a big play what makes you think Dedrick wouldn't? Can you find the stats for yards after contact? That would be interesting.

He doesn't have the speed, acceleration, or vision that Marshall does. You act like Marshall has nothing to do with those plays going untouched. It's almost like that .3 difference in their 40 time translates to the field.

Third you used marshals average for his career why not go by just this year alone seeing that Dedrick didn't play last year. Wouldn't that be better to compare so you are comparing with the same supporting cast around them? And only use the games where they both played considering one might play a good D and the other a crap D.

Okay use this year, Marshall averages 1.5 more yards per carry. Also, let's look at the 6 games that both played in. Marshall had 179 yards on 29 carries for 6.2 ypc. Mills had 446 on 95 carries for 4.69 ypc. So Marshall was 1.3 ypc better against the same opponents.

Third the point of saying if you take a way the big play is to show when you have to get those short yards Dedrick is better because those big plays aren't always going to happen and if you need 3 yards who will you put in?

But Mills isn't better reliably getting those short yards. He in fact gets less than 3 yards more often than Marshall does. Mills is a better power back, but it hasn't translated to a bonus that offsets the advantage Marshall brings with his big play ability.

Fifth you use the excuse with Marshall when he starts has his percentages go down and u you use that against all crap D's so is it not possible the same thing would happen with Dedrick? Like I said we must compare apples to apples.

What? You were the person who brought up the notion that Mills playing against fresh defenses is cause of his percentages. I just showed that Marshall against fresh defenses still has better numbers.

The whole point of the O is to do two things: limit the opponents opportunity to score and wear down their D as the game progresses.

The primary purpose of the offense is to score points. You'd have a point if we always converted our drives into points. But we don't. Against UNC we had 4 drives, our longest 4, result in 21 minutes of ToP and 6 points. Won the ToP. Lost the game by 28. But hey, at least it helped our defense, I guess. Also, ironic that the two TDs we scored that game came on a 1 play 83 yard drive, and a drive centered around Mills' longest run of the year.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Except it doesn't change his percentages at all. No literally, take away the Clemson game and it stays at 37%. Well if we're being exact the percentage actually goes up vy a fraction of a percent.



He doesn't have the speed, acceleration, or vision that Marshall does. You act like Marshall has nothing to do with those plays going untouched. It's almost like that .3 difference in their 40 time translates to the field.



Okay use this year, Marshall averages 1.5 more yards per carry. Also, let's look at the 6 games that both played in. Marshall had 179 yards on 29 carries for 6.2 ypc. Mills had 446 on 95 carries for 4.69 ypc. So Marshall was 1.3 ypc better against the same opponents.



But Mills isn't better reliably getting those short yards. He in fact gets less than 3 yards more often than Marshall does. Mills is a better power back, but it hasn't translated to a bonus that offsets the advantage Marshall brings with his big play ability.



What? You were the person who brought up the notion that Mills playing against fresh defenses is cause of his percentages. I just showed that Marshall against fresh defenses still has better numbers.



The primary purpose of the offense is to score points. You'd have a point if we always converted our drives into points. But we don't. Against UNC we had 4 drives, our longest 4, result in 21 minutes of ToP and 6 points. Won the ToP. Lost the game by 28. But hey, at least it helped our defense, I guess. Also, ironic that the two TDs we scored that game came on a 1 play 83 yard drive, and a drive centered around Mills' longest run of the year.

I mean take away the ones that were below 3 yards not the whole game, but we obviously dissagree, not big deal. I'm just going to keep believing the staff on this one. And yes I brought up Dedrick against fresh D's but your going to tell me there's not a difference in a D like Boston college or vandy conpared to mercer? I'll take a worn out D from vandy or Boston college over mercer any game, would you not? Are you really going to compare them by that? You must have missed the point where I clearly said the teams you mentioned were awful D's.

 

[takethepoints]

The primary purpose of the offense is to score points. You'd have a point if we always converted our drives into points. But we don't. Against UNC we had 4 drives, our longest 4, result in 21 minutes of ToP and 6 points. Won the ToP. Lost the game by 28. But hey, at least it helped our defense, I guess. Also, ironic that the two TDs we scored that game came on a 1 play 83 yard drive, and a drive centered around Mills' longest run of the year.

Ok, one more time.

We want to score more points, sure, but it's how we score points that Coach is always pointing to. Remember when Vad was our QB? Somebody asked Coach after one of our wins what he thought of how the O was working. He said (paraphrase), "I'm glad we won, but that's not how we play football." What he meant was that our offensive style is based on a particular way of winning, just like every other offense. Some are built on scoring quickly; see any Rick Leach team you want to name. Some are built on playing lights out D; see Bammer or LSU. We are based on holding the ball and cutting down on opportunities for the other side to get their offense on the field. All we want is to end up one point ahead of the other side. (Hence all the complaining about how we aren't "dominating" our opponents.) Iow, Coach's O is, basically, a defensive strategy; if we don't win ToP then the rest of the equation fails, more or less. The reason he's been so critical this year and that we don't always convert our drives into points is that we aren't doing a real good job of running the O. But we do a better job of it with Mills at BB.

So far. We'll see how MM does against the Dwags. Maybe he'll surprise me again.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Dude doesn't want to give up his spot next week. Not sure which was more impressive, his long TD run or his refusal to go down run of 2o yards. It sure is nice to have both Marshall and Mills to trot out there! We should be able to keep fresh legs in there against the mutts which could make all the difference in the 4th qtr.

Just wanted to quote the OP to remind everyone that the intent was to praise MM and be thankful that we would have both he and DM vs. Ugag.

 

[thebull35]

I swear Tech fans make the biggest issues about everything. And then to top it all off everybody has to go and pull all these stats and metrics out of their *** to show that they are smarter than the next person. Why don't you guys just enjoy the remainder of the season and cheer on whoever is on the field that day. Geez