Jay Jones Transferring

Techster

Helluva Engineer
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18,394
correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't you agree that passing is secondary in our system? So even if JJ was the best passer but couldn't get the reads down for running the ball (which is what we primarily do) wouldn't he not be the QB based on that one simple thing? Thy could very easily exsplain him being the 3rd or 4th QB and passing having nothing to do with it. And do you really think that if a kid doesn't have teams lining up at his door that he isn't a good QB? Have you heard the name Baker mayfield? Or Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott, or what about 2 star Nick Fitzgerald and Russell Wilson? What you are saying is just an assumption and btw I'm not saying he's this great passer, I was just giving information/facts that contradict what you were saying. Can I ask you what makes you say he's not a good passer? Him not having offers means nothing, and depth chart also means nothing when we are more concerned with running the ball and getting the reads down.

LOL....and all of those guys were good passers in HS...well, not Nick Fitzgerald, who ironically ran the triple option for a school just outside Savannah in Richmond Hill. You do realize Dak Prescott was a top 20 QB, right? Russell Wilson was a top 25 QB with QB offers from P5 programs. It's true, just because you weren't ranked or not highly recruited doesn't make you a bad QB, just ability. That's my point, JJ doesn't have the ability to be QB in any other system but ours. It's funny how you're trying to argue with me about how the sample size is too small for me to make a judgement on JJ's passing ability, yet by the same token you're trying to tell us he is a good passer with that same sample size. Sorry, JJ is just not a good passer. JJ is dropping to a JC level so he'll be able to prove me wrong right away next fall.

I stand by my statement: JJ will not play QB again in a real game in college. He's going to be a heck of football player for someone, IMO, but it won't be at QB.
 

tech_wreck47

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8,670
LOL....and all of those guys were good passers in HS...well, not Nick Fitzgerald, who ironically ran the triple option for a school just outside Savannah in Richmond Hill. You do realize Dak Prescott was a top 20 QB, right? Russell Wilson was a top 25 QB with QB offers from P5 programs. It's true, just because you weren't ranked or not highly recruited doesn't make you a bad QB, just ability. That's my point, JJ doesn't have the ability to be QB in any other system but ours. It's funny how you're trying to argue with me about how the sample size is too small for me to make a judgement on JJ's passing ability, yet by the same token you're trying to tell us he is a good passer with that same sample size. Sorry, JJ is just not a good passer. JJ is dropping to a JC level so he'll be able to prove me wrong right away next fall.

I stand by my statement: JJ will not play QB again in a real game in college. He's going to be a heck of football player for someone, IMO, but it won't be at QB.
Russell Wilson top 25 QB as a 2 star? And Dak top 20 as a 3 star? They obviously weren't that great of passers coming out of high school by your standard or they would have been getting all these power 5 offers (which they weren't getting) also are you saying JJ wasn't a good passer in highschool? Also how do you know what some of the power 5 offers JJ had weren't recruiting him as QB? Also I never said he was a great QB from the small sample size, I even just said in the last post I wasn't saying he's this "great" passer but was giving you examples of information/facts that contradicted your assessment. I'll ask again what makes you say he's not a good passer? Here's his highlights from his senior year. When you watch him throw, what makes you say he can't be a good passer? He was throwing dimes out there, of course he has things to work on, but I'd like to know what you see, and why you say he DOESNT have the ability in a different system.

 
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steebu

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
625
What pi----- me off CPJ said he didn't play JJ because he was prone to make a mistake or commit a turnover well the one that played made plenty of mistakes and he kept playing him. CPJ played Vad when he should have played Justin this was from an assistant coach not me .he is to stubborn to change and maybe admit he made a mistake. I don't understand why some of you cannot see this he needs to go!

It is not helpful to throw out stuff like this when you don't know the full story, or, if you do know the full story you are omitting some very important context and facts to the situation to make your point.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,394
Russell Wilson top 25 QB as a 2 star? And Dak top 20 as a 3 star? They obviously weren't that great of passers coming out of high school by your standard or they would have been getting all these power 5 offers (which they weren't getting) also are you saying JJ wasn't a good passer in highschool? Also how do you know what some of the power 5 offers JJ had weren't recruiting him as QB? Also I never said he was a great QB from the small sample size, I even just said in the last post I wasn't saying he's this "great" passer but was giving you examples of information/facts that contradicted your assessment. I'll ask again what makes you say he's not a good passer? Here's his highlights from his senior year. When you watch him throw, what makes you say he can't be a good passer? He was throwing dimes out there, of course he has things to work on, but I'd like to know what you see.



Lord. Do some research before you type, bro.

https://247sports.com/Player/Dak-Prescott-8327/high-school-10422

https://247sports.com/Player/Russell-Wilson-13737/high-school-3974

BTW...when I watch a QB throw, I'm not looking for pretty looking spirals, or how far a guy throws the ball, or how many defenders he can juke out of their shoes before he launches the ball down field. That's just a player out athleting everyone on the HS level. 90% of JJ's passes in those highlights are considered "backyard football" type plays. They are not passes within the play structure. Good for him for finding a wide open guy streaking down the field after running around the LOS. That doesn't make you a good passer. Good at throwing the ball? Yes. That's different. Those type of plays do not translate to this level because if a QB does that on this level he's going to get his head taken off.

Now, take a look at Trevor Lawrence who's committed to Clemson. IMO, he's the best QB in the nation, and probably one of the best HS QBs of the last decade. He's also a QB from GA, but that's a subject for a whole 'nother thread:



Lawrence's film is night and day from JJ's. Trevor knows exactly where he's going before he finishes his drop steps. His accuracy in tight windows, and the anticipation he throws with into those small windows is unreal. He's finding guys before they make breaks. He's so accurate, that multiple times the ball is caught where the defender gives the receiver the smallest of windows. Look how Trever steps up into the pocket when he feels pressure, instead of breaking from the pocket and running around because he's feeling a rush. Notice how many times he looks off the safety, pumps the ball, and throws to the other side because he knows the exact spot a WR should be...and the ball gets delivered exactly where the WR is? THAT is throwing the ball on a dime. There are some throws that if you understand what's going on will make your jaw drop....I'm not sure there are NFL QBs that could make some of those throws. Does Trevor make some "backyard football" type throws? Sure does and all QBs will have those plays. But the vast majority of his passes are completed within the structure of the play. His ability to process the defense and get the ball where it needs to go is going to be NASTY in Clemson's offense.

Now let's take a look at a lower rated QB. Tyler Desue, ranked #20 dual threat QB this year (committed to Maryland):



Again, you're watching a QB who's completing passes within the structure of the play, he doesn't have to scramble around and bomb it to a teammate that's faster than everyone else on the field like a lot of JJ's passes end up being. Tyler doesn't have the quick release or the uncanny ability to look off safeties one way and snap back to the otherside of the field and deliver a dime on a rope in a small window like Trevor does, but he's making some big time throws. The first deep out to the far hash Tyler completes is a big boy throw. He's not as nuanced in his ability to process as Trevor, but Tyler shows far better command of passing than JJ does.

Last, but not least, let's compare JJ's film to Lucas Johnson's film:



You notice those deep back shoulder throws where only his WR can catch it? Those were nasty. How about passes in zone coverage between 2 defenders? That's a display of anticipation and accuracy. Quite a few of those throws. IMO, you can tell more about a QB's ability to process and deliver in his throws between the LB and safety than deep shots. Go routes and deep post, IMO, are about the WR being faster than the DB, and the QB just throwing it down field. It doesn't tell me much about a passer's skillset. Maybe I'm just biased, but when I watch the tape of Lucas vs JJ, it's not even close. Lucas is such a good passer, and he's so much more nuanced in his understanding of being a passer. Passer...not thrower of the football. In fact, I'm not sure how GT fans can contain their excitement after watching that film again. You can see why CPJ talks so highly about Lucas's passing ability, and why CPJ referred to Lucas as a true dual threat QB.
 

motynes

Jolly Good Fellow
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240
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Ocean Springs, Mississippi
Well I think it’s obvious JJ didn’t want to be at GT for whatever reason. It also seems clear that by all accounts LJ was ahead of him on the depth chart. I got one just want a QB that can make the reads in our offense. Something that by the end of there year this year we couldn’t not get right. I don’t care who the QB is as long as they can read the TO and other option plays. It would be nice if they could throw the ball accurately as well.
 

Lavoisier

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
847
Jay could absolutely be a QB if he's in the right system. He could have here with some polishing. Not every system requires the same stuff and any throwing issues he has are made up by his legs. We just have to have a QB that can throw, run, and operate the option elements of our offense. A guy can be successful here if he can do 2/3 (we really need someone who can be at a bare minimum serviceable in all 3 like JT), but if Jay wasn't grasping the option part then he wasn't going to play regardless of how good his legs are. I would have liked the competition because I think it's good for the team, but if he wasn't happy and thought he was buried on the chart then I can't blame him. He doesn't seem bitter or angry so why should we be?
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,783
Fair enough. Who are you upset with? LJ for winning the competition? PJ for deciding the winner of a competition?
With our limited budget we don't often get gifted athletes.

WITH A parent of a player mentioning "that gt is hard" I would guess academics is involved. We all know how hard it is to catch up when you fall behind.

With ZERO p t by lj or jj and the very poor throwing accuracy of the starter, it is justifiable for him to be discouraged.



Good luck jj
 

bke1984

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,609
Newsflash...every D1 college QB was good in high school...that's why they're playing D1 football.

Also, from my understanding, Jay's strong suit is that he's a freak athlete that can just make people miss and hit huge plays...another newsflash...we had a guy like that playing QB for us this year.

If the only reason everyone is mad is about speculation that he's just a much better passer from high school highlight film (which by definition is skewed), one Spring game, and like two in-game series where he did not even attempt a single pass then I just don't get it.

I know one thing for sure...we will have a starting QB next year :)

Time to move on guys.

Good luck, Jay!
 

dressedcheeseside

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Messages
14,243
Jay could absolutely be a QB if he's in the right system. He could have here with some polishing. Not every system requires the same stuff and any throwing issues he has are made up by his legs. We just have to have a QB that can throw, run, and operate the option elements of our offense. A guy can be successful here if he can do 2/3 (we really need someone who can be at a bare minimum serviceable in all 3 like JT), but if Jay wasn't grasping the option part then he wasn't going to play regardless of how good his legs are. I would have liked the competition because I think it's good for the team, but if he wasn't happy and thought he was buried on the chart then I can't blame him. He doesn't seem bitter or angry so why should we be?
Nail meet hammer.
 

GTJoeBrew

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,099
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Loganville, GA
Here we go again. Bowl season hasn't even started and we are losing folks. Getting ready for a crazy off-season again... Time to board up the windows and isolate myself.

upload_2017-12-7_9-51-34.png
 

GTJoeBrew

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Off season attrition happens everywhere. We just can't afford it like most teams.
I agree with some of the other posters that this hurts, but not as bad as losing a current starter would be. I am just waiting for another bomb to drop, because it happens every off season. I don't want to list any of them because it still hurts to see their name.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Messages
14,243
I agree with some of the other posters that this hurts, but not as bad as losing a current starter would be. I am just waiting for another bomb to drop, because it happens every off season. I don't want to list any of them because it still hurts to see their name.
I was thinking maybe an irreplaceable defender would get dismissed for pot then couldn't think of one.
 

tech_wreck47

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8,670
Lord. Do some research before you type, bro.

https://247sports.com/Player/Dak-Prescott-8327/high-school-10422

https://247sports.com/Player/Russell-Wilson-13737/high-school-3974

BTW...when I watch a QB throw, I'm not looking for pretty looking spirals, or how far a guy throws the ball, or how many defenders he can juke out of their shoes before he launches the ball down field. That's just a player out athleting everyone on the HS level. 90% of JJ's passes in those highlights are considered "backyard football" type plays. They are not passes within the play structure. Good for him for finding a wide open guy streaking down the field after running around the LOS. That doesn't make you a good passer. Good at throwing the ball? Yes. That's different. Those type of plays do not translate to this level because if a QB does that on this level he's going to get his head taken off.

Now, take a look at Trevor Lawrence who's committed to Clemson. IMO, he's the best QB in the nation, and probably one of the best HS QBs of the last decade. He's also a QB from GA, but that's a subject for a whole 'nother thread:



Lawrence's film is night and day from JJ's. Trevor knows exactly where he's going before he finishes his drop steps. His accuracy in tight windows, and the anticipation he throws with into those small windows is unreal. He's finding guys before they make breaks. He's so accurate, that multiple times the ball is caught where the defender gives the receiver the smallest of windows. Look how Trever steps up into the pocket when he feels pressure, instead of breaking from the pocket and running around because he's feeling a rush. Notice how many times he looks off the safety, pumps the ball, and throws to the other side because he knows the exact spot a WR should be...and the ball gets delivered exactly where the WR is? THAT is throwing the ball on a dime. There are some throws that if you understand what's going on will make your jaw drop....I'm not sure there are NFL QBs that could make some of those throws. Does Trevor make some "backyard football" type throws? Sure does and all QBs will have those plays. But the vast majority of his passes are completed within the structure of the play. His ability to process the defense and get the ball where it needs to go is going to be NASTY in Clemson's offense.

Now let's take a look at a lower rated QB. Tyler Desue, ranked #20 dual threat QB this year (committed to Maryland):



Again, you're watching a QB who's completing passes within the structure of the play, he doesn't have to scramble around and bomb it to a teammate that's faster than everyone else on the field like a lot of JJ's passes end up being. Tyler doesn't have the quick release or the uncanny ability to look off safeties one way and snap back to the otherside of the field and deliver a dime on a rope in a small window like Trevor does, but he's making some big time throws. The first deep out to the far hash Tyler completes is a big boy throw. He's not as nuanced in his ability to process as Trevor, but Tyler shows far better command of passing than JJ does.

Last, but not least, let's compare JJ's film to Lucas Johnson's film:



You notice those deep back shoulder throws where only his WR can catch it? Those were nasty. How about passes in zone coverage between 2 defenders? That's a display of anticipation and accuracy. Quite a few of those throws. IMO, you can tell more about a QB's ability to process and deliver in his throws between the LB and safety than deep shots. Go routes and deep post, IMO, are about the WR being faster than the DB, and the QB just throwing it down field. It doesn't tell me much about a passer's skillset. Maybe I'm just biased, but when I watch the tape of Lucas vs JJ, it's not even close. Lucas is such a good passer, and he's so much more nuanced in his understanding of being a passer. Passer...not thrower of the football. In fact, I'm not sure how GT fans can contain their excitement after watching that film again. You can see why CPJ talks so highly about Lucas's passing ability, and why CPJ referred to Lucas as a true dual threat QB.

Maybe you should ask what services I checked for my research before assuming I did none lol.....

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2011/dak-prescott-10696
(Look at all those power 5 offers)


https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2007/russell-c-wilson-10697

(And how about all those power 5)

I'll ask this again, how do you know that other power 5 schools weren't offering JJ as a QB?

I'll agree 100 percent he was out athleting guys on the field, and I agree the deep pass isn't the hardest throw, outside routes are what a lot of QB's struggle with. I'll also agree that throwing in tight windows is impressive, and going through the progressions. However, because you didn't see that in his highlight film that means he can't be a good passer? Half of the time guys where running free through the LOS at him and he had no choice but to run around and throw the ball down field.

My point of showing his high school film wasn't to show he's a good passer, because none of us really know. It was to show he has the potential to be a good passer. The reasons you gave of not throwing intermediate routes, and fitting balls in tight windows ect isn't a reason of why he can't be a good passer, those things can be worked on. I was expecting some critique on his mechanics that are just so awful it's something that would keep him from being a good passer. If you notice he drops his elbow on a lot of his throws, he also throws off his back foot, but that's all things that can be worked on. He also does a lot of good things like not opening up his shoulders to soon, and keeps his eyes down field, feels the pressure coming, and follows through on his passes. So yes he has things to work on, but he also is good at somethings.

Does he need to work on progressions, throwing the ball in tight windows, throwing intermediate routes? Sure, but just because you didnt see that, doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to do so.

What makes you say he can't be a good passer? All the things you named off automatically make him to not have the ability to be a good passer? I just see how you have seen enough of him to make a judgment like that.

And I'll agree with you on Lucas, he shows more in his film with the ability to pass, but that still doesn't mean JJ can't pass. I'm actually excited about LJ and was from the very beginning. But just so you know you are kinda contradicting yourself by saying if JJ was this good passer then why didn't he have all these power 5 schools offering him to play QB, but turning around and talking about LJ's ability to pass when he didn't have many power 5 schools offering him to play QB, by what your saying with JJ not having all these power 5 offers for QB can't we say the same about LJ?

I do understand we all have opinions though, ours just happen to be different on this subject.
 

buzzed

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
339
Damn. Another elite athlete gone. Too bad we couldn’t even get him on the field this year to help us win some games. Roster management has been a major issue lately. I wonder if he could go play for Florida or Auburn and help someone who will get his skills on the field beat the dogs?
 

Lavoisier

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
847
I was thinking maybe an irreplaceable defender would get dismissed for pot then couldn't think of one.

If we lost Anree we would be toast. We would have Meriwether and a yet to be determined player at DE, and two freshmen backing them up. DE looks incredibly weak next year as it is with only one known quantity.
 

jgtengineer

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,068
If we lost Anree we would be toast. We would have Meriwether and a yet to be determined player at DE, and two freshmen backing them up. DE looks incredibly weak next year as it is with only one known quantity.
If we lost Anree, Branch would definitley move out to End. and honestly I think we should role Vic up to rush end or go to a 3-4 front.

3-4 alignment ( primarily in over

DE Branch
DT Adams
DE Oliver or ST amour OR Glanton

OLB Rush -Alexander
OLB Cover- Cooksey/Curry if healthy /sub for nickle Jalen Johnson or Cambell
MLB Brant
MLB Swilling

CB1 Ajani Kerr
CB2 Open for competition but i'd liek to see Carpenter prove he can win this job
SS - Gray
FS- Simmons, I like rangely free safeties that can close on the ball Simmons is a protype body type for an nfl free safety now

Base alignment is 3-4 Over with rush lb on th eline like a 4-3
Base scheme is an attacking 3-4 with one gap dl responsibility and at least one LB blitz ( either the rush or someone from the middle) with zone behind it.
Nickle package is a 3-3-5.
 
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