ESPN: Georgia Tech restoring football program to former glory

[Longestday]

I think CPJ exited at the right time. Perhaps some truth stretching and Todd’s excellent/fund raising work will be enough to overcome API and GT combo.

The program needs to match uga or Clemson funding if it wants to compete at the same level.

But the record is what it is... and the record over the next two years will be what it will be....

 

[bke1984]

I get the branding aspect of it. Gotta hype what we were way back and the return to glory, etc. that said, I don’t think you need to flat out lie. He could have said that Tech was once a perennial top ten program without making it sound like it was in the 80s when he was growing up.

That said, people shouldn’t take it as a slight to CPJ. Everyone knows what CPJ did for us...but I know what he didn’t do, and that’s market the program well. He actually was far too honest in that he exposed our warts at times by talking about how everyone has selective memories about how good Tech was. He put his accomplishments above the program when he’d say stuff like that and just sound bitter, which ultimately hurt the program he was trying to build.

 

[smokey_wasp]

I think CPJ exited at the right time. Perhaps some truth stretching and Todd’s excellent/fund raising work will be enough to overcome API and GT combo.

The program needs to match uga or Clemson funding if it wants to compete at the same level.

But the record is what it is... and the record over the next two years will be what it will be....

I don't think anyone is expecting or hoping CGC will have a Gailey-like run. I think we would all be disappointed with that.

That said, good to see you posting.

 

[takethepoints]

Collins has to change the message and he is doing everything he can. Whether you want to admit it or not, recruits did. It view the triple option as relevant. Always be recruiting. Recruits aren’t going to immediately hop online and fact check CGC. They see that on ESPN and they take as gospel and form their opinions. They see a Coach who is branding GT as on the rise. And he isn’t lying about GT being at a low. Record wise over the last 4 years it has been the lowest in decades. Recruiting was stagnant. We didn’t really have many prospects. Fan support low. See the UVA game last year. Absolutely no sidewalk fan presence.

Recruits and sidewalk fans don’t know our history and not do they care. They care about what’s happening right now and where we will be going forward. CGC’s messaging is spot on in getting their attention in that regard.

I have to push back on this, mainly because I see so much of it. What this says is that the athletes Tech recruits are moved solely by - let's be frank - hype. There probably are athletes like that, but I sincerely doubt that they could get into Tech or that they would want to go there.

When a young man comes to Tech is is the result of a deliberation. It isn't an easy school to get into or to stay in. If what they wanted was a winning program and nothing else, they know where to concentrate their efforts and Tech is not that place. Sure, they want to go where they can win and I'm sure the new regime is attracting attention simply because it is new and seems dedicated to winning. But the idea that potential recruits are taking what they hear on ESPN '… as gospel" shows a contempt for the young men involved and their parents that needs to stop. Coach is selling the education Tech can provide at the same time as a winning program - listen to him, for a change - and this kind of dismissal of the concerns that young men have for their future is, imho, not helping. Let's treat our potential players like the young adults they are and see what happens.

 

[FightWinDrink]

We should let the statue of Bobby Dodd coach the team

 

[knoxjacket]

I guess some on here miss the good old days of CPJ defending mediocre seasons by calling us historically mediocre.

 

[iceeater1969]

I guess some on here miss the good old days of CPJ defending mediocre seasons by calling us historically mediocre.

Looking at the cpj record in reverse order.
Man, this guy started slowly then he guided us to a gator bowl victory!.

Thought he had it figured out till we had the injury plagued 2015 year. He proved he could win big the next year by winning the orange bowl!! .

Things went sideways for a while and then he showed he has a great system by going to an orange bowl in 2009!!!. Plus he had a ton of guys go high in the nfl draft.

Sure glad we stuck with this guy - we won 7.5 games a year but it seems like we are on the road to being elite.

(By the way winning 7.5 games when u play 2 easy games is pretty close to if not mediocre)..

 

[Beerbrewingjacket]

I have to push back on this, mainly because I see so much of it. What this says is that the athletes Tech recruits are moved solely by - let's be frank - hype. There probably are athletes like that, but I sincerely doubt that they could get into Tech or that they would want to go there.

When a young man comes to Tech is is the result of a deliberation. It isn't an easy school to get into or to stay in. If what they wanted was a winning program and nothing else, they know where to concentrate their efforts and Tech is not that place. Sure, they want to go where they can win and I'm sure the new regime is attracting attention simply because it is new and seems dedicated to winning. But the idea that potential recruits are taking what they hear on ESPN '… as gospel" shows a contempt for the young men involved and their parents that needs to stop. Coach is selling the education Tech can provide at the same time as a winning program - listen to him, for a change - and this kind of dismissal of the concerns that young men have for their future is, imho, not helping. Let's treat our potential players like the young adults they are and see what happens.

If you have really been listening to CGC you’ll know that his main message is getting kids to play at an elite level and getting them to the NFL. That’s his number one message. He has said you can get a great education too. He has even emphasized it by not allowing a certain player his goal of getting assigned the number 2 jersey until he reached a certain GPA.

But when he is selling the program, he is selling Atlanta and the NFL. Education only as a component. At least publicly. The NFL and Atlanta gets the recruits attention, the education sell comes after.

 

[okiemon]

Paul Johnson did all that by himself?

Good point. He had Sewak’s help.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[RickStromFan]

I think CPJ exited at the right time. Perhaps some truth stretching and Todd’s excellent/fund raising work will be enough to overcome API and GT combo.

The program needs to match uga or Clemson funding if it wants to compete at the same level.

But the record is what it is... and the record over the next two years will be what it will be....

Wait, is anyone still talking about Chan Gailey?

 

[Longestday]

@RickStromFan click on the link and read the list of achievements from the last 4 coaches.

No 10 years are the same when it comes to football with many influencing factors. Integration (Very important progress) is a big dividing line in sports. Another big dividing line is APR that really hit big in 2008. For those that are scratching heads on the term APR... it means you must be progressing to a degree in order to be eligible to play. No more taking all the easy classes just to stay full time in college.

2008 APR is a really big issue for GT. GT is not designed to graduate the masses in any degree. Where do you hide great athletic talent that wants nothing more than a shot at the NFL. Stanford is not GT. How many Clemson/Georgia players would be ineligible after 2 semesters at GT?

That said, hype works until you get slobber knockered. Perhaps CPJ was too “white hat” and not enough “gray hat” to say things he does not believe, did not help students slide by, and perhaps not “gray” enough to “play” the students a little better. I don’t think we hired a “black hat” person willing to do whatever it takes to win. Perhaps a gray hat is what we need to win more without selling out to The devil (Water Boy movie)

This makes me sad for GT football. Todd gives me hope as money can really help. As for the rest, I’ll let the past and future record speak for itself. Coolaid only works in the off season.

 

[bobongo]

Good point. He had Sewak’s help.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My point was that no coach operates in a vacuum. To say that a coach won this or lost that is to ignore everything else going on with the program. It's a gross oversimplification. A lot of other people, influences, cultures, and situations are involved, including monetary support.

 

[Beerbrewingjacket]

@RickStromFan click on the link and read the list of achievements from the last 4 coaches.

No 10 years are the same when it comes to football with many influencing factors. Integration (Very important progress) is a big dividing line in sports. Another big dividing line is APR that really hit big in 2008. For those that are scratching heads on the term APR... it means you must be progressing to a degree in order to be eligible to play. No more taking all the easy classes just to stay full time in college.

2008 APR is a really big issue for GT. GT is not designed to graduate the masses in any degree. Where do you hide great athletic talent that wants nothing more than a shot at the NFL. Stanford is not GT. How many Clemson/Georgia players would be ineligible after 2 semesters at GT?

That said, hype works until you get slobber knockered. Perhaps CPJ was too “white hat” and not enough “gray hat” to say things he does not believe, did not help students slide by, and perhaps not “gray” enough to “play” the students a little better. I don’t think we hired a “black hat” person willing to do whatever it takes to win. Perhaps a gray hat is what we need to win more without selling out to The devil (Water Boy movie)

This makes me sad for GT football. Todd gives me hope as money can really help. As for the rest, I’ll let the past and future record speak for itself. Coolaid only works in the off season.

I wish this site had a dislike button. I care about GT being a great avenue for great athletes to make it to the next level by playing at an elite level while getting a great education. Our APR is likely to take a bit of a hit trying balance this. You can’t have it both ways. But they don’t hand out trophies for APR and you don’t get recognition for that. With all due respect, this is a football program. What’s wrong with GT getting guys to their dream of playing in the NFL? Just because you are an elite talent doesn’t mean you can’t hack it at Tech. That’s a loser mentality that CGC is working to change.

Also, CGC wouldn’t give the #2 jersey to Tariq Carpenter after Spring because while he did well in camp he didn’t do what he needed to in he classroom. So after summer classes he had raised his GPA to a 3.0 and earned the #2 jersey. So to suggest that CGC is a “gray hat” ( which is a really ignorant analogy to make here) is foolish.

You are bitter. CPJ retired. He wasn’t fired. Get over yourself and either get on board or get run over. This is modern day college football. The dinosaur days are over.

 

[Skeptic]

There are going to be a small set of our "fans" very upset if Coach Collins is successful this year.

Now, that is just silly as it explicitly says those people want Georgia Tech to lose. We need to stop imputing motives to others that we might have in the same situation. While I sometimes wonder if at any minute he will blurt out that he is the chosen one, many of us have been fans too long to tie that to a current coach whose tenure probably is ephemeral at best, because that is the nature of football coaching. It is hard to get emotionally involved with somebody who leaves the motor running. Coaches come and go, and Tech has been here, if not forever, a long time. (I present as my poster boy for that view John Heisman, who apparently coached everywhere in the Western Hemisphere.)

 

[Skeptic]

I wanna go on record as saying I don't mind a little truth stretching in the interest of selling the program. But....


The whole "player coach" model is still unproven at GT. Yes, it worked wonders at Clemson, but it failed miserably at FSU. I'm giving CGC the benefit of the doubt until our record can speak for itself.... and I'm not giving him a full pass on this season.

My friend who teaches at Clemson and knows Swinney and goes to occasional practices, said there is nothing like a Swinney scorned when he goes after his team. He is perfectly capable of and willing to shred them and exhaust them if that's what it takes. And has done so. They love playing for him. It is the practicing for him that can hurt.

 

[Jd89]

I don’t get it. We get a nice ESPN piece, yes there lots of selling in it, and half of you want to crap on it. Did you go to GT, are you even a fan or a dawg in disguise? If you want to nit pick an ESPN promo, go do it on a UGA site, they love to do that stuff. Not one game has been played and UnKool and the Gang is already out to put down the coach. As a fan or alumni, you don’t need to fact check like a bunch of news channel fact auditors or worry about a possible slight to a former coach.

FWIW....I went to the spring game and Collins was coaching, not Johnson. Johnson is gone, like every other coach before him. Maybe a number of you are sad to see CPJ go and feel he was “slighted” in this ESPN piece, but he is gone forever. If his triple option offense is more important to you than GT, go be an Service academy fan, they would love you on their boards. Coach Collins has no choice, he has to build a new identity for the school because the triple option, which was our brand, is gone (and as I recall it was mainly mentioned as an anomaly/gimmick offense...agree or not, that was our brand). Let’s embrace the positive vibe for our football team, bathe in the stretched truth (which every school does) and see how this impacts recruiting for us over the next several years. Maybe, just maybe, you guys will be happy or at least have some body of work to complain about.

 

[Beerbrewingjacket]

I don’t get it. We get a nice ESPN piece, yes there lots of selling in it, and half of you want to crap on it. Did you go to GT, are you even a fan or a dawg in disguise? If you want to nit pick an ESPN promo, go do it on a UGA site, they love to do that stuff. Not one game has been played and UnKool and the Gang is already out to put down the coach. As a fan or alumni, you don’t need to fact check like a bunch of news channel fact auditors or worry about a possible slight to a former coach.

FWIW....I went to the spring game and Collins was coaching, not Johnson. Johnson is gone, like every other coach before him. Maybe a number of you are sad to see CPJ go and feel he was “slighted” in this ESPN piece, but he is gone forever. If his triple option offense is more important to you than GT, go be an Service academy fan, they would love you on their boards. Coach Collins has no choice, he has to build a new identity for the school because the triple option, which was our brand, is gone (and as I recall it was mainly mentioned as an anomaly/gimmick offense...agree or not, that was our brand). Let’s embrace the positive vibe for our football team, bathe in the stretched truth (which every school does) and see how this impacts recruiting for us over the next several years. Maybe, just maybe, you guys will be happy or at least have some body of work to complain about.

Well said

 

[RickStromFan]

@RickStromFan click on the link and read the list of achievements from the last 4 coaches.

No 10 years are the same when it comes to football with many influencing factors. Integration (Very important progress) is a big dividing line in sports. Another big dividing line is APR that really hit big in 2008. For those that are scratching heads on the term APR... it means you must be progressing to a degree in order to be eligible to play. No more taking all the easy classes just to stay full time in college.

2008 APR is a really big issue for GT. GT is not designed to graduate the masses in any degree. Where do you hide great athletic talent that wants nothing more than a shot at the NFL. Stanford is not GT. How many Clemson/Georgia players would be ineligible after 2 semesters at GT?

That said, hype works until you get slobber knockered. Perhaps CPJ was too “white hat” and not enough “gray hat” to say things he does not believe, did not help students slide by, and perhaps not “gray” enough to “play” the students a little better. I don’t think we hired a “black hat” person willing to do whatever it takes to win. Perhaps a gray hat is what we need to win more without selling out to The devil (Water Boy movie)

This makes me sad for GT football. Todd gives me hope as money can really help. As for the rest, I’ll let the past and future record speak for itself. Coolaid only works in the off season.

That list of achievements is a bit skewed though. Ross didn't play as many games/year and inherited the worst team of any of the listed coaches...and won a natty 3 years later. He's - by far - the best coach we've had in the past 40 years.

Regardless, like others here, I don't get why a few "fans" continue to throw shade at Coach Collins in their continued support of the departed PJ. It's obvious there are a few people who are bigger PJ/TO fans than they are of the school. Which is sad.

 

[ClydeBrick]

Why is this thread not locked?

 

[Longestday]

I am a triple option fan that graduated from GT. I am a big triple option fan... a really big one. CPJ left at the right time and he should not have stayed longer.... nor should a triple option coach been hired in my opinion. I don't care if this makes anyone sad.... does the color yellow make you sad?

No amount of writing will change our minds. The record is and will be what it is and will be.

I have been contemplating the gray and black hat of football. If you don’t think it happens, you are fooling yourself (Yes gray hat stuff happened even under CPJ). I wonder if CPJ sided way more to the students at the cost of wins? Perhaps CPJ should have used propaganda over what he felt was the truth. You might call this shade, I call it as how I see it and wonder if it is what is needed to win more... there were a lot of kids that could have been moved a long that were not... a scholarship was for 4 years under CPJ as long as you put the work in despite ability. Could CPJ done more to ensure that less students failed/drug tested out of GT... whatever it took to make wins happen? Mills would have never been kicked out of Clemson or Georgia. How do I even feel about these gray statements. I am not sure....