Coaches on the Hot Seat

[AE 87]

Is it just me, or was the GT basketball team in better shape for the next season when CBG arrived than now?

 

[McCamish Maniacs]

Is it just me, or was the GT basketball team in better shape for the next season when CBG arrived than now?

It may not be just you, but I don't think you're right

 

[awbuzz]

@AE 87 - team is in better shape today than when CBG took over... JMO.

 

[kg01]

Is it just me, or was the GT basketball team in better shape for the next season when CBG arrived than now?

I don't think you're wrong but it's a '6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other' conversation. CPH made us into a joke, CBG has made us into a mid-major joke.

 

[AE 87]

How many acc games did CBG win with a team he mostly inherited?

 

[RamblinRed]

I'll say this, if I am the GT AD, i'd rather be in the position today than the position 4 years ago.

It's not just about the talent that is on the court - there is more to having a successful program - epsecially since most of that talent will be gone in a year or two.
When Gregory took the job he had iman on his way to the NBA. So he had 2 guys to really build around - Glen Rice JR and Brian Oliver, Kam and Dan were 2 young bigs with alot of long term potential. Well, Glen did not even make it through the season due to his immaturity issues and Oliver transferred over the summer.
But more importantly than that, the behind the scenes was a mess. GT had lost 2 schollies the last 3 seasons due to APR failings and was literally one bad semester away from being banned from post season play and losing more schollies.
Hewitt had also upset some local AAU guys his last couple of years so some of those relationships were strained and had to be smoothed over.
on top of that GT didn't have much money to give - Gregory nearly turned the job down afraid GT wouldn't be able to provide enough money to hire a solid staff - Izzo had to talk him into taking the job. He eventually got 500K for staff - which is below avg for ACC, but better than what he feared.

So basically as a AD - you are going to prospective coaches and your situation is you have less than avg money to pay you and your staff.
You have academic issues in the program that need immediate attention or you are going to be banned from the postseason and lose schollies
You have issues with the local AAU programs that have to be resolved.
Not exactly a happy set of circumstances.

Right now you have a program that does not have alot of talent. But you have no academic issues, you have good relationships with the local AAU's and hopefully we have more money available. And you also have 4-5 schollies to use right off the bat to try to bring talent in (which is important because new staffs can recruit on hope and do quite well).

You can certainly argue that the program on the court is worse now than when Gregory got here. I'd say its about the same. But all the other off court items that a coach has to deal with and can affect how quickly you can build a program and how high or ceiling can be are better now than 4 years ago. Honestly, the position on the court (w/l) is probably the least important as that can be overhauled relatively quickly (2-3 yrs) if you have the schollies available to use.

 

[AE 87]

I'll say this, if I am the GT AD, i'd rather be in the position today than the position 4 years ago.

It's not just about the talent that is on the court - there is more to having a successful program - epsecially since most of that talent will be gone in a year or two.
When Gregory took the job he had iman on his way to the NBA. So he had 2 guys to really build around - Glen Rice JR and Brian Oliver, Kam and Dan were 2 young bigs with alot of long term potential. Well, Glen did not even make it through the season due to his immaturity issues and Oliver transferred over the summer.
But more importantly than that, the behind the scenes was a mess. GT had lost 2 schollies the last 3 seasons due to APR failings and was literally one bad semester away from being banned from post season play and losing more schollies.
Hewitt had also upset some local AAU guys his last couple of years so some of those relationships were strained and had to be smoothed over.
on top of that GT didn't have much money to give - Gregory nearly turned the job down afraid GT wouldn't be able to provide enough money to hire a solid staff - Izzo had to talk him into taking the job. He eventually got 500K for staff - which is below avg for ACC, but better than what he feared.

So basically as a AD - you are going to prospective coaches and your situation is you have less than avg money to pay you and your staff.
You have academic issues in the program that need immediate attention or you are going to be banned from the postseason and lose schollies
You have issues with the local AAU programs that have to be resolved.
Not exactly a happy set of circumstances.

Right now you have a program that does not have alot of talent. But you have no academic issues, you have good relationships with the local AAU's and hopefully we have more money available. And you also have 4-5 schollies to use right off the bat to try to bring talent in (which is important because new staffs can recruit on hope and do quite well).

You can certainly argue that the program on the court is worse now than when Gregory got here. I'd say its about the same. But all the other off court items that a coach has to deal with and can affect how quickly you can build a program and how high or ceiling can be are better now than 4 years ago. Honestly, the position on the court (w/l) is probably the least important as that can be overhauled relatively quickly (2-3 yrs) if you have the schollies available to use.

So, ... he won more ACC games his first year? (jk, that's my shout-out to @cyptomcat)

 

[RamblinRed]

Gregory won 4 games in year 1.

You had Glen Rice Jr. Who played half the season before getting kicked off the team.
Then the rest of the rotation was (and the group that had to finish out the last half of the ACC)
JR Mfon Udofia
SO Daniel Miller
SO Kam Holsey
SO Brandon Reed
SO Jason Morris
FR Julian Royal
GS Pierre Jordan
SO Nate Hicks

the last 2 aren't even ACC caliber. Morris got hurt.

 

[kg01]

Ah, the Pierre Jordan experiment. Didn't that relationship net us Carter (and not much else)?

 

[AE 87]

Gregory won 4 games in year 1.

You had Glen Rice Jr. Who played half the season before getting kicked off the team.
Then the rest of the rotation was (and the group that had to finish out the last half of the ACC)
JR Mfon Udofia
SO Daniel Miller
SO Kam Holsey
SO Brandon Reed
SO Jason Morris
FR Julian Royal
GS Pierre Jordan
SO Nate Hicks

the last 2 aren't even ACC caliber. Morris got hurt.

Sorry, I was being a jerk. I really appreciate your insight into our program and especially the financial situation. I remember D-Rad saying that money wasn't an issue, and while we all knew that this was a lie, I didn't know to what extent.

I still think that the talent we have right now should be able to produce more wins with better game-management/coaching.

 

[Peacone36]

Reed wasnt ACC caliber either (at least on the offensive end). I was really hoping to strike DeAndre Kane type gold with him after what he did as a frosh in the A-Sun.

 

[RamblinRed]

You look at that 2011 team are their are probably 5 ACC level talents, and only one is older than a SO. Royal was overrated as well and Morris couldn't seem to stay healthy after his FR year. That was a fairly crappy team talent wise.

AE I agree completely that this year's team should have more wins. I'd say at least 4 more. That's on both the coaches and the players and part of the reason why I don't think Gregory deserves a year 5. If he could have shown improvement with this team and gotten to say the NIT, I would have said give him another year - and I think the AD would have definately given him one.

For a multitude of reasons the job was not a very good job in 2011. It's a better job now, but only from the standpoint that the off the court issues have been resolved. From an on court talent standpoint it's a rebuild. Though I think both TJ's have nice long term potential. But everywhere else needs to be rebuilt.

 

[Peacone36]

I'm glad we agree especially on Jorgy. I really like Lammers too.if you can put a forward that can score with him, say, Robert Carter, so you don't have to feature BL on offense, he can be really productive.

 

[RamblinRed]

I'm glad we agree especially on Jorgy. I really like Lammers too.if you can put a forward that can score with him, say, Robert Carter, so you don't have to feature BL on offense, he can be really productive.

I've maintained since he signed that Jorgy would be a top shelf ACC PG (not necessarily all ACC, but Top 5-6) by his JR yr. frankly he is the most natural PG we've had at GT in years. When we play more uptempo with him running point we look alot better on offense. He actually plays well fast and is the one guard we have who really keeps his head up when he dribbles.
He's not a speedster - but he 'fast with the ball in his hands'. I watched a fair bit of tape on him when GT was recruiting him and really liked his game. I think his scoring will improve as well. He won't be a dominant scorer but he should develop into a competent one, and more importantly one who is not afraid to take a big shot.

i like Lammers as well. Reminds me a little of Miller. Not assuming he will develop as well as Miller did, but he has some nice potential. He is coordinated for his size - which is always issues #1 with bigs. Pretty good instincts both rebounding and defending. If you can make him a secondary scorer and have a strong scoring PF, that would be a great fit. I would like to see him and Jacobs on the floor together a fair bit next season. Jacobs is easily the most natural post scorer we have on this team.

One thing that bothers me is when fans see a kid, especially as a FR and sometimes a SO and basically give up on them and think they aren't going to be better players. Very few college players are good as FR and SO, you really need to wait to see until their JR yr to see how they ultimately develop. Even as bad as Tadric has been this year - I saw him in HS - I just don't believe he is going to stay looking like he has most of his FR season.

 

[cyptomcat]

So, ... he won more ACC games his first year? (jk, that's my shout-out to @cyptomcat)

?

 

[jacketup]

Here's a name: Rick Stansbury

Won more SEC titles than anyone not at UK while at MSU. Retired, but is an assistant at Texas A&M. 55 years old, may be ready for another head coaching job.

 

[RamblinRed]

One thing I will say from past experience. I would be surprised if GT went after a big name if they decide to make a change. That is generally not what GT does. It tends to go for more of the hungry up and comer types. That's why i'm keeping a closer eye on guys like Prohm, White, Miller, than guys like Howland or Smart. Someone like Mack is probably at the upper end of what I think GT is likely to make a play for.

 

[Peacone36]

IMHO you can flush the Marshall and Smart aspirations, sure call one (GM) and move on.

I'm just as happy with Prohm White Mack as I am with Howland. Any of those 4 is a big win for this program IMHO.

Sharman White would be my first phone calling to fill a staff position. If not, where is Korey McCray these days?

 

[dtm1997]

IMHO you can flush the Marshall and Smart aspirations, sure call one (GM) and move on.

I'm just as happy with Prohm White Mack as I am with Howland. Any of those 4 is a big win for this program IMHO.

Sharman White would be my first phone calling to fill a staff position. If not, where is Korey McCray these days?

I agree with one of them as assistants and if I'm MBob, I'd even suggest having Herrion considered for a spot, if he wants to. He's making really nice inroads to places we haven't been before.

 

[RamblinRed]

McCray left LSU last spring. I don't think he has a job right now.
I agree that calling Sharman White would be a good call.