Can Jordan last a whole season?

[TechTravis]

Every qb has limitations. You don't think JT has limitations?

1. We can't run the whole offense because he can't run the midline or qb follow. Those two plays open up an entire sequence of play calling as it forces the defense to adjust. We have much less of a chess game when we can't run that basic part of the offense.
2. JT is also short. He has trouble seeing down field. He doesn't see receivers running free all the time.
3. Also, we can't seem to get 4th and short anymore. Was that a problem with Tevin? Almost never. (with one notable exception, ugghh)
4. JT often times tries to make more out of a play instead of taking what's given. Sometimes it works out, but most of the time he loses extra yards or the ball.

Now you made me hate on one of my favorite players. Thanks a lot.

I'd rather have what JT gives us than midline. Personal preference. And Tevin couldn't hit open receivers, so it doesn't matter. Besides, he's listed as only an inch shorter than Tevin is listed as, so let's not act like Tevin was some pocket statue.

Look, Tevin Washington was fine. He ran the option well. I was a little wired and tired last night and made a bigger deal about some things than maybe I should have. I'm saying he's not what our QB's should aspire to. We can and should be better at QB than Tevin Washington.

 

[RedPete]

Are we comparing to TW because he was the most recent QB, or because JM resembles his style? Regardless, I think it's gonna feel a lot different next year without Justin Thomas! His skills were unique and enabled CPJ to open up the offense. Before JT came along, pretty-much any time our QB threw the football our butt-holes clinched in fear. Joey Weaver put it better in his FTRS piece:
"There's an unmeasurable sign, to me, that Thomas is a good passer. Under previous quarterbacks, any time I saw them drop back to pass and then put the ball in the air, it was like my heart skipped a beat and time stood still. I never had any idea what was going to happen, and statistics tell us there was a better chance that the pass would be incomplete or intercepted than caught. I don't get that feeling when I see Thomas drop to pass. Ask yourself -- the feeling you got when Nesbitt, Washington, and Lee dropped back to pass...is it the same one you get when Thomas does? Because I, personally, trust Thomas's decision-making and arm accuracy far more than I did any of the other quarterbacks to play for Paul Johnson."

So next year we'll likely have a mere mortal at quarterback again. Can Jordan last a whole season? I say yes because, to me, he plays just like the previous QBs before the special Justin Thomas. But here's hoping either Jordan or another young QB on the roster (Jones, Johnson, ?Campbell) can demonstrate some dynamic playmaking ability in practice to separate himself in some way.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Are we comparing to TW because he was the most recent QB, or because JM resembles his style? Regardless, I think it's gonna feel a lot different next year without Justin Thomas! His skills were unique and enabled CPJ to open up the offense. Before JT came along, pretty-much any time our QB threw the football our butt-holes clinched in fear. Joey Weaver put it better in his FTRS piece:
"There's an unmeasurable sign, to me, that Thomas is a good passer. Under previous quarterbacks, any time I saw them drop back to pass and then put the ball in the air, it was like my heart skipped a beat and time stood still. I never had any idea what was going to happen, and statistics tell us there was a better chance that the pass would be incomplete or intercepted than caught. I don't get that feeling when I see Thomas drop to pass. Ask yourself -- the feeling you got when Nesbitt, Washington, and Lee dropped back to pass...is it the same one you get when Thomas does? Because I, personally, trust Thomas's decision-making and arm accuracy far more than I did any of the other quarterbacks to play for Paul Johnson."

So next year we'll likely have a mere mortal at quarterback again. Can Jordan last a whole season? I say yes because, to me, he plays just like the previous QBs before the special Justin Thomas. But here's hoping either Jordan or another young QB on the roster (Jones, Johnson, ?Campbell) can demonstrate some dynamic playmaking ability in practice to separate himself in some way.

Depends on the situation. If we are in must pass situations, I agree wholeheartedly. If we are pounding them into submission with the inside/outside run game and then hit 'em with play action, I disagree. When we are money on the ground, it sets up the pass perfectly. You don't have to be Joe Montana to hit a wide open wr.

Having a qb that brings back the weapon of the inside qb run sets a whole lot of things in motion including easier passes.

 

[TechTravis]

I think you overestimate the midline game. I'd rather have what JT brings than midline. Inside runs are what you have B- Backs for...

 

[AE 87]

A lot of craziness in this thread, imo.
I don't get the "I hope so and so isn't the starter" stuff. I hope the best QB for us is our starter regardless of what I've seen from them. Personally, I've seen MJ do everything I want to see -- throw a nice short pass, throw a nice long pass to a streaking open receiver, make good option reads, and run hard. Of course, I'd like to see it more consistently, but I don't know what's being asked of him given that CPJ has said that he gave MJ specific directions on plays that I had expected something else.

As far as Tevin is concerned, our offense averaged 2.68 ppd against BCS AQ in 2011 (#9 nationally) and 2.95 ppd in 2012 (#9 nationally). The only other times we were in the top 10 by that scoring efficiency stat were 2009 and 2014 when we were #2 nationally each year.

 

[Skeptic]

Every qb has limitations. You don't think JT has limitations?

1. We can't run the whole offense because he can't run the midline or qb follow. Those two plays open up an entire sequence of play calling as it forces the defense to adjust. We have much less of a chess game when we can't run that basic part of the offense.
2. JT is also short. He has trouble seeing down field. He doesn't see receivers running free all the time.
3. Also, we can't seem to get 4th and short anymore. Was that a problem with Tevin? Almost never. (with one notable exception, ugghh)
4. JT often times tries to make more out of a play instead of taking what's given. Sometimes it works out, but most of the time he loses extra yards or the ball.

Now you made me hate on one of my favorite players. Thanks a lot.

I saw some irony when Thomas got in Lynch's face when he tried to get cute and cut back for a big play down near the goal line instead of taking a couple of yards on the edge and fell down. Three days later it actually is kid of funny. And I have to say after watching that 4th quarter maybe a dozen times, and rerunning and stopping the frames, it did not appear to me that Thomas at any time look anywhere else but to Stewart and then Searcy on the first drive. He was zeroed in on them all the way and I have to think that is the play and there is no progression. But I would surely like to know.

 

[Skeptic]

I think you overestimate the midline game. I'd rather have what JT brings than midline. Inside runs are what you have B- Backs for...

Umm, I ain't no X and O guy and know little about Johnson's spread, but I think you are in a minority of one, and Johnson is on the other side. (Check out Navy against Army and watch the midline option. For that matter, check out Army against Navy.) I can remember Nesbitt and Dwyer exclusively running the midline to set up the winning FG against Clemson in '08. Makes 'em defend tackle to tackle and keep people from skating outside.

 

[UgaBlows]

Making the right read on B-back give or take hasn't always been JT's forte imo

 

[bke1984]

The midline is huge. It stops MLB's from jetting outside and following the motion, which is what has happened a lot the past couple years.

 

[TechTravis]

Umm, I ain't no X and O guy and know little about Johnson's spread, but I think you are in a minority of one, and Johnson is on the other side. (Check out Navy against Army and watch the midline option. For that matter, check out Army against Navy.) I can remember Nesbitt and Dwyer exclusively running the midline to set up the winning FG against Clemson in '08. Makes 'em defend tackle to tackle and keep people from skating outside.

My answer to that would be; if CPJ feels that way, why was JT the starter? If he can't run midline, and midline is so important, what was he doing in there?
I think people misinterpret my misgivings for hostility. I didn't (and don't) hate Tevin Washington. I think it's imperative that in this day and age of college football that the guy quarterbacking an option team be able to make plays when nothing's there. I'll take the missed reads and zeroing in with JT if it also means the big plays he's capable of. On every snap JT takes, there is a chance he will do something spectacular. I'll take that if it also means having some negative plays. That's what I'm trying to say. If MJ can do that, more power to him, but I can't wrap my mind around some of y'all saying that a low-ceiling high-floor guy is preferable. I don't think it's any coincidence that JT has taken Georgia Tech some places we've haven't been in a long time. He's a playmaker. I'd rather have that. It's personal preference, but I think it bears repeating that the two QB's who have beaten u(sic)ga under CPJ weren't good option guys, but guys who were tough and could make plays.

 

[bke1984]

My answer to that would be; if CPJ feels that way, why was JT the starter? If he can't run midline, and midline is so important, what was he doing in there?
I think people misinterpret my misgivings for hostility. I didn't (and don't) hate Tevin Washington. I think it's imperative that in this day and age of college football that the guy quarterbacking an option team be able to make plays when nothing's there. I'll take the missed reads and zeroing in with JT if it also means the big plays he's capable of. On every snap JT takes, there is a chance he will do something spectacular. I'll take that if it also means having some negative plays. That's what I'm trying to say. If MJ can do that, more power to him, but I can't wrap my mind around some of y'all saying that a low-ceiling high-floor guy is preferable. I don't think it's any coincidence that JT has taken Georgia Tech some places we've haven't been in a long time. He's a playmaker. I'd rather have that. It's personal preference, but I think it bears repeating that the two QB's who have beaten u(sic)ga under CPJ weren't good option guys, but guys who were tough and could make plays.

JT can't run the midline well because he weighs about 5'7", 185 lbs. Midline requires you to get some push like a B-back would. This is why bigger guys like Nesbitt, Byerly, and MJ are better at it.

I'm not sure one is preferable to the other. There are times where JT's skillset was needed and times where a skillset like one of the others is needed. That's kind of what makes football fun, right?

For example, I think we may have been a bit better last year with a bigger QB. We struggled at B-back and it took away our ability to run inside. Sure would have been nice to have another option there to open up the pitch lanes.

 

[TechTravis]

JT can't run the midline well because he weighs about 5'7", 185 lbs. Midline requires you to get some push like a B-back would. This is why bigger guys like Nesbitt, Byerly, and MJ are better at it.

I'm not sure one is preferable to the other. There are times where JT's skillset was needed and times where a skillset like one of the others is needed. That's kind of what makes football fun, right?

For example, I think we may have been a bit better last year with a bigger QB. We struggled at B-back and it took away our ability to run inside. Sure would have been nice to have another option there to open up the pitch lanes.

He's listed at 5'11. And this has little to do with our conversation, but we could've had Cam Newton last year and I'm not sure how much better it would've been if all the same injuries happen...

 

[Skeptic]

My answer to that would be; if CPJ feels that way, why was JT the starter? If he can't run midline, and midline is so important, what was he doing in there?
I think people misinterpret my misgivings for hostility. I didn't (and don't) hate Tevin Washington. I think it's imperative that in this day and age of college football that the guy quarterbacking an option team be able to make plays when nothing's there. I'll take the missed reads and zeroing in with JT if it also means the big plays he's capable of. On every snap JT takes, there is a chance he will do something spectacular. I'll take that if it also means having some negative plays. That's what I'm trying to say. If MJ can do that, more power to him, but I can't wrap my mind around some of y'all saying that a low-ceiling high-floor guy is preferable. I don't think it's any coincidence that JT has taken Georgia Tech some places we've haven't been in a long time. He's a playmaker. I'd rather have that. It's personal preference, but I think it bears repeating that the two QB's who have beaten u(sic)ga under CPJ weren't good option guys, but guys who were tough and could make plays.

As I noted I don't do X and O stuff because I am not very good at it. But I know guys on the board who are, and i have read tons of material on Johnson's offense, and there is no question as to the value of the midline. Thomas is really good at some stuff, not so good at other stuff. The midline is one, and as another poster noted, he misses a lot of reads and one of the results is that almost everybody, including TV analysts, think it is a dive play when actually it should not have been. As I noted in an earlier post, he is really good at winning. He has a knack, whatever that is. But I think ND started Tech's decline last season when they embarrassed us with a kind of okay defense but an outstanding middle linebacker. He backed up two steps from the LOS and became a free range guy because nobody could get to him and we couldn't make him stay home. To me that became the model for "figuring out" the offense all season. We could no longer get to the edge nor handle the middle.

Thomas is in there because he can win, but if you recall about mid-season when we got on another November roll, Johnson said he had "simplified" the play calling to help him. Now, I couldn't run it either, nor probably could anybody on this board because those decisions come rapid fire in this offense. He is "in there" because he can win. To note a player's deficiencies does not imply anybody on the board is saying can the guy. My wife is a bad cook but I ain't gonna divorce her.

 

[bke1984]

He's listed at 5'11. And this has little to do with our conversation, but we could've had Cam Newton last year and I'm not sure how much better it would've been if all the same injuries happen...

If he's 5'11" then I'm 5'10"

 

[dressedcheeseside]

The TW discussion is not exactly the same as our "moving forward w/o Justin" discussion because none of our qb's are exactly TW. Jordan is similar, but I think he brings a little bit more in arm strength and "making something out of nothing." That run on the goal line in the BC game was an example. It was a busted play where the Bback took the wrong track. MJ saw a lane to the outside and didn't hesitate, he took advantage of it and used his athleticism to beat the defense to the pylon. When he has time to set his feet, he can make accurate throws downfield. All of that is pure icing on the cake, however. His biggest asset is the inside run game and/or the threat of it which freezes linebackers and safeties which opens up the edges.

 

[Rock]

If he's 5'11" then I'm 5'10"

I am 5'10 and taller than JT. 5'9 at best.

Size is always exaggerated. Even in HS. (I was listed 6'1, 220. I was 5'10, 185)

 

[Boomergump]

The TW discussion is not exactly the same as our "moving forward w/o Justin" discussion because none of our qb's are exactly TW. Jordan is similar, but I think he brings a little bit more in arm strength and "making something out of nothing." That run on the goal line in the BC game was an example. It was a busted play where the Bback took the wrong track. MJ saw a lane to the outside and didn't hesitate, he took advantage of it and used his athleticism to beat the defense to the pylon. When he has time to set his feet, he can make accurate throws downfield. All of that is pure icing on the cake, however. His biggest asset is the inside run game and/or the threat of it which freezes linebackers and safeties which opens up the edges.

It is no secret that I hold TW in very high esteem as a QB in our system. He will most likely make a huge impact on the guys we have in the program in terms of transferring knowledge. If we are to compare MJ to TW and limit ourselves to physical attributes, then I think people who put a ton of stock in that stuff would be really happy. MJ is bigger, more physical, and faster than TW, plus he has a stronger arm. If MJ ever learns to run the offense as well as TW, we will be in fine shape. He has made a ton of progress and needs to make a bit more as well. However, let's not pretend that he is showing signs of having reached his ceiling either. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[GTFLETCH]

Yes MJ can last a whole season

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Every qb has limitations. You don't think JT has limitations?

1. We can't run the whole offense because he can't run the midline or qb follow. Those two plays open up an entire sequence of play calling as it forces the defense to adjust. We have much less of a chess game when we can't run that basic part of the offense.
2. JT is also short. He has trouble seeing down field. He doesn't see receivers running free all the time.
3. Also, we can't seem to get 4th and short anymore. Was that a problem with Tevin? Almost never. (with one notable exception, ugghh)
4. JT often times tries to make more out of a play instead of taking what's given. Sometimes it works out, but most of the time he loses extra yards or the ball.

Now you made me hate on one of my favorite players. Thanks a lot.

Don't worry, only you and I are perfect.

I think JT is probably my second favorite QB after JN. And that is largely from his game in his sophomore year.

 

[Skeptic]

It is no secret that I hold TW in very high esteem as a QB in our system. He will most likely make a huge impact on the guys we have in the program in terms of transferring knowledge. If we are to compare MJ to TW and limit ourselves to physical attributes, then I think people who put a ton of stock in that stuff would be really happy. MJ is bigger, more physical, and faster than TW, plus he has a stronger arm. If MJ ever learns to run the offense as well as TW, we will be in fine shape. He has made a ton of progress and needs to make a bit more as well. However, let's not pretend that he is showing signs of having reached his ceiling either. Nothing could be further from the truth.

My favorite TW play of all was in Atlanta when he was either a sophomore or junior, playing Clemson which I believe was unbeaten at the time. On the goal line, ran his Bback option and the big, bruising and very athletic Clemson nose tackle absolutely blew it up, just crushed our guy. And almost instantly realized that Washington had pulled the ball out and stepped around both of them into the end zone. His body language was priceless. Like, "Dang, man!" A bonus to the value of the midline, I suppose.