Zach Pyron is a tough dude!

[GTLorenzo]

If Zach would’ve had just a little more time and our receivers could’ve gotten separation, ZP has over 300 yards passing. He played hard and fought until the end when he was clearly in pain. This was basically a 10 point game without the pick 6. Given how poorly we played in some areas, the officiating and playing backups, we did better than expected. Lots of stuff to clean up, but I’d be happy to go to battle with ZP any time.

 

[Root4GT]

There is a habit in this board of rationalizing losses. Notre Dame is the #1 defense in opponent adjusted FEI. They played like they were on a mission.

Their Safety Xavier Watts won the Nagurski trophy for best defensive player last season. He’s playing better this year.

Pyron had an ESPN QBR of 73.9 in this game, despite two picks.

Zach started the game playing great. Completed his first 9 passes. Then he went 5 for 19 which is very bad. He was pressured but it appeared the pressure got to him more than just physically. Then he settled down on the final scoring drive and played great on that drive. Early in the game he was sliding or avoiding contact on his runs that were very unusual for him. I would guess he was told to protect himself from taking a big hit. He played about how we should expect a gut who has not seen meaningful minutes in nearly 2 years to play. Ok but not well enough to beat a very good defense.

 

[stinger78]

If Zach would’ve had just a little more time and our receivers could’ve gotten separation, ZP has over 300 yards passing. He played hard and fought until the end when he was clearly in pain. This was basically a 10 point game without the pick 6. Given how poorly we played in some areas, the officiating and playing backups, we did better than expected. Lots of stuff to clean up, but I’d be happy to go to battle with ZP any time.

Yes. That late pick-6 made the outcome seem worse. W/o that, it’s 24-14 at the end, and we’d botched two makeable FG’s. Suppose we make 1 of 2 FG’s, the score is now 24-17. That’s about how it felt to me.

ND absolutely controlled the game and we couldn’t ever seem to generate momentum from one possession to the next, mostly due to our own mistakes, but the game was not a blowout.

 

[yeti92]

We got out-athleted yesterday. There were coaching errors, but speed and size disadvantages took their toll.

Pretty much agree. I think even if you eliminate a lot of the mistakes (botched FGs, sloppy tackling, ints), ND was physically superior and the way they played they still would have won.

 

[jeffgt14]

Difference between Pyron and King is King is a playmaker. Pyron does well when he just runs the play and he threw really well yesterday. Struggled a bit more when we were forced to be a bit more one dimensional.

King seems to have the ability to make a play out of nothing if the play breaks down. I'm not sure I saw Pyron capable of doing that and it allowed ND to really not have to worry about the QB scramble. The scrambles Pyron did have, I don't think he saw the field well.

 

[g0lftime]

If Zach would’ve had just a little more time and our receivers could’ve gotten separation, ZP has over 300 yards passing. He played hard and fought until the end when he was clearly in pain. This was basically a 10 point game without the pick 6. Given how poorly we played in some areas, the officiating and playing backups, we did better than expected. Lots of stuff to clean up, but I’d be happy to go to battle with ZP any time.

We must improve the run game but may not have the personnel without HK. Without a run game, our red zone offense will be hampered severely. ZP can do short yardage runs but it's very difficult from the 20 to inside the 5. I keep expecting him to fake a run and hit a jump or quick hitter to the TE.

 

[57jacket]

Difference between Pyron and King is King is a playmaker. Pyron does well when he just runs the play and he threw really well yesterday. Struggled a bit more when we were forced to be a bit more one dimensional.

King seems to have the ability to make a play out of nothing if the play breaks down. I'm not sure I saw Pyron capable of doing that and it allowed ND to really not have to worry about the QB scramble. The scrambles Pyron did have, I don't think he saw the field well.

Speed difference

 

[cpf2001]

I thought Pyron’s scramble reads improved later in the game. Would have liked to see an occasional step up in the pocket to find a receiver but the fourth and ten scramble was very nice.

People here acting like this is his ceiling. Probably the same people who were ready to throw King to the wolves after some of the games last year - “see, he threw a ton of picks at A&M too, he sucks”

 

[LT 1967]

Some encouraging words for Zach from Coach Key and Jordan Williams. See the AJC article below. Basically. it takes the total team to be successful, not just the QB.

Takeaways from a Georgia Tech loss to No. 12 Notre Dame

It may be easy, at first glance, to conclude Georgia Tech had its lunch money taken by No. 12 Notre Dame on Saturday at Mercedes-Benz Stadium because star quarterback Haynes King didn’t play. But that wasn’t exactly the full story.

www.ajc.com

 

[stinger78]

We must improve the run game but may not have the personnel without HK. Without a run game, our red zone offense will be hampered severely. ZP can do short yardage runs but it's very difficult from the 20 to inside the 5. I keep expecting him to fake a run and hit a jump or quick hitter to the TE.

That last TD he blew that ball in there to Malik (?). He also put that long pass to Janneh on a dime. ZP brings that aspect to our O. He’s got a very strong, accurate arm when he has time.

 

[slugboy]

Zach started the game playing great. Completed his first 9 passes. Then he went 5 for 19 which is very bad. He was pressured but it appeared the pressure got to him more than just physically. Then he settled down on the final scoring drive and played great on that drive. Early in the game he was sliding or avoiding contact on his runs that were very unusual for him. I would guess he was told to protect himself from taking a big hit. He played about how we should expect a gut who has not seen meaningful minutes in nearly 2 years to play. Ok but not well enough to beat a very good defense.

I don’t know if our offense is designed around the run, but…

Against FSU we threw 16 passes for 146 yards and won. We ran for 36 rushes for 190 yards. Win

Ga State: 29 passes for 274 yards, 32 rushes for 274 yards. Win

Syracuse: 40 passes for 266 yards, 25 rushes for 112 yards. Loss

Louisville: 32 passes for 312 yards, 35 rushes for 105 yards. Loss

Duke: 32 passes for 167 yards, 48 rushes for 247 yards. Win

UNC: 23 passes for 134 yards, 48 rushes for 385 yards. Win

Notre Dame: 39 passes for 247 yards, 29 rushes for 64 yards. Loss

I think the Syracuse game showed a recipe: stifle the run and we lose. If we get 150 yards on the ground or thereabouts, we have a good shot at winning. It could be a coincidence, but I don’t think we have a backup plan for when the run isn’t working—at least, not in any games this year.

I’m not critical of Faulkner’s play calling—he seems to call a good game. I do think our passing offense needs to be strong enough to carry the offense, and it doesn’t seem to be.

Once the run got shut down, and it got shut down cold, Pyron was in a tough spot.

Overall, his numbers were pretty good. I think he would have needed a Doug Flutie game to win without a rushing attack.

It’s an offseason problem, but it looks like Faulkner needs to build up the passing game to the point it can carry the team, or make sure the run game is near impossible to shut down

Defense and special teams aren’t winning the game for us either, but that’s another story

Also, we aren’t a high tempo offense. When we win, we limit possessions and burn a ton of clock. We don’t score as much as an air raid team

 

[CEB]

Difference between Pyron and King is King is a playmaker. Pyron does well when he just runs the play and he threw really well yesterday. Struggled a bit more when we were forced to be a bit more one dimensional.

King seems to have the ability to make a play out of nothing if the play breaks down. I'm not sure I saw Pyron capable of doing that and it allowed ND to really not have to worry about the QB scramble. The scrambles Pyron did have, I don't think he saw the field well.

What you say is not wrong, but what you describe is not a pyron vs King issue. It’s a reps / snaps issue.
Pyron is probably a few more starts away from the game “slowing down” and him really seeing the field. I agree…. it looked like we missed some reads and missed some running lanes Saturday. Live reps is the fix.

Interesting to me is that Pyron “saw” the middle of the field more than king has. I saw more straight drops and longer routes Saturday. I don’t know if King checks down quicker or if Zach missed pre-snap reads that would’ve been quick hitters if King were in. Maybe both?

I feel like ND learned a lot on our first long drive and went about giving an inexperienced QB some difficult looks to get us out of our comfort zone. In my opinion, Zach did a heck of a job playing a style that (at least so far) we haven’t really wanted to play. ND got us out of our “bread and butter” and we still moved the ball decently.

 

[g0lftime]

Major respect for his toughness, however, he bailed on his progressions way too quickly. We know what we have with XP, hope we give Philo a shot now that he would not burn a year.

Philo can play in 3 remaining games and keep his red shirt year. He already played in the VMI game. I doubt we see him at all because the remaining games will be competitive. He may play as the backup ID HK is still out and ZP has to come out of the game.

 

[Jacket20]

What you say is not wrong, but what you describe is not a pyron vs King issue. It’s a reps / snaps issue.
Pyron is probably a few more starts away from the game “slowing down” and him really seeing the field. I agree…. it looked like we missed some reads and missed some running lanes Saturday. Live reps is the fix.

Interesting to me is that Pyron “saw” the middle of the field more than king has. I saw more straight drops and longer routes Saturday. I don’t know if King checks down quicker or if Zach missed pre-snap reads that would’ve been quick hitters if King were in. Maybe both?

I feel like ND learned a lot on our first long drive and went about giving an inexperienced QB some difficult looks to get us out of our comfort zone. In my opinion, Zach did a heck of a job playing a style that (at least so far) we haven’t really wanted to play. ND got us out of our “bread and butter” and we still moved the ball decently.

I feel like Haynes has been hurt most of the year...probably more than we all know and that has affected his down field passing. We know he has the arm to make those passes but I don't believe he is capable physically. That's why we have seen so many screens and intermediate passes all season. Just my opinion.

 

[Jacket4Life]

Pyron is more then capable of leading us to a win next week. Im not worried about that. I am way more worried if Efford is out, and are special teams are as special as they have been the last couple of weeks.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I've intentionally stayed away from this thread since the game. I figured it would be full of strong opinions in either direction.

What I saw:

• Zach Pyron has a huge arm and can make all the throws. I'm pretty sure we already all knew that.
• Zach is tough as nails and not afraid of anything or any situation.
• Zach tried to put the offense on his shoulders and that may or may not have been the best thing to do (remains to be seen).
• Zach hasn't really played significant game-speed snaps in a couple of years and that showed.
  • He was late in many of his throws to the receivers, making sure they were open instead of anticipating them getting open.
  • Many of his throws did not lead the receiver, but were thrown at the receiver, limiting YAC (closely tied to the first bullet point)
  • Missed reads and fooled by disguised configurations.
• Zach tried to take what he was given and sometimes made the wrong reads on the RPO or RRO
• Zach is not as fast or as quick as King. Plays where HK was able to get to the edge and make positive yardage, Zach was chased down. Combination of good ND speed and a step slower.
• Zach does not have the wiggle King has. Plays up the middle where HK is able to shake a little and slip by the LB or DB for extra yardage didn't happen. Zach was met and stood up.
• Zach was probably not playing in the exact set of plays (the way they evolved rather than the actual alignment or call) he is best suited for.
• There seemed to be a rhythm and cadence difference between ZP and HK, which affects how the whole OL reacted. This probably was good for 2-3 false starts.

All this being said, I though Zach did an outstanding job for it being his first real 1st string action as a QB in almost 2 years. He will get better at all aspects of QB play as he gets more time behind center. I think having the QB of both the offense and the defense out for this game played a huge part in the outcome.

 

[RamblinRed]

I don’t know if our offense is designed around the run, but…

Against FSU we threw 16 passes for 146 yards and won. We ran for 36 rushes for 190 yards. Win

Ga State: 29 passes for 274 yards, 32 rushes for 274 yards. Win

Syracuse: 40 passes for 266 yards, 25 rushes for 112 yards. Loss

Louisville: 32 passes for 312 yards, 35 rushes for 105 yards. Loss

Duke: 32 passes for 167 yards, 48 rushes for 247 yards. Win

UNC: 23 passes for 134 yards, 48 rushes for 385 yards. Win

Notre Dame: 39 passes for 247 yards, 29 rushes for 64 yards. Loss

I think the Syracuse game showed a recipe: stifle the run and we lose. If we get 150 yards on the ground or thereabouts, we have a good shot at winning. It could be a coincidence, but I don’t think we have a backup plan for when the run isn’t working—at least, not in any games this year.

I’m not critical of Faulkner’s play calling—he seems to call a good game. I do think our passing offense needs to be strong enough to carry the offense, and it doesn’t seem to be.

Once the run got shut down, and it got shut down cold, Pyron was in a tough spot.

Overall, his numbers were pretty good. I think he would have needed a Doug Flutie game to win without a rushing attack.

It’s an offseason problem, but it looks like Faulkner needs to build up the passing game to the point it can carry the team, or make sure the run game is near impossible to shut down

Defense and special teams aren’t winning the game for us either, but that’s another story

Also, we aren’t a high tempo offense. When we win, we limit possessions and burn a ton of clock. We don’t score as much as an air raid team

I've looked into this before. 30 (actually 31) is basically the number of passes that is the break point. When we have thrown the ball more than that, we have lost almost every game.
Less than 32 and we win almost all the games.
Looking at FBS opponents since King became starting QB.
31 or less - 9-1, only loss is to UGA. (One game where we threw exactly 31 passes - Duke this year.)
32 or more - 1-8, only win is UVA (King was 23-30 in that game so it sorts of fits there, Pyron was 1-3).
Going back to the interim year doesn't change that much either. GT is 2-1 when throwing 31 or less, the loss is to FSU and we threw 31 exactly in that game. 2-3 throwing more than 31, wins against Duke and VT.
If our run game is held in check by the defense, then our passing game isn't really good enough to win by itself. It would be fair to note that this is a likely true statement for alot of college teams.

Ultimately GT wants to run the ball to open up the passing game, not the reverse.

I thought Zach performed quite well given the circumstances.
The difference in speed between him and King is noticeable. Both are able to run, but King is just faster and so in some of those small creases and holes he is able to get a bigger gain. He also is able to stretch farther to the sideline.
Given the quality of defense I thought Zach did an admirable job of reading the defense and making alot of good calls. There were some bad reads as well but that should be expected.

 

[Root4GT]

I don’t know if our offense is designed around the run, but…

Against FSU we threw 16 passes for 146 yards and won. We ran for 36 rushes for 190 yards. Win

Ga State: 29 passes for 274 yards, 32 rushes for 274 yards. Win

Syracuse: 40 passes for 266 yards, 25 rushes for 112 yards. Loss

Louisville: 32 passes for 312 yards, 35 rushes for 105 yards. Loss

Duke: 32 passes for 167 yards, 48 rushes for 247 yards. Win

UNC: 23 passes for 134 yards, 48 rushes for 385 yards. Win

Notre Dame: 39 passes for 247 yards, 29 rushes for 64 yards. Loss

I think the Syracuse game showed a recipe: stifle the run and we lose. If we get 150 yards on the ground or thereabouts, we have a good shot at winning. It could be a coincidence, but I don’t think we have a backup plan for when the run isn’t working—at least, not in any games this year.

I’m not critical of Faulkner’s play calling—he seems to call a good game. I do think our passing offense needs to be strong enough to carry the offense, and it doesn’t seem to be.

Once the run got shut down, and it got shut down cold, Pyron was in a tough spot.

Overall, his numbers were pretty good. I think he would have needed a Doug Flutie game to win without a rushing attack.

It’s an offseason problem, but it looks like Faulkner needs to build up the passing game to the point it can carry the team, or make sure the run game is near impossible to shut down

Defense and special teams aren’t winning the game for us either, but that’s another story

Good points. I am not sure Faulkner can build the run game not to get shut down against good run defenses. Our passing attack is struggling to get explosive plays this season. They make scoring much easier and help with the running game.

I've intentionally stayed away from this thread since the game. I figured it would be full of strong opinions in either direction.

What I saw:

• Zach Pyron has a huge arm and can make all the throws. I'm pretty sure we already all knew that.
• Zach is tough as nails and not afraid of anything or any situation.
• Zach tried to put the offense on his shoulders and that may or may not have been the best thing to do (remains to be seen).
• Zach hasn't really played significant game-speed snaps in a couple of years and that showed.
  • He was late in many of his throws to the receivers, making sure they were open instead of anticipating them getting open.
  • Many of his throws did not lead the receiver, but were thrown at the receiver, limiting YAC (closely tied to the first bullet point)
  • Missed reads and fooled by disguised configurations.
• Zach tried to take what he was given and sometimes made the wrong reads on the RPO or RRO
• Zach is not as fast or as quick as King. Plays where HK was able to get to the edge and make positive yardage, Zach was chased down. Combination of good ND speed and a step slower.
• Zach does not have the wiggle King has. Plays up the middle where HK is able to shake a little and slip by the LB or DB for extra yardage didn't happen. Zach was met and stood up.
• Zach was probably not playing in the exact set of plays (the way they evolved rather than the actual alignment or call) he is best suited for.
• There seemed to be a rhythm and cadence difference between ZP and HK, which affects how the whole OL reacted. This probably was good for 2-3 false starts.

All this being said, I though Zach did an outstanding job for it being his first real 1st string action as a QB in almost 2 years. He will get better at all aspects of QB play as he gets more time behind center. I think having the QB of both the offense and the defense out for this game played a huge part in the outcome.

Good post!

 

[GT_B]

I thought overall Zach played pretty well given the circumstances. First full start in 2 seasons, against a good defense and we could not run the ball.

He made some excellent throws throughout the game.

My only real gripe was I think there was a few runs where I think he had some more grass to run downhill and he tried to bounce it outside and it didn’t work out well.

I also said in the post game thread I think our WRs, and I like singleton and Rutherford, but watching them on routes sometimes look like we are not running the routes full speed. Just looks like some jogging and uncommitted routes out there. I think this is part of our problem getting separation, we don’t run crisp routes a lot of the time looking at the film.

 

[cpf2001]

I've looked into this before. 30 (actually 31) is basically the number of passes that is the break point. When we have thrown the ball more than that, we have lost almost every game.
Less than 32 and we win almost all the games.
Looking at FBS opponents since King became starting QB.
31 or less - 9-1, only loss is to UGA. (One game where we threw exactly 31 passes - Duke this year.)
32 or more - 1-8, only win is UVA (King was 23-30 in that game so it sorts of fits there, Pyron was 1-3).
Going back to the interim year doesn't change that much either. GT is 2-1 when throwing 31 or less, the loss is to FSU and we threw 31 exactly in that game. 2-3 throwing more than 31, wins against Duke and VT.
If our run game is held in check by the defense, then our passing game isn't really good enough to win by itself. It would be fair to note that this is a likely true statement for alot of college teams.

Ultimately GT wants to run the ball to open up the passing game, not the reverse.

I thought Zach performed quite well given the circumstances.
The difference in speed between him and King is noticeable. Both are able to run, but King is just faster and so in some of those small creases and holes he is able to get a bigger gain. He also is able to stretch farther to the sideline.
Given the quality of defense I thought Zach did an admirable job of reading the defense and making alot of good calls. There were some bad reads as well but that should be expected.

I don’t think those stats answer the causality question. If we’re passing more only when we have already fallen behind, but aren’t getting enough out of it to pull off the comeback, that’s very different from “what could we do if we emphasized it more all game.” We certainly wouldnt have had a better chance against Cuse, say, if we hadn’t started throwing more.

Why can’t our passing game be good enough to be option 1, and then we pound the run after teams have to adjust to the pass?

I don’t see anything in the metrics on our passing to suggest it could not be a good first option.

I see a lot that says it isn’t, and that our coaches don’t want it to be, but that it couldn’t?