UNC 2024 Post Game

[stinger78]

I'm trying to figure what the heyul changed. Defensive recognition is also light years better.

We certainly have bad moments and stretches, but hearing that we're top 11 or 13 in the nation in run defense is mind-boggling. Especially considering where we were in prior years.

Coa-ching: a. The art and science of helping another get better. b. Cheating; as in being coached to fall on the ground as if hurt. c. Actions that result superior performance; as in 25+ 1st downs, 500+ total yards in a game of football.

 

[684Bee]

Who was our Db that chased down their loose RB? That was a great hustle play and saved the TD.

The guy that usually returns punts. His name starts with an S, I believe.

 

[takethepoints]

I'm late to this; have a cold. What I thought while I watched the game with my son:

• I was all ready for overtime when Bazinga! Jamal deserves a lot of credit for the TD that won the game, but it was the OL that made the blocks. He ran by the second level and it wa all green grass from there. I was reminded of Roy Hobbs's home run in The Natural. Felt the same way too.

• I had been complaining about how Tech looked in the game; "Too conservative," said I. Then I suddenly realized what I was watching: it was a Paul game. Tech were running the ball consistently, eating the clock, keeping them off the field (best way to beat that team, imho), and scoring on almost every drive. Then we had some D and, especially, special teams mistakes that kept them in it, and then Tech won. And that "conservative" O? Well, 505 yards with 371 win the ground will do just fine. Those kinds of stats win games against talented opponents.

* I hope Haynes is ok. I see a lot of angst about Pyron. Well, if he has to go against ND, so be it. Tech needs to get King well. It'll be a different O with Pyron. He's not as fast or as slick as King. He's best in a straight line when he gets a hole. Oth, his arm is healthy and he has as good a deep ball as King does. I look for more of a Kansas State look for Tech if he's in. But if he can't make things work, there's Philo who can make any throw in the playbook and, I suspect, will have his bro Stockton out there with him. I think Pyron gets a chance first and I suspect he'll do. But let's hope for King. If he's out for a substantial time, Tech is in trouble.

• The D had a pretty good day. Stopping Hampton for a whole game is downright impossible; he might be the best RB i9n the country. And, sure enough, Tech didn't. He only broke one O run, however; you have to call that a decent day. Coverage improved again. It is obvious to me that the D is getting steadily better.

• Special teams … well, maybe not so much. Hampton was taking punts so I sorta expected that something bad would happen. It did. And I was distressed to see that Shanahan bobbled a punt; this doesn't usually happen. The again, he did get it off, kinda.

• Well, a decent performance against a very talented team that really should have been one of the toughest outs on our schedule. I look forward to ND now.

Update: It wasn't Hampton on that return, but he was just as effective.

 

[cpf2001]

Was that last punt a fumbled snap or a bad snap? I thought it went wide of Shanahan and he had to go collect it.

 

[billga99]

Honestly, the DL has been night and day compared to last year. Bowing up on short yardage is something they've done a lot of.

One thing we struggled with continues to be sacks. I checked on DL that we lost in the transfer portal. Kyle Kennard (SC) has 7.5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles. Ivy (Ole Miss) has 5 sacks. Of course if you take aggressive outside rushes, you are likely less impactful on rush plays. But I think losing starting veteran DL has to have some impact on our ability to be better on pass plays.

 

[Golden Tornadoes]

I have a pretty different view, and I feel like the coaches kept Haynes King in there too long while he was clearly injured and it was hampering his effectiveness with throwing the ball. Although, I will admit he did lead a drive with his legs after I was thinking the coaching staff was being stubborn for keeping him in.

But I still feel Pyron should have been given a chance earlier in the game with an open playbook. Not sure where all this uncertainty in Pyron’s ability to throw and run the offense comes from. Does anyone remember 2 years ago when Pyron started a couple game as a true freshman. From what I recall, The guy can throw the ball and is very accurate.

I’m confused why the coaching staff does not want to give him an open playbook in a game like today. That’s what had me the most frustrated today. I wonder if some it isn’t Key wanting to “stick to the identity” of being a hard nose power running team.

In the end, I’m glad we won. And 5-2 is a helluva lot better than 4-3. I’m done with getting upset about how GT wins because I feel like they should have won by more, or it didn’t look pretty, or because I question a coaching decision. I enjoy the win no matter what. I trust Key and the coaching staff, but I would like to know why we are so scared of letting Pyron play with an open playbook.

I don’t think it was the coaches not giving Pyron an open playbook at all. Each team comes into a game with a certain number of plays they have practiced each week. Each week has shown Pyron has a specific package tailored for him and I’m sure that’s what he spends his week practicing. I doubt his package during any of the weeks consisted of throwing the ball deep. He has all the tools needed to lead this team to wins, but I doubt the coaches wanted to put the pressure of calling plays he hadn’t practiced with 30 seconds left on the clock when they had a guaranteed OT. As @PVdad has pointed out numerous times on this board, the coaches view King and Pyron with the same skill set. The playbook won’t change just because Pyron is in instead of King. I just think that Pyron’s package was tailored to running the ball and has been all year. Give him a week of practice with taking number 1 snaps and I have very little to be worried about with him in instead of King. @PVdad feel free to correct me if I have misstated anything or am just flat out wrong.

 

[Golden Tornadoes]

One thing we struggled with continues to be sacks. I checked on DL that we lost in the transfer portal. Kyle Kennard (SC) has 7.5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles. Ivy (Ole Miss) has 5 sacks. Of course if you take aggressive outside rushes, you are likely less impactful on rush plays. But I think losing starting veteran DL has to have some impact on our ability to be better on pass plays.

Van De Berg had worked himself into having a huge game if he hadn’t been held almost every time he broke through the UNC line. Dude was pushing their guards and center deep into the pocket all game long despite getting held

 

[bke1984]

Anyone know what the hell Collins was doing with the walkie talkie? Was that a direct line to the juice crew?

 

[iceeater1969]

Amen to all you say brother. I doubt if Key would have his job now if Pyron hadn't played so well in 2022. And tried to play even after he broke his collar bone. I also would like to know why our brain trust of Weinke, Faulkner, and Key hasn't had a full package ready for their back to QB, especially when King has not looked anywhere close to where he looked last year. But I realize we will never know the realizing and trust this staff now and in the future. We are 5-2!
I did not enjoy this game at all. Like a lot of fans it was a revenge game for me, just like "62, and a must win for me. I only felt comfortable after Jamal's run of 68 yards with 16 seconds left. Though we didn't destroy UNC, we did shred Scooter's defense for 505 yards and 41 points, all with a dinged up QB. I am completely satisfied with the outcome and now plan to move on from Scoots since he has been confirmed to be a complete fraud as a P4 coach, at least in my mind.
Jamal, Malik the beast, and this entire team will live in my heart forever, right next to the team of '62. Thank you!

I don't remember when Coach Key said this. But something like we need to learn how to win before we can win consistently.

I think we are still in that transition of learning how to win and a lot of the fan base feels like we should already be there. (Me as well at times). After the FSU win I thought we were farther along than we were. If King can stay healthy, I still think we win 8 regular season games and the bowl game. Winning 3 of the next 5 will be tough but very doable. I like the trajectory of the defense combined with a good offense. But we could just as easily only win 1 more

I think the players are doing great at the most important thing to be a consistent winner. That thing is not turning over the ball. King is #2 in nation in int per play. Our rb and wr are up there in fewest fumbles lost. Blame the players for little mistakes but how bout the coaches admit being to quick to take foot of the gas.

The coach needs to acknowledge that punt returns are a crp shoot and fg cant be counted on.

Unc is a bottom dweller.

 

[patrickr21]

I don’t think it was the coaches not giving Pyron an open playbook at all. Each team comes into a game with a certain number of plays they have practiced each week. Each week has shown Pyron has a specific package tailored for him and I’m sure that’s what he spends his week practicing. I doubt his package during any of the weeks consisted of throwing the ball deep. He has all the tools needed to lead this team to wins, but I doubt the coaches wanted to put the pressure of calling plays he hadn’t practiced with 30 seconds left on the clock when they had a guaranteed OT. As @PVdad has pointed out numerous times on this board, the coaches view King and Pyron with the same skill set. The playbook won’t change just because Pyron is in instead of King. I just think that Pyron’s package was tailored to running the ball and has been all year. Give him a week of practice with taking number 1 snaps and I have very little to be worried about with him in instead of King. @PVdad feel free to correct me if I have misstated anything or am just flat out wrong.

Maybe you’re correct about his practice package, but this still doesn’t make sense to me. Like you said, everything communicated is that Pyron’s and King’s skill set are pretty interchangeable.

It would be foolish, in my view, to have your backup QB focus primarily on a package of plays that focus on running. What if your starter get knocked out early in the game? Or if he gets knocked out late in the game a your down by a TD. The backup needs to be ready to play effectively (ability to win the game) no matter what the situation. I THINK that is the same thing CBK would say.

I get not wanting to put the pressure on your backup QB in closing minutes of a tie game, but Pyron came in at the start of 3rd quarter. There was time to allow for a more open playbook. And again, it seemed apparent to me early in the game there was something off with HK’s throw. I don’t think his injury happened in this game. I think it was aggravated/made worse.

Ultimately, the coaches see the players at practice. And maybe a lame HK is more effective than a healthy ZP, but based on Pyron’s previous starts I have a hard time believing that.

I suspect that this might be more of a case of HK telling the coaches he is good to go cause that is type of tough mentality HK has. I also suspect CBK does not like deviating from the game plan unless absolutely necessary. That’s not a knock on Key; I think he places a big emphasis on calmness and control (not panicking). But I also think the coaches have a responsibility to HK and the rest of the team to know when his injured play is risking his health and a win.

 

[okiemon]

It was all beer either way.

Unless he drinks Miller or Bud, in which case it was p**s either way.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

On a different note, the CW has to seriously consider their options when they get a UNC game with Thom Brennaman calling the games. He is from Chapel Hill and both his parents are alums. He was not hiding his bias at all, which seemed to contribute to his defense of Collins since he’s now a Tarheel. That’s why IMO, he was saying things like “his guys are now having success” instead of giving the current coaches credit and ignoring how many key transfers and underclassmen we have right now who never played for Collins.

 

[Thwg777]

On a different note, the CW has to seriously consider their options when they get a UNC game with Thom Brennaman calling the games. He is from Chapel Hill and both his parents are alums. He was not hiding his bias at all, which seemed to contribute to his defense of Collins since he’s now a Tarheel. That’s why IMO, he was saying things like “his guys are now having success” instead of giving the current coaches credit and ignoring how many key transfers and underclassmen we have right now who never played for Collins.

Aside from just muting the TV since it’s an annoyance, defense of Collins by other holes is wonderful news. Collins’ results speak for themselves and if others see the ‘progress’ he’s selling, I hope he gets a contract extension and a promotion when Brown hangs it up.

 

[stech81]

Anyone know what the hell Collins was doing with the walkie talkie? Was that a direct line to the juice crew?

he was calling Todd Stansbury at NC state about a job.

 

[roadkill]

It would be foolish, in my view, to have your backup QB focus primarily on a package of plays that focus on running.

Agree. And I would be shocked if we did that.

Pyron came in at the start of 3rd quarter. There was time to allow for a more open playbook.

Huh? Pyron came in with only 11 minutes left in the game. Could he have come in sooner? Sure, but HK was responsible for two scoring drives in the second half.

Many factors go into play-calling – including but not limited to defensive alignments, playing with a lead vs. playing from behind, time left on the clock, timeouts remaining, expected drives remaining, and game flow and momentum. Also toward the end of a game, what types of plays have been successful and the perception of how tired the defense is. Under the circumstances, I don't have a problem with the plays that were called. If it had been in the first half, I might have felt differently.

maybe a lame HK is more effective than a healthy ZP, but based on Pyron’s previous starts I have a hard time believing that.

We've had quite a spirited discussion on this topic over in the Offensive Play-Calling thread.

 

[roadkill]

He was not hiding his bias at all

Yeah, it was bad. Perhaps my perspective is also biased, but he was absolutely fawning over "Hall of fame" Mack Brown on top of defending Collins.
The announcers also were quick to point out where we should have been called for penalties without ever mentioning the many times UNC should have been called. They also amplified our propensity to (possibly) be faking injuries without mentioning the times when UNC may have done it. I have no doubt that the attitude some of our fans have on this issue was influenced by them.

Edit to add: They announced Criswell as the Player of the Game before Jamal's game-sealing run. Oops.

 

[pinglett]

Was that last punt a fumbled snap or a bad snap? I thought it went wide of Shanahan and he had to go collect it.

Hit him in the hands, and he just bobbled/dropped it. Had to kick it kind of low and back to the right to avoid the block from the left. Really lucky.....

 

[yeti92]

I know you've all been anxiously awaiting my opinion for the last 22 pages so here it is.

Let's start with the good - we won, Geoff Collins lost, nananana booboo stick your head in doodoo. Jamal Haynes is healthy, and when Jamal Haynes is healthy he is a beast. 170 yds on 19 carries and 2 TDs! He outperformed Hampton, the star of UNC's offense. Add in King also going over 100 yds on the ground and Chad helping to very effectively spell Jamal, and we have a very dangerous backfield. OL played fairly well again. DL had their best game of the season, doing a good job of stopping UNC's rushing attack and putting pressure on Criswell - 3 sacks and a forced fumble is solid work. We won, we are now 5-2, and just 1 win from bowl eligibility.

Now for the not so good. Those commentators and refs should be tied to a rocket and fired into the sun, the bias was absurd. The constant highlighting of Geoff Collins was nauseating - newsflash, he sucks and is the major reason UNC lost. How the ref did not see Efford being blatantly held directly in front of his face on Hampton's one big run is ridiculous, he was wearing the ref cam and we could all see it. Beyond that, as good of a day as we had offensively, it could have been so much better. Remember, this is a TFG defense we were playing, and they were not good. King obviously was injured early on and struggled to throw medium and long passes all game. Singleton dropped a catchable ball, which has become somewhat common for him. Defensively, we regressed in the secondary, back to playing the receiver and paid for it in penalties and big completions. We were penalized a lot on both sides of the ball in general and at bad times, killing our own drives and extending theirs. We played horribly on special teams. We continue to be unable to mash the pedal and finish an opponent off. We are incredibly predictable in certain situations.

It feels like this team should be so much better than we are, and a lot of what it seems is holding us back is coaching/playcalling. We haven't really played a complete game since FSU, and after seven games into the season I'm wondering if we are going to. Under Key so far, we've dominated a P4 opponent by 3+ scores only once - UVA last season. I miss blowing the doors off an "equal" opponent or two most seasons like we did under CPJ, every game is still in doubt in the 4th quarter these days. I said in chat that I don't think Key will win any championships here - I hope I'm wrong, but right now that feels true. I don't feel like the coaching is improving. We are very Gailey-esque.

Question I guess for the mods on the subject of Chat - do people I have on ignore have their comments hidden as well if they are in chat? Because all the comments from people acting like chat is the most vile, horrific place on the planet make no sense to me, so either I'm not seeing those comments or they have no experience harsher than what you might hear at church league softball. I guarantee every single SEC, Big 10, NFL, NBA, and MLB fanbase has people saying stuff during/after games that makes our chat look like a cordial tea with the queen (RIP), and there are other GT message boards that are far worse as well.

eta: Faking injuries is really chicken****, unsportsmanlike, and teams need to be penalized for it. Hopefully there is a rule change after the season, but some of those were incredibly obvious.

 

[bobongo]

Hit him in the hands, and he just bobbled/dropped it. Had to kick it kind of low and back to the right to avoid the block from the left. Really lucky.....

Kind of lucky, but he made a quick recovery, and deftly got it out of there. Bottom line is a 32-yard punt with no return. Not great, but not a catastrophe.

 

[roadkill]

Under Key so far, we've dominated a P4 opponent by 3+ scores only once - UVA last season.

With a healthy King and unbiased refs, we win the game by 3 scores. Just sayin'.

I don't think Key will win any championships here

A little premature, perhaps? I mean, Key has been our permanent head coach for only 1 1/2 seasons. His win trajectory is upward and his recruiting is as well. You may be correct, but I'd give the guy a chance first.