Ted Roof's job

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,779
Ok, lets assume we should fire Ted. Who do we get? How do we afford him?

Please answer with who is the mid range of who you would "approve" and the cost to get him?
1 And we then we can discuss how to afford. Need to include the added cost of hire (new hire may require 2.
2 Then let's compare costs and benefits of doing other things to help roof. I like what west has done helping with ol, ditto waggoner on recruiting, tevin on sidelines, etc. Perhaps spending the $$ in like areas has additional benefits?
3 Roof recruited the swilling brothers and this makes replacing him moot.
4. In gsu game roof actually had several safety blitz in game. Dl line up in different sets and on several plays they did not just bull rush straight ahead. The whole line scraped in one direction. That's progress in confussing the opponent so why not wait. I am hopeful we add more tweaks to the D in the off week and he gets even more aggressive at hc.
 

Rock

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
615
Somebody explain to me how a different DC is gonna make our DL quicker, stronger and more explosive and not get owned at the LOS. Somebody enlighten me on how a new DC is gonna make our LB's and DB's faster and more fluid.

I need someone to explain to me how keeping Roof will do the exact same things.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,030
Somebody explain to me how a different DC is gonna make our DL quicker, stronger and more explosive and not get owned at the LOS. Somebody enlighten me on how a new DC is gonna make our LB's and DB's faster and more fluid.

Fwiw, this post is question-begging. Those who think the DC is the problem don't agree that the problem is the DL not being quick, strong or explosive enough nor the LBs and DBs being fast and fluid enough. They think it's a problem of scheme primarily.
 

sidewalkGTfan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,276
Somebody explain to me how a different DC is gonna make our DL quicker, stronger and more explosive and not get owned at the LOS. Somebody enlighten me on how a new DC is gonna make our LB's and DB's faster and more fluid.
Do we have enough talent on D to be great? Nope. Do we have enough talent on D to be quite a bit better than what we've shown? Absolutely. That's where a different DC comes in...
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Staff member
Messages
12,285
Location
Marietta, GA
Somebody explain to me how a different DC is gonna make our DL quicker, stronger and more explosive and not get owned at the LOS. Somebody enlighten me on how a new DC is gonna make our LB's and DB's faster and more fluid.
Well it's really simple, we just ...


.... Okay I have nothing.

Too many think that all that has to happen is have someone new come and say "hocus pocus" and we magically become a top 25 D.

Jimmies and Joes make it happen. Starting with The Line on both sides of the ball.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
He probably doesn't have more knowledge but just because someone understand football as roof does, it doesn't make them a good coach. Roof has had 4 years now and I haven't seen one thing that has been a consistent improvement my on our D, have you, and if so what?

The new guys we have playing on the Dline for starters.

I need someone to explain to me how keeping Roof will do the exact same things.

See above reply. I love every player on our team and appreciate what each one brings to the table. No doubt in my mind our biggest issue the last few years has been a lack of play makers across the line. One play maker per year does not suffice and that is pretty much what we have had.

Oddly enough I think we lack a real individual stud this year like we've had in the past...Sneezy, Gotsis. But across the line (LDE-RDE) I think we might be better across the board overall. I think by the time Henderson graduates we will have 4 playmakers across the line. With Glanton, Adams, and Henderson at the NG/DT spots I feel very good about our future on D. A stout Dline makes a whole world of difference with respect to the guys playing behind them.

Don't get me wrong, we aint done here. We have to continue to build on this for depth and future improvement. I think our gains in talent are significant. I think Roof has a lot to do with those gains. It will take another year or maybe two to bear fruit, and that is unfortunately a year or two too late for the patience of most fans.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Can't seem to locate the post now but someone previously said Roof was awful at Aubie then went on to state that their bad play on D continued until just recently. So I have a question. If Roof was the problem at Aubie....why did it take so long to get that side squared away again? (n) Shouldn't they have been immediately better once they rid themselves of Roof? Because apparently all any team needs for a top 20 D is the right DC. :cigar:
 

InsideLB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,915
[QUOTE="Whiskey_Clear, post: 257008, member: ] I think by the time Henderson graduates we will have 4 playmakers across the line. With Glanton, Adams, and Henderson at the NG/DT spots I feel very good about our future on D. A stout Dline makes a whole world of difference with respect to the guys playing behind them.

I think our gains in talent are significant. I think Roof has a lot to do with those gains. It will take another year or maybe two to bear fruit, and that is unfortunately a year or two too late for the patience of most fans.[/QUOTE]

4 star post. Docked you a star for forgetting St Amour who I think will develop and Woods who got hurt in preseason.

I can tell you after playing behind 1 all-american and 1 all-conference DT concurrently you can run wild as an LB. When those guys graduated it got MUCH more difficult.
 

Jmonty71

Banned
Messages
2,156
Please answer with who is the mid range of who you would "approve" and the cost to get him?
1 And we then we can discuss how to afford. Need to include the added cost of hire (new hire may require 2.
2 Then let's compare costs and benefits of doing other things to help roof. I like what west has done helping with ol, ditto waggoner on recruiting, tevin on sidelines, etc. Perhaps spending the $$ in like areas has additional benefits?
3 Roof recruited the swilling brothers and this makes replacing him moot.
4. In gsu game roof actually had several safety blitz in game. Dl line up in different sets and on several plays they did not just bull rush straight ahead. The whole line scraped in one direction. That's progress in confussing the opponent so why not wait. I am hopeful we add more tweaks to the D in the off week and he gets even more aggressive at hc.

Let's break this down.

To the one I know how to answer. #4. Yeah we blitzed, but it was a cluster F***K. People were running into each other's backs. You could tell that it was JUST worked on. It was ran very poor on the field. The LB's blitzed too. Yet, they were too busy running up the D lineman's back to notice. The CB blitz did surprise me. But, that was done, what? Once?? Yet, we allowed 13 of 20 on 3rd down for them? The issue is and has always remained.. Roof goes back into this soft zone, way too much. I was pleased to see us start the game in bump and run coverage. I could tell it surprised Ga Southern. I am willing to bet that he will go back to giving the WRs 10 yard cushions against Duke.

#3. I always stated to keep him as a recruiter. He can recruit, to a certain level. He's yet to bring a 5 star aboard, but doubtful that will happen, either.

#2. Cost benefits? Roof should be refined enough to not need help. He has assistant coaches for a reason. He needs to set goals for these coaches and if they don't meet them, find someone that can. Straight and simple.

#1. As for Roof's salary? I would expect better rankings in YPC. There are plenty of ways to gauge a defense. Overall points isn't the thing you look at. If our offense is doing what they need to, of course, the other team shouldn't score as often. Look deeper into this. We ranked in the 70s in the stats that matter most to people that truly understand defense. Why not bring up a young, up and coming DC? One that has a modern defensive scheme? Bring one from the FCS level. Chattanooga is close and they rank very well in defense in every category.
 

33jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,694
Location
Georgia
Somebody explain to me how a different DC is gonna make our DL quicker, stronger and more explosive and not get owned at the LOS. Somebody enlighten me on how a new DC is gonna make our LB's and DB's faster and more fluid.

Cheese u are the type of person that only hears what they want to hear sometimes. So i will type this again.

If we have our DL assign a gap for penetration only, vs catch and hold. You will quickly see how much better they look disrupting gaps vs holding onto OL so the Lb can clean up.

Let me try again. Some DC prefer their Dl hold a lane and tie up OL. Roof. Groh. This can be done in both 1 and 2 gap assignments. This philosophy was confirmed and proved via comments by our lb in ajc articles this year as to the role of the dl in this scheme. The tape doesnt lie either. This concept is supposed to be friendly for your Lb. You can call it LB centric. In the system DL doesnt get many tfl or many sacks. It all goes to the lb. and it makes your dl look slow. Sluggish. Like pillow fighters. But your Lb and dropped down S get a ton of tackles. When your Lb miss, then they look really bad and exposed. Sound familiar? It looks and is really soft but really Lb friendly. Hmmm i wonder why ted likes this style? A funny note though. This technique is great against the screen game. Yet we struggle there. So that is either on the players or lb coaching.

Now. There is another DC philosophy where each dl each play is assigned a gap for penetration. The gaps not assigned are then assigned to the Lb and maybe S. Note. This may not be EVERY play. But its alot of them. And at snap. The sole objective of the Dl is to hit that gap as hard as he can to disrupt (not worry about tieing up a specific Ol position) It may only be 2 dl that do it one play. It may be 3. Or all 4. The idea is to get the Ol to react fast to that leaving lanes open for blitzing lbs or expose blocking schemes that give the d favorable mismatches. Again. How this is done play to play changes on the play. But no doubt the dl in this scheme has one objective. Come off the ball hard and fast to you assigned gap and blow it up. Force a double team etc. force the rb to spill sideways from the los. In this scheme it is critical to maintain that lane or fit. And often you will see a DL upfield running right by the ball carrier on a counter because he was trying to destroy his gap and as a fan you go wtf. But this scheme allows your dl to have more tfl. More tackles. However. It requires more from your lB and they usually have 1 of the 3 lb always assigned to taking on a ol block vs the dl trying to tie up so the lb are free to roam.

Do u get it now? How a dc philosophy on the line can help who you have on the line appear to be more explosive and strong at snap vs pillow fight and dance? Too often people like to call this a one gap d; and it is. But its attacking that gap vs holding the ol.

Each philosophy can work. Both are tried and true. The former is way more common in nfl (heavy screen game alot of dl talent) Especially for dts and sde. The latter is attacking and aggressive and can leave a backend exposed. Its why tenuta was almost always in cover 3. But its nice because it allows a team to have leaner dl for penetration of gaps and doesnt require a dl to purely win head up on the ol each play.

Which is why it fits tech better. And its why a dl can look alot better on tape. With the SAME personnel. Now will it mean we are top 15 d all of a sudden. No. but imo our 3rd down get better and we go from number 70 d to top 45 or so with our talent.

This is why coaches, coaching and scheme matter.
 

33jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,694
Location
Georgia
Guys. If you watch the tape. Our secondary is in quarters around 50 to 60 percent of the time.

We dont just play quarters we play it 8-15 off.

It doesnt have to come from me. Go google what quarters d is. What its used for typically and when. What its weaknesses are and what its strengths are.

Then determine if it sounds familiar or not. I am sure you can find the concepts online.

And without me saying much, figure out if u like the style or not.

For me i hate it. The only time i put my d in quarters is hail marry or 3rd and 30.

I have seen it not work here for 4 years. While i have seen other concepts here work a ton better. So same school.

Vs ga southern ted finally was dropping a S in a 3 deep look more. It looked alot better. But its a flash in the pan. He still asks his dl to do things that are eh.
 

Jmonty71

Banned
Messages
2,156
Cheese u are the type of person that only hears what they want to hear sometimes. So i will type this again.

If we have our DL assign a gap for penetration only, vs catch and hold. You will quickly see how much better they look disrupting gaps vs holding onto OL so the Lb can clean up.

Let me try again. Some DC prefer their Dl hold a lane and tie up OL. Roof. Groh. This can be done in both 1 and 2 gap assignments. This philosophy was confirmed and proved via comments by our lb in ajc articles this year as to the role of the dl in this scheme. The tape doesnt lie either. This concept is supposed to be friendly for your Lb. You can call it LB centric. In the system DL doesnt get many tfl or many sacks. It all goes to the lb. and it makes your dl look slow. Sluggish. Like pillow fighters. But your Lb and dropped down S get a ton of tackles. When your Lb miss, then they look really bad and exposed. Sound familiar? It looks and is really soft but really Lb friendly. Hmmm i wonder why ted likes this style? A funny note though. This technique is great against the screen game. Yet we struggle there. So that is either on the players or lb coaching.

Now. There is another DC philosophy where each dl each play is assigned a gap for penetration. The gaps not assigned are then assigned to the Lb and maybe S. Note. This may not be EVERY play. But its alot of them. And at snap. The sole objective of the Dl is to hit that gap as hard as he can to disrupt (not worry about tieing up a specific Ol position) It may only be 2 dl that do it one play. It may be 3. Or all 4. The idea is to get the Ol to react fast to that leaving lanes open for blitzing lbs or expose blocking schemes that give the d favorable mismatches. Again. How this is done play to play changes on the play. But no doubt the dl in this scheme has one objective. Come off the ball hard and fast to you assigned gap and blow it up. Force a double team etc. force the rb to spill sideways from the los. In this scheme it is critical to maintain that lane or fit. And often you will see a DL upfield running right by the ball carrier on a counter because he was trying to destroy his gap and as a fan you go wtf. But this scheme allows your dl to have more tfl. More tackles. However. It requires more from your lB and they usually have 1 of the 3 lb always assigned to taking on a ol block vs the dl trying to tie up so the lb are free to roam.

Do u get it now? How a dc philosophy on the line can help who you have on the line appear to be more explosive and strong at snap vs pillow fight and dance? Too often people like to call this a one gap d; and it is. But its attacking that gap vs holding the ol.

Each philosophy can work. Both are tried and true. The former is way more common in nfl (heavy screen game alot of dl talent) Especially for dts and sde. The latter is attacking and aggressive and can leave a backend exposed. Its why tenuta was almost always in cover 3. But its nice because it allows a team to have leaner dl for penetration of gaps and doesnt require a dl to purely win head up on the ol each play.

Which is why it fits tech better. And its why a dl can look alot better on tape. With the SAME personnel. Now will it mean we are top 15 d all of a sudden. No. but imo our 3rd down get better and we go from number 70 d to top 45 or so with our talent.

This is why coaches, coaching and scheme matter.

Finally someone else that understands defense. Spot on.... It depends on how you run it. The blocking to gap scheme controls what the LB's should be doing. At least as an overall scheme. My issue is, the 2 do not seem to be on the same page. This falls on the DC, as an overall unit.
 

tech_wreck47

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,670
Cheese u are the type of person that only hears what they want to hear sometimes. So i will type this again.

If we have our DL assign a gap for penetration only, vs catch and hold. You will quickly see how much better they look disrupting gaps vs holding onto OL so the Lb can clean up.

Let me try again. Some DC prefer their Dl hold a lane and tie up OL. Roof. Groh. This can be done in both 1 and 2 gap assignments. This philosophy was confirmed and proved via comments by our lb in ajc articles this year as to the role of the dl in this scheme. The tape doesnt lie either. This concept is supposed to be friendly for your Lb. You can call it LB centric. In the system DL doesnt get many tfl or many sacks. It all goes to the lb. and it makes your dl look slow. Sluggish. Like pillow fighters. But your Lb and dropped down S get a ton of tackles. When your Lb miss, then they look really bad and exposed. Sound familiar? It looks and is really soft but really Lb friendly. Hmmm i wonder why ted likes this style? A funny note though. This technique is great against the screen game. Yet we struggle there. So that is either on the players or lb coaching.

Now. There is another DC philosophy where each dl each play is assigned a gap for penetration. The gaps not assigned are then assigned to the Lb and maybe S. Note. This may not be EVERY play. But its alot of them. And at snap. The sole objective of the Dl is to hit that gap as hard as he can to disrupt (not worry about tieing up a specific Ol position) It may only be 2 dl that do it one play. It may be 3. Or all 4. The idea is to get the Ol to react fast to that leaving lanes open for blitzing lbs or expose blocking schemes that give the d favorable mismatches. Again. How this is done play to play changes on the play. But no doubt the dl in this scheme has one objective. Come off the ball hard and fast to you assigned gap and blow it up. Force a double team etc. force the rb to spill sideways from the los. In this scheme it is critical to maintain that lane or fit. And often you will see a DL upfield running right by the ball carrier on a counter because he was trying to destroy his gap and as a fan you go wtf. But this scheme allows your dl to have more tfl. More tackles. However. It requires more from your lB and they usually have 1 of the 3 lb always assigned to taking on a ol block vs the dl trying to tie up so the lb are free to roam.

Do u get it now? How a dc philosophy on the line can help who you have on the line appear to be more explosive and strong at snap vs pillow fight and dance? Too often people like to call this a one gap d; and it is. But its attacking that gap vs holding the ol.

Each philosophy can work. Both are tried and true. The former is way more common in nfl (heavy screen game alot of dl talent) Especially for dts and sde. The latter is attacking and aggressive and can leave a backend exposed. Its why tenuta was almost always in cover 3. But its nice because it allows a team to have leaner dl for penetration of gaps and doesnt require a dl to purely win head up on the ol each play.

Which is why it fits tech better. And its why a dl can look alot better on tape. With the SAME personnel. Now will it mean we are top 15 d all of a sudden. No. but imo our 3rd down get better and we go from number 70 d to top 45 or so with our talent.

This is why coaches, coaching and scheme matter.
I've been seeing this for a while and have had conversations about it but never taken the time to type this up so I'm glad you do so others can hopefully understand, because it's really not that hard of a concept.
 

jandrews

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
275
Our DL was never suited for a 2 gap system. We just aren't athletic enough on the DL to make plays. We play the straight ahead runs well but the outside speed/jet sweeps are difficult for our DL to make plays. I liked what I saw from the D against Southern. What I see more often is our DL and LBs can't get off blocks. I don't recall the last time I saw a DL engage an OL and use multiple moves in order to make a sack. A majority of the time it has been bull rushes from the DTs and speed rushes from the ends. We have better young talent on the DL but due to the inexperience our coaches are very hesitant to play them a lot. Groh really set us back on the DL but it is improving talent wise.
 

RamblinCharger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,541
Location
Alabama
Can't seem to locate the post now but someone previously said Roof was awful at Aubie then went on to state that their bad play on D continued until just recently. So I have a question. If Roof was the problem at Aubie....why did it take so long to get that side squared away again? (n) Shouldn't they have been immediately better once they rid themselves of Roof? Because apparently all any team needs for a top 20 D is the right DC. :cigar:

They hired Brian Van Gorder (terrible) then Ellis Johnson (Old but eh) and then had 1 year of Muschamp where they saw some improvement until this year where they have really turned it around with Kevin Steele. Obviously Talent has never been the issue at Auburn, so what else could it be besides coaching?
 

PBR549

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
837
Cheese u are the type of person that only hears what they want to hear sometimes. So i will type this again.

If we have our DL assign a gap for penetration only, vs catch and hold. You will quickly see how much better they look disrupting gaps vs holding onto OL so the Lb can clean up.

Let me try again. Some DC prefer their Dl hold a lane and tie up OL. Roof. Groh. This can be done in both 1 and 2 gap assignments. This philosophy was confirmed and proved via comments by our lb in ajc articles this year as to the role of the dl in this scheme. The tape doesnt lie either. This concept is supposed to be friendly for your Lb. You can call it LB centric. In the system DL doesnt get many tfl or many sacks. It all goes to the lb. and it makes your dl look slow. Sluggish. Like pillow fighters. But your Lb and dropped down S get a ton of tackles. When your Lb miss, then they look really bad and exposed. Sound familiar? It looks and is really soft but really Lb friendly. Hmmm i wonder why ted likes this style? A funny note though. This technique is great against the screen game. Yet we struggle there. So that is either on the players or lb coaching.

Now. There is another DC philosophy where each dl each play is assigned a gap for penetration. The gaps not assigned are then assigned to the Lb and maybe S. Note. This may not be EVERY play. But its alot of them. And at snap. The sole objective of the Dl is to hit that gap as hard as he can to disrupt (not worry about tieing up a specific Ol position) It may only be 2 dl that do it one play. It may be 3. Or all 4. The idea is to get the Ol to react fast to that leaving lanes open for blitzing lbs or expose blocking schemes that give the d favorable mismatches. Again. How this is done play to play changes on the play. But no doubt the dl in this scheme has one objective. Come off the ball hard and fast to you assigned gap and blow it up. Force a double team etc. force the rb to spill sideways from the los. In this scheme it is critical to maintain that lane or fit. And often you will see a DL upfield running right by the ball carrier on a counter because he was trying to destroy his gap and as a fan you go wtf. But this scheme allows your dl to have more tfl. More tackles. However. It requires more from your lB and they usually have 1 of the 3 lb always assigned to taking on a ol block vs the dl trying to tie up so the lb are free to roam.

Do u get it now? How a dc philosophy on the line can help who you have on the line appear to be more explosive and strong at snap vs pillow fight and dance? Too often people like to call this a one gap d; and it is. But its attacking that gap vs holding the ol.

Each philosophy can work. Both are tried and true. The former is way more common in nfl (heavy screen game alot of dl talent) Especially for dts and sde. The latter is attacking and aggressive and can leave a backend exposed. Its why tenuta was almost always in cover 3. But its nice because it allows a team to have leaner dl for penetration of gaps and doesnt require a dl to purely win head up on the ol each play.

Which is why it fits tech better. And its why a dl can look alot better on tape. With the SAME personnel. Now will it mean we are top 15 d all of a sudden. No. but imo our 3rd down get better and we go from number 70 d to top 45 or so with our talent.

This is why coaches, coaching and scheme matter.
Both and other schemes require better players than we have at this time. We can shoot gaps and play 3 deep and we'll give up 50 a game. I'm not saying I wouldn't rather have that type of scheme but you better have the players to do it and we don't. If you zone blitz you have to have D linemen who can drop in coverage and we're young and just trying to be sound. You have to have linebacker's and D B's who can play in space and we don't.

You have knowledge of scheme from a player's perspective. From the coaching side what you say is just words. Roof understands this side of the equation and has for many years. Can we get those type of players where we can crush people defensively on a consistent basis? Probably not if you look at history. Something would have to change besides the coach.

If Roof is fired he will go on to his next job and be successful. He has recruited some good young defenders here so we might get a couple of years of decent defenses with a new coordinator then the level of players we will get from recruiting will diminish because the new coach will not understand the situation at Tech the way Ted does. CPJ will not make it past that for sure and he knows it.
 
Top