Ted Roof's job

[MWBATL]

I don't know whether Roof should stay or go as I have read the various arguments in this thread and find some merit on both sides.

It seems inarguable that our defense is poor and those who defend it as being average simply are being obtuse, I fear.

However, there is something to the argument that we have a ton of young developing talent along the DL who should make us much better in the next couple of years.And Roof did bring in that talent.

My one wish is that we simply changed two things....make our defense more confusing and less vanilla. This does NOT mean a ton of blitzing....necessarily. Blitzing is situational. Duke, for example, with its dink and dunk approach, should probably see less blitzing. BUT we should still try to hide our scheme pre snap, bump around to hide our intentions etc. We rarely do that. I also wish guys like Adams got more playing time. I think they could help out more and we have already burned his shirt, so why not? Let's play for the future since we know we will suck defensively this year anyway. That we don't do those things make me doubt Roof's long term suitability. But I remain undecided. Not that my vote counts.

 

[jandrews]

When he got here we had Euclid Cummings, Emmanuel Dieke, JA and Gotsis who all made the NFL. People complained about a lack of talent on DL in 2013 too.

Not trying to put down Dieke and Cummings but they both were practice squad members and never made an active roster in the NFL. Antonio Simmons has better stats this season than Dieke had all of 2013. i hope all our DL make NFL rosters but those guys were also seniors in 2013 with no one really behind them that was developed. Our talent level right now is a lot better than it was in 2013 minus the JA45 and Gotsis. We actually have a little depth.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Let me ask you...when Roof took over as the DC...which players did he have that are better than what he has recruited. Our DL talent and depth at the DL was really low. We had JA45 and Gotsis. Gamble was playing DE when he is more suited as a DT. We had no depth at the DL for 2014 and 2015. Tech very rarely gets a DL that is ready from the first day he steps on campus. Once our DL is filled with Jrs and Srs across the board similar to evenly matched teams (like Pitt), I'm more than willing to sit and wait for our players to develop. We even had to play young guys just do to the lack of depth when they need time in the program to get bigger and stronger. We face only really one more dynamic offense (UNC) and one that is hot and cold (VPISU). I'll wait to judge the stats after the season is complete. Our next recruiting class we have been going hard at bringing in talented secondary players.

Jeremiah attaochu, Isaiah Johnson, Adam Gotsis, Quayshan mealy, Euclid Cummings, Emmanuel dieke, DJ white, Chris Milton, Jemea Thomas, Jamal golden. These guys were more productive than the guys roof has recruited that are upset classmen, so I don't get your point? I'm not trying to argue I just don't get what you are trying to get at. I don't see on our current roster this many guys on D that have produced like these others, even in their earlier years.

 

[jandrews]

Jeremiah attaochu, Isaiah Johnson, Adam Gotsis, Quayshan mealy, Euclid Cummings, Emmanuel dieke, DJ white, Chris Milton, Jemea Thomas, Jamal golden. These guys were more productive than the guys roof has recruited that are upset classmen, so I don't get your point? I'm not trying to argue I just don't get what you are trying to get at. I don't see on our current roster this many guys on D that have produced like these others, even in their earlier years.

I was just referencing the DL. Like i just said Cummings and Dieke statistically aren't much better than a soph in KCH and a junior in Simmons. What we are missing is the top end DL. Gamble is doing great work but Freeman has struggled this year. Also, Dieke and Cummings were seniors that year. I was never a D1 player but from my freshman year to my senior year I had a drastic amount more of strength. Our secondary talent has stepped back a little but thats because they aren't making plays. DJ White and Thomas played the ball great and had excellent hands. I never relaly mentioned them because they haven't performed great this year and thats why I stated the coaches went after hard for some DB talent and got commitments. My main point as stated before is our depth at DL has drastically improved. Look at 2013 . We had Kitchens backing up Gotsis and Kallon backing up Cummings. In his soph year KCH has already taken over for a Sr Kallon. In 2013 we could hardly rotate guys without taking a huge step back in talent level. Now at least I see a rotation to keep guys fresh.

 

[AE 87]

Not trying to put down Dieke and Cummings but they both were practice squad members and never made an active roster in the NFL. Antonio Simmons has better stats this season than Dieke had all of 2013. i hope all our DL make NFL rosters but those guys were also seniors in 2013 with no one really behind them that was developed. Our talent level right now is a lot better than it was in 2013 minus the JA45 and Gotsis. We actually have a little depth.

I agree that if the standard is a fiat from you on who is talented and who is not, then you're not wrong. However, there are a lot of DL that don't make it to an NFL camp let alone a contract during the season. So, by this external measure, Dieke and Cummings had some talent.

Now, of course, stats reflect not just talent but how talent is being used. However, that's part of the issue being discussed, whether Roof getting the most out of his available talent.

When you have to say, making it an NFL camp, an NFL practice squad, an NFL roster is not sufficient evidence of talent, and that the statistics don't tell the whole story, after a while, you have to ask whether confidence in Roof is more a matter of faith than reason.

 

[jandrews]

I agree that if the standard is a fiat from you on who is talented and who is not, then you're not wrong. However, there are a lot of DL that don't make it to an NFL camp let alone a contract during the season. So, by this external measure, Dieke and Cummings had some talent.

Now, of course, stats reflect not just talent but how talent is being used. However, that's part of the issue being discussed, whether Roof getting the most out of his available talent.

When you have to say, making it an NFL camp, an NFL practice squad, an NFL roster is not sufficient evidence of talent, and that the statistics don't tell the whole story, after a while, you have to ask whether confidence in Roof is more a matter of faith than reason.

Like i said I'm not trying to say they weren't talented. clearly they were, they started at GT.

I agree with you on how the talent is being used but at the same time I was comparing 2013 stats which Roof was the coordinator. Similar schemes from then to now. I'm just saying that when these guys are seniors I am curious how they will play. I bring up Antonio Simmons numbers but he is splitting time right now. Next year should be all him I would imagine.

I disagree about making it to a camp or roster. A lot of times the NFL is willing to take on a player who has the measurables but maybe not the skill set. (I.E. Dieke and if you remmeber Lawrence Okoye (discus thrower)). Okoye never played a down of football but the 49ers saw his measurables and tried to develop him through the practice squad. I just always take the practice squad roster as the minor leagues. indicates you have talent but at the same time maybe not enough to make it to the big leagues and they want to evaluate you for a little bit longer to see how you develop.

We will have to wait and see how Roof's guys develop. Next year will be the first year that the DL will be his guys. 2013s class was hardly influenced by him there was only a month and the DL in that class are all gone. Put is behind a year right there. 2014 was really the first step to building depth. IMO, Roof has finally stopped the ripple effect from Groh's DC years. We really had no depth on the DL.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

The issue with CTR and inherited DL is this: CAG ran a 3-4. CTR runs a 4-3/4-2-5 D. We had a DL shortage both on raw numbers (depth) and style of play. IMO, it was unreasonable to expect quick results from the DL since change in scheme didn't match the personnel. But instead, we just blame the coach. This is why I would like to give CTR another year or two and see how his DL prospects develop. Early indications are that Adams might be a beast in the making, and KCH looks good as well.

 

[jandrews]

The issue with CTR and inherited DL is this: CAG ran a 3-4. CTR runs a 4-3/4-2-5 D. We had a DL shortage both on raw numbers (depth) and style of play. IMO, it was unreasonable to expect quick results from the DL since change in scheme didn't match the personnel. But instead, we just blame the coach. This is why I would like to give CTR another year or two and see how his DL prospects develop. Early indications are that Adams might be a beast in the making, and KCH looks good as well.

This! A lot of fans want Instant gratification but unfortunately it takes time to develop players.

 

[tech_wreck47]

I was just referencing the DL. Like i just said Cummings and Dieke statistically aren't much better than a soph in KCH and a junior in Simmons. What we are missing is the top end DL. Gamble is doing great work but Freeman has struggled this year. Also, Dieke and Cummings were seniors that year. I was never a D1 player but from my freshman year to my senior year I had a drastic amount more of strength. Our secondary talent has stepped back a little but thats because they aren't making plays. DJ White and Thomas played the ball great and had excellent hands. I never relaly mentioned them because they haven't performed great this year and thats why I stated the coaches went after hard for some DB talent and got commitments. My main point as stated before is our depth at DL has drastically improved. Look at 2013 . We had Kitchens backing up Gotsis and Kallon backing up Cummings. In his soph year KCH has already taken over for a Sr Kallon. In 2013 we could hardly rotate guys without taking a huge step back in talent level. Now at least I see a rotation to keep guys fresh.

I see what you are saying, and I agree. If we had a stout D line it would make the LB's, and DB's look way better and cause more turnovers imo.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

This! A lot of fans want Instant gratification but unfortunately it takes time to develop players.

How much time? Nine years seems like long enough.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

How much time? Nine years seems like long enough.

CTR has only been here 3 1/2 years. Not nine.

 

[InsideLB]

Well, you can wait and see... I'll just sit back and watch it unfold. Do note... I WILL let everyone know how right, I am, when Roof fails over and over. Roof is NOT the answer. But, you St Roof lovers, just keep on drinking the Kool Aid. Just like Jim Jones... I think I'll stop posting on here. Here's a stat that really sums up our defense.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef

Ranked 100. But, keep on thinking how great Roof is. How long does he get passes?? 5 years, 10 years?? Whatever.

Merely in favor of seeing what the D looks like when the DL Roof recruited are mature. 2-3 year proposition max. Said dump the guy if it doesn't work out.

Could be wrong for sure. Will be FIRST in line to own up if I am wrong.

D is frustrating as hell to watch right now. Frustration breeds some heated posting. We are all passionate fanatics and want what (we think) is best for the team. In my passion, I have been a complete **** on this board before. I will be a complete **** again. It's possible I am unwittingly being a complete **** right now.

Don't let dicks like me get you down. Take a break if needed, but keep a postin'. And above all keep pulling for the Yellow Jackets!

 

[33jacket]

Merely in favor of seeing what the D looks like when the DL Roof recruited are mature. 2-3 year proposition max. Said dump the guy if it doesn't work out.

Could be wrong for sure. Will be FIRST in line to own up if I am wrong.

D is frustrating as hell to watch right now. Frustration breeds some heated posting. We are all passionate fanatics and want what (we think) is best for the team. In my passion, I have been a complete **** on this board before. I will be a complete **** again. It's possible I am unwittingly being a complete **** right now.

Don't let dicks like me get you down. Take a break if needed, but keep a postin'. And above all keep pulling for the Yellow Jackets!

So I am confused a bit. This is Roofs 4th year...so aren't his recruits the guys on the field? Or am I missing something? Does he need 6-7 years for his recruits to be on the field at tech?

The austin twins, corey griffin, 2 of the 3 LB's, Step Durham, AJ Gray, Freeman, etc are all roof recruits....

so what am I missing?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

The austin twins, corey griffin, 2 of the 3 LB's, Step Durham, AJ Gray, Freeman, etc are all roof recruits....

so what am I missing?

That only one of these players is a DL. That DL, BTW, was a Freshman All-American.

DL generally take time to develop. It's not an overnight process unless you are getting 5* or very high 4* recruits. We are just now starting to see some of CTRs DL get play time. As I said, Adams and KCH look promising.

IMO, our secondary is actually pretty good. Most of our issues there come from the lack of a pass rush from the DL.

 

[jandrews]

So I am confused a bit. This is Roofs 4th year...so aren't his recruits the guys on the field? Or am I missing something? Does he need 6-7 years for his recruits to be on the field at tech?

The austin twins, corey griffin, 2 of the 3 LB's, Step Durham, AJ Gray, Freeman, etc are all roof recruits....

so what am I missing?

You are right. It's his 4th year but he wasn't hired until January of 2013 and really didn't have much influence on that first class. His first big class that he would of had some influence on is 14. Next year will be when I feel comfortable being more critical of his recruiting and having his players in the lineup. I expect our DL to be better upfront but only time will tell. We should have 2 senior DE and a better rotation at the DT spot.

 

[jandrews]

That only one of these players is a DL. That DL, BTW, was a Freshman All-American.

DL generally take time to develop. It's not an overnight process unless you are getting 5* or very high 4* recruits. We are just now starting to see some of CTRs DL get play time. As I said, Adams and KCH look promising.

IMO, our secondary is actually pretty good. Most of our issues there come from the lack of a pass rush from the DL.

Agreed. If you look at the top teams they all have talented DL. Tech unfortunately has had a hard time getting 4* talent on the DL. I would much rather have a line that is junior and seniors across the board that are all 3* talent. I always look at Pitts roster. There DL and defense in general is heavy in upperclassmen. We can talk about the 1-8 type players again but we really are lacking on getting pressure on the qb. Even if we can just get them to have to move there feet more or disrupt there timing would be a huge help.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

That only one of these players is a DL. That DL, BTW, was a Freshman All-American.

DL generally take time to develop. It's not an overnight process unless you are getting 5* or very high 4* recruits. We are just now starting to see some of CTRs DL get play time. As I said, Adams and KCH look promising.

IMO, our secondary is actually pretty good. Most of our issues there come from the lack of a pass rush from the DL.

Still way too much of a cushion given by the secondary on receivers. I would rather risk an interference call than to automatically give up a pass, often for long yards.

 

[kg01]

Still way too much of a cushion given by the secondary on receivers. I would rather risk an interference call than to automatically give up a pass, often for long yards.

It's not like we're totally avoiding PI's anyways. I also would like to sign up for pressure rather than bend-and *er*-don't break defense. I'll trade a big play or two for the chance that we actually ya know, force a turnover maybe one time.

 

[AE 87]

The issue with CTR and inherited DL is this: CAG ran a 3-4. CTR runs a 4-3/4-2-5 D. We had a DL shortage both on raw numbers (depth) and style of play. IMO, it was unreasonable to expect quick results from the DL since change in scheme didn't match the personnel. But instead, we just blame the coach. This is why I would like to give CTR another year or two and see how his DL prospects develop. Early indications are that Adams might be a beast in the making, and KCH looks good as well.

Where's the rule that says Roof couldn't use a 3-4 scheme more if his players fit that better? He does use it some, so it's not like he doesn't know how. This concept is one that irks me, and I don't claim expertise knowledge of defense. If you look at our 2014 games against CU and georgie, you'll see that we played a lot of snaps in a 3-4 and it seems like those were two of our best defensive games that year.

 

[AE 87]

Jeremiah attaochu, Isaiah Johnson, Adam Gotsis, Quayshan mealy, Euclid Cummings, Emmanuel dieke, DJ white, Chris Milton, Jemea Thomas, Jamal golden. These guys were more productive than the guys roof has recruited that are upset classmen, so I don't get your point? I'm not trying to argue I just don't get what you are trying to get at. I don't see on our current roster this many guys on D that have produced like these others, even in their earlier years.

I was just referencing the DL. Like i just said Cummings and Dieke statistically aren't much better than a soph in KCH and a junior in Simmons. What we are missing is the top end DL. Gamble is doing great work but Freeman has struggled this year. Also, Dieke and Cummings were seniors that year. I was never a D1 player but from my freshman year to my senior year I had a drastic amount more of strength. Our secondary talent has stepped back a little but thats because they aren't making plays. DJ White and Thomas played the ball great and had excellent hands. I never relaly mentioned them because they haven't performed great this year and thats why I stated the coaches went after hard for some DB talent and got commitments. My main point as stated before is our depth at DL has drastically improved. Look at 2013 . We had Kitchens backing up Gotsis and Kallon backing up Cummings. In his soph year KCH has already taken over for a Sr Kallon. In 2013 we could hardly rotate guys without taking a huge step back in talent level. Now at least I see a rotation to keep guys fresh.

It's true that you were only talking about the DL, but he's making a bigger point, iiuc. I think the point that you're missing is that we've had a lot more guys make it in some degree at the next level from D than from our O since 2013, and our D hasn't been nearly as efficient (except for when our O was pretty bad in 2015). I suspect, that we'll find some of the guys on our D roster now being next-level surprises too.