Ted Roof earns redemption!

[Augusta_Jacket]

People think I'm bashing roof but I have said that if he had better talent his scheme would work perfectly fine, and that he can coach. Idk where people think I'm bashing and hating on him because I have an opinion that we should run a different scheme.

Sadly, I think you are getting lumped in with a few of the other "Roof bashers" out there. A few posters, one in particular, have gone out of their way to trash Roof. Your posts have been rational most of the time, and you haven't resorted to the "no proof Roof" and "Leaky Roof" that others have. I still don't agree with you, but you haven't hit the point of being ignored yet, either.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Gentlemen, I appreciate your consistency in making this or similar posts about our D not having a player who would start for georgie's D etc. While I don't concede the point about georgie's D, I think it's important to once again clarify the opposing side of the argument.

I want to focus on this part of the quote: "But you and your crowd won't even acknowledge the personnel we have on this roster. They're not elite."

I think that this reflects the point y'all are failing to appreciate. The complaints about Roof do not arise because our defense isn't elite. They arise because our defense hasn't been average. If you want to press your point, then rather than saying, "They're not elite," about our players on D, say, "They're below average." Rather than saying, "We don't have a player who would start for georgie," say, "We don't have a player who would start for Duke."

Now, if you say that, then you will be countering the complaints against Roof. If you don't, then you're just knocking down a straw man because nobody's complaining because we're not elite or even top 25 D.

I think you misinterpreted the comment on "elite." I understood the OP to be saying the talent was not elite, not the D itself.

On this topic, I think there has been some misunderstanding about posters who complain about lack of talent on our D. I don't feel like we lack talent, but I do acknowledge that the talent level of individual players on our D are not the same as that of the football factories. That being said, football is a team game, and individual talent can only take you so far. You have to buy in and be coachable for that talent to be utilized. This is why so many high 4*/5* athletes are busts, and why som many 2*/3* athletes end up excelling. Effort and determination can go a long way to making up for talent differential.

 

[TechTravis]

Recruiting as defined as creating relationship.

WE ARE 6-15 AGAINST uga . There is no gt stuff (as compared to ugad and creminoles) for sale in Statesboro or columbus sports shop . WE HAVE NO BUZZ

Best dollar spent is to start recruiting wider area .

In past
We recruited within 200 miles of campus and Tampa and spotty up north.

I tried to get Todd spencer to recruit east Texas where son coaches. By way he turned a perinial celled dweller 2A team into winning first playoff game. They lost but got to avoid a team w 2 300 DT (both sure d1 ) that have not been scored upon in 6 games. The closest colleges are 200 miles away. This weekend they (Tenaha plays Brehmon for championship. Breton on has a 40 plus winning streak which this year has been propelled by a super athletic qb.

Son says that none of the kids in deep east texas want to go to college and move back. Most long to live in big city.

Recently we made some progress by adding cal and Louisiana (I 10).

Open up $$and recruit in wider area!
Most on this site underestimate how Gt will sell it self to kids around the nation.

Man, that's some unrealistic expectations. You want our staff to devote time and resources to a region in TX we have no presence in because your son coaches there? Be real. Statesboro and Columbus both also have state colleges in them. CSU is particular is a college people go to basically to transfer credits to u(sic)ga or auburn. This isn't Vietnam. We're not gonna "win their hearts and minds" through merch and goodwill. We do the most fan winning between the sidelines. Win and the fans will be there. Beat u(sic)ga again next year and now some of the unaffiliated kids in the state start going "man, that's pretty cool." The only "Buzz" I'm worried about is the finest mascot in all the land. Win games. Everything else will take care of itself...

 

[Techster]

CPJ's offense allows him to recruit some players that are not "elite" (curious word) but who are in fact "elite" in his offense.
The defenses, all that have been run for the last 50 or so years at GT, do not allow the luxury of signing players that are
"elite" to a unique system. Before you scream, yeah there have been a few years here and there with very good defensive play.
Exceptions to the year in year out run poor defenses at GT over the period.

So what you're saying is CPJ has a scheme that maximizes his offensive talent? That's the whole point, it's what you do within the scheme, how well you convey it to your players, how well you develop them. CPJ's offense has been around for 30 odd years now...there are no secrets. Bud Foster even admitted they know what we do, it's just a matter of stopping it that's hard.

The VT, UVA, and to a certain extent, UGA game shows the potential of our players. We have good players on defense. Maybe not elite, but good enough to be at least an average defense.

If Roof is retained (which it seems like he will be), my hope is that the defense can carry forward their momentum from the last 3 games.

 

[AE 87]

I think you misinterpreted the comment on "elite." I understood the OP to be saying the talent was not elite, not the D itself.

On this topic, I think there has been some misunderstanding about posters who complain about lack of talent on our D. I don't feel like we lack talent, but I do acknowledge that the talent level of individual players on our D are not the same as that of the football factories. That being said, football is a team game, and individual talent can only take you so far. You have to buy in and be coachable for that talent to be utilized. This is why so many high 4*/5* athletes are busts, and why som many 2*/3* athletes end up excelling. Effort and determination can go a long way to making up for talent differential.

We interpreted the use of the word "elite" in the same way.

Let me try to make my point more clear: If people were to complain that Roof was not providing GT with an elite D, then the response, "We don't have elite talent," is a reasonable response. When people complain that Roof is not providing GT with even an average D, then the response, "We don't have elite talent," is a straw man.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I don't care about any stat. D looked AWFUL in the first half. Did decent the 2nd by holding them to some FG's. Stepped up when they had to at the end. All I care about is winning and that's what we did.

3 of their trips to the redzone netted 6 points. That..... is why we won.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

We interpreted the use of the word "elite" in the same way.

Let me try to make my point more clear: If people were to complain that Roof was not providing GT with an elite D, then the response, "We don't have elite talent," is a reasonable response. When people complain that Roof is not providing GT with even an average D, then the response, "We don't have elite talent," is a straw man.

I am not sure how much of a straw man it is, though. Sure, blaming failings on talent alone is disingenuous, but the reality is that the schools that recruit better tend to perform better. Outside of truly horrific coaching or massive injuries, we generally see that the football factories that recruit well do better on D.

On O, there are many schemes that can be utilized to offset talent margin. I am not sure that there is a ready scheme for the D that does the same. This goes back to my point on talent margin. I think that there is some argument to be made along that line. That would explain results against factories and schools that recruit well otherwise, but don't necessarily explain poor defensive games against the lower tier schools on our schedule. My hope is that development of the DL continues and that we see marked improvement next year.

 

[AE 87]

I am not sure how much of a straw man it is, though. Sure, blaming failings on talent alone is disingenuous, but the reality is that the schools that recruit better tend to perform better. Outside of truly horrific coaching or massive injuries, we generally see that the football factories that recruit well do better on D.

On O, there are many schemes that can be utilized to offset talent margin. I am not sure that there is a ready scheme for the D that does the same. This goes back to my point on talent margin. I think that there is some argument to be made along that line. That would explain results against factories and schools that recruit well otherwise, but don't necessarily explain poor defensive games against the lower tier schools on our schedule. My hope is that development of the DL continues and that we see marked improvement next year.

The question is simply whether Roof is getting the most out of our talent. It is not whether he, or my mom, could get better results from better talent. A DC's job is to maximize the performance of his talent (and help get the best talent possible). If our talent is not below average but our results are below average, then that's a strike against him in fulfilling that job.

Again, the issue isn't "failings" as if the standard is perfection. The issue is overall performance where the standard is what other teams are doing, especially comparable teams.

I disagree that "scheme" or "coaching" is less of an issue on D than on O. Brown (from BC to Mich) and Foster (vpi) are two obvious exemplars of consistently maximizing results from talent.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

When people complain that Roof is not providing GT with even an average D...

Depends on which metric.

scoring D... above average
rushing D... average
passing D... average
total D... average
FEI (efficiency)... below average
3rd down D... below average
redzone D... above average

D line is key, imo. If you have good to great players here, it makes all the difference in your defense. Same goes if you have weak players here or guys playing before they're ready.

sacks... way below average (rank: 112)
tfl's... way below average (rank: 118)

 

[PBR549]

Don't sweat it, for the most part it's people that either have their vision clouded by the fact roof played for us, or they just don't understand football at a high level imo.

This is why I can't take you seriously.

 

[AE 87]

Depends on which metric.

scoring D... above average
rushing D... average
passing D... average
total D... average
FEI (efficiency)... below average
3rd down D... below average
redzone D... above average

D line is key, imo. If you have good to great players here, it makes all the difference in your defense. Same goes if you have weak players here or guys playing before they're ready.

sacks... way below average (rank: 112)
tfl's... way below average (rank: 118)

So, for the record, after YEARS of message board threads and head coach comments about how misleading rankings based on "per game" stats are, you're doubling down in their favor? Okay, then.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

We all have varying opinions here. I honestly think his results pretty much equaled the talent we had on hand in the front 7. Not exactly a ringing endorsement but also not deserving of some of the ridiculous, and often self contradictory, criticisms he got regarding scheme etc.

 

[tech_wreck47]

This is why I can't take you seriously.

I explained my comment in my post after lol.

 

[PBR549]

Gentlemen, I appreciate your consistency in making this or similar posts about our D not having a player who would start for georgie's D etc. While I don't concede the point about georgie's D, I think it's important to once again clarify the opposing side of the argument.

I want to focus on this part of the quote: "But you and your crowd won't even acknowledge the personnel we have on this roster. They're not elite."

I think that this reflects the point y'all are failing to appreciate. The complaints about Roof do not arise because our defense isn't elite. They arise because our defense hasn't been average. If you want to press your point, then rather than saying, "They're not elite," about our players on D, say, "They're below average." Rather than saying, "We don't have a player who would start for georgie," say, "We don't have a player who would start for Duke."

Now, if you say that, then you will be countering the complaints against Roof. If you don't, then you're just knocking down a straw man because nobody's complaining because we're not elite or even top 25 D.

This is why I think you are missing the point. 3 times in the red zone against GA yielded 6 points. They had 3 TDs one of which was off a turnover. Our offense has not been the time chewer it has in the past. You can pull whatever statistic you want to play with but Roof got as much out of our below average defensive talent than anyone could have. Our offensive scheme allows us to get the most out of our below average talent but on defense you are on an island. OCs Will find your weaknesses. There is nowhere to hide whatever the scheme. Nobody could have gotten any more out of these guys than our staff. We never lacked effort. We tried everything scheme wise. If you cannot see that you have a bias or you don't understand scheme at all. If you get your way and Roof is fired it will set us back. We've never had a DC who consistently over a period of years was able to shut people down. We've had a year here and a year there but never consistently.

Johnson knows he doesn't want to loose Roof. If he's so arrogant that he lets Roof go I'll give him two years. He knows that.

 

[jandrews]

This is why I think you are missing the point. 3 times in the red zone against GA yielded 6 points. They had 3 TDs one of which was off a turnover. Our offense has not been the time chewer it has in the past. You can pull whatever statistic you want to play with but Roof got as much out of our below average defensive talent than anyone could have. Our offensive scheme allows us to get the most out of our below average talent but on defense you are on an island. OCs Will find your weaknesses. There is nowhere to hide whatever the scheme. Nobody could have gotten any more out of these guys than our staff. We never lacked effort. We tried everything scheme wise. If you cannot see that you have a bias or you don't understand scheme at all. If you get your way and Roof is fired it will set us back. We've never had a DC who consistently over a period of years was able to shut people down. We've had a year here and a year there but never consistently.

Johnson knows he doesn't want to loose Roof. If he's so arrogant that he lets Roof go I'll give him two years. He knows that.

Always felt that letting go the DC puts us behind in defensive recruiting. Roof has improved our recruiting we are bringing in better players. This season was the last one were we had 3-4 recruits on the defense. They played their hearts out. We still will be fairly young at the DT but the young guys are more inline with Roofs scheme. For several years we lacked depth on the defense. Now we are starting to finally build it up.

 

[tech_wreck47]

This is why I think you are missing the point. 3 times in the red zone against GA yielded 6 points. They had 3 TDs one of which was off a turnover. Our offense has not been the time chewer it has in the past. You can pull whatever statistic you want to play with but Roof got as much out of our below average defensive talent than anyone could have. Our offensive scheme allows us to get the most out of our below average talent but on defense you are on an island. OCs Will find your weaknesses. There is nowhere to hide whatever the scheme. Nobody could have gotten any more out of these guys than our staff. We never lacked effort. We tried everything scheme wise. If you cannot see that you have a bias or you don't understand scheme at all. If you get your way and Roof is fired it will set us back. We've never had a DC who consistently over a period of years was able to shut people down. We've had a year here and a year there but never consistently.

Johnson knows he doesn't want to loose Roof. If he's so arrogant that he lets Roof go I'll give him two years. He knows that.

I'm not trying to argue but how do you know roof got more out of our recruits than anyone else could have? I understand scheme very well and I also understand that with a 2-gap D there is less margin for error.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I dare say every team wants a better defense. But, I would like to average one three and out every quarter, limit the other team to 75 yards rushing, and limit their time of possession to 20 minutes.

 

[awbuzz]

I dare say every team wants a better defense. But, I would like to average one three and out every quarter, limit the other team to 75 yards rushing, and limit their time of possession to 20 minutes.

... add their PPD to 1.0 or less

 

[AE 87]

This is why I think you are missing the point. 3 times in the red zone against GA yielded 6 points. They had 3 TDs one of which was off a turnover. Our offense has not been the time chewer it has in the past. You can pull whatever statistic you want to play with but Roof got as much out of our below average defensive talent than anyone could have. Our offensive scheme allows us to get the most out of our below average talent but on defense you are on an island. OCs Will find your weaknesses. There is nowhere to hide whatever the scheme. Nobody could have gotten any more out of these guys than our staff. We never lacked effort. We tried everything scheme wise. If you cannot see that you have a bias or you don't understand scheme at all. If you get your way and Roof is fired it will set us back. We've never had a DC who consistently over a period of years was able to shut people down. We've had a year here and a year there but never consistently.

Johnson knows he doesn't want to loose Roof. If he's so arrogant that he lets Roof go I'll give him two years. He knows that.

I appreciate you passion for Roof. I also appreciate that you now say that we have below average talent among FBS teams. Before you were saying that they wouldn't start for georgie, and now you are saying that they would only start for the worst Pwr5 teams and not for many G5 teams.

That position is coherent. I just disagree.

 

[OldJacketFan]

I dare say every team wants a better defense. But, I would like to average one three and out every quarter, limit the other team to 75 yards rushing, and limit their time of possession to 20 minutes.

You do realize that holding a team to or under 75 yards rushing is AL D territory 125 or less? I can see that. 75 or less? Not a chance to do on a regular basis with the teams Tech plays every year.