Specific questions about CPJ backing

[boger2337]

He has had a ST coach didn't matter.

Hahahahahaha I'd love for him to back that up with how they played recently

 

[boger2337]

I actually count 30 according to GT Athletics website:

http://ramblinwreck.com/staff-directory/

The directory doesn't even include strength and conditioning coach and S&C assistants who we have several of. So GT is actually over 30.

I'm taking an educated guess that the linked list isn't accurate not only for GT, but other schools. I'm 100% certain every school has GAs, even though the list doesn't have GAs counted for several schools. With respect to that list, I'd pay attention more to the number of Off Field Recruiting staff numbers. I'm going to assume every school is going to fully staff for on the field positions, GAs, S&C (though some schools may have a few more).

I think schools like Clemson, FSU, Bama have more recruiting staff help, and more coaches labled "offensive/defensive quality control" type personnel. But if you look at the number of recruiting personnel, GT is about where every school NOT a factory is.

Here's the thing: Any reasonable GT fan understands that GT is not going to out recruit the factories of the world from a $$$ standpoint, and we can't sign some of the same kids as the factories of the world because our academic requirements are higher. The thing is, that has always been the case. I think any reasonable understands that GT isn't going to win against those teams on the field a majority of the time because of that. Heck, CPJ is like 3-7 against UGA and he's a saint for it. That's not the issue here. The issue is when did GT start feeling it's OK to lose to the Dukes/USFs/Pitt level schools of the world? Those are the type of teams GT fans could count on for our 6 wins towards a bowl game, but now it seems we struggle with those teams as well.

I don't know if fans have been paying attention, but more money has been invested into our program in the last 10 years under CPJ than the previous 30 years combined. GT had an indoor practice facility built BEFORE UGA/FSU/Miami and plenty of other schools. In the city of Atlanta no less. Let that sink in. GT isn't as destitute as some of us want to think as to make our mind numbing losses excusable.

Right, but if we dont want to try and achieve the success of the factories why even play. Why play the game if you're not there to win... I dont understand that mentality.

Because of our academic restrictions then we need to spend more than other teams, which means these alumni and fans needs to pony up the moooolaa. I've said before, be gimmicky, be slick, get money out of the hands of alumni and fans and into the program, so that way you aren't wasting their time putting a terrible product on the field.

We need to double our spending on the program within the next 4 years. What's our plan for that? We better have one.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I believe I saw bama pays the strength and conditioning coach 420k a year... let that sink in.... we probably pay our guy 70-100k a year lol

Yup. Brent Venables makes almost as much as Paul Johnson. Their running backs coach makes $850,000. LOL.

 

[Vespidae]

I had considered starting a thread that similarly tried to take an objective look at CPJ's tenure at GT, and his likely future.

If you've followed my posting history, I've been a CPJ supporter from the beginning. Not b/c I am some option fanboy, but because I've followed his entire career, and the way he goes about his business. I had friends who played for him who led me to believe he was a hardass, but he was consistent, fair, loved his players, worked for their success in life regardless of football, and knew how to win. He has proven that at GT. I respect the fact that his last two coaching stops were challenging environments, to say the least.

I believe he was the absolute best hire we could have made in 2008. He's had some lows that were lower than the CCG years, but his highs are higher, and for that, I am grateful. Being a GT fan is hard, and the three wins over UGAg (along with 2 that we had a shot to win and should've), ACC title appearances, Orange Bowl wins and exciting brand of offensive football have made the lows well worth it, to me.

The point of this thread is about support, however, and I am one who believes that GT has been operating with their hands tied behind their back in football for years. TS clearly sees this and is taking steps to remedy it. Is it too little too late?

Even for a die-hard CPJ guy like me, I realize that the timing may simply be too late. The $$$ and recruiting efforts will pay off, but that may take a couple of years. Even when they do, GT is merely putting itself in a slightly-shallower hole compared to the programs everyone expects us to compete with. We will still be miles behind CU and UGAg when those efforts are complete.

The reality of this season is that CNW needs time, Tobias Oliver, James Graham, Lucas Johnson, Jordan Yates (the next generation of QBs) need time, and TS's efforts need time. But now we're 1-2, about to face CU, and it feels like time has run out. My heart says hold on a little longer, fight through 2018, and see CPJ catch his second wind and take GT to perennial top 15 territory. My head fears the combination of fan frustration, low attendance, and a third down year out of 4 (despite circumstances) will do him in. I believe TS wants to give him more time to succeed with more comparable resources. But butts in seats matter. It wouldn't be the end of the world for me if GT moved on from CPJ sooner than later, but I hope people here would recognize all he did here, how he did it, and the hurdles he overcame to do it.

It's a good post. Chatting with a friend at UT today, comments were made that UT may take several years. Yes, they have the money, facilities, etc ... but bad coaching choices have set them back 4-5 years.

 

[MWBATL]

There shouldn't even be a question or argument about the $$$ being spent on football. GT is so far behind it is now ridiculous. There have been articles which show our spending to be in the bottom 3 of the ACC. And, gee....look at our on-field results. Why, by gosh and by golly...bottom 3 of the ACC!! This is not CPJ's problem. This is barely even TStan's problem...he has stepped right in the middle of a pile of doo-doo and has tried to initiate what he could in fund-raising. This is a program problem, and Administration MUST address it...or we continue to slide downhill. Georgia literally outspends us $160 MM to $60 MM every year on athletics (total). That disaprity is NOT because of their swimming or tennis programs.

$$$ talks. Everything else walks.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

We are MUCH closer to South Florida and Tulane in our spending than we are to Georgia and Clemson.

 

[jgtengineer]

There shouldn't even be a question or argument about the $$$ being spent on football. GT is so far behind it is now ridiculous. There have been articles which show our spending to be in the bottom 3 of the ACC. And, gee....look at our on-field results. Why, by gosh and by golly...bottom 3 of the ACC!! This is not CPJ's problem. This is barely even TStan's problem...he has stepped right in the middle of a pile of doo-doo and has tried to initiate what he could in fund-raising. This is a program problem, and Administration MUST address it...or we continue to slide downhill. Georgia literally outspends us $160 MM to $60 MM every year on athletics (total). That disaprity is NOT because of their swimming or tennis programs.

$$$ talks. Everything else walks.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

We are MUCH closer to South Florida and Tulane in our spending than we are to Georgia and Clemson.

I ran these numbers in a thread about the south florida game. Our football budget is 17 million theirs is 10.6 and only because strong is being paid by texas or it would match ours.

 

[boger2337]

There shouldn't even be a question or argument about the $$$ being spent on football. GT is so far behind it is now ridiculous. There have been articles which show our spending to be in the bottom 3 of the ACC. And, gee....look at our on-field results. Why, by gosh and by golly...bottom 3 of the ACC!! This is not CPJ's problem. This is barely even TStan's problem...he has stepped right in the middle of a pile of doo-doo and has tried to initiate what he could in fund-raising. This is a program problem, and Administration MUST address it...or we continue to slide downhill. Georgia literally outspends us $160 MM to $60 MM every year on athletics (total). That disaprity is NOT because of their swimming or tennis programs.

$$$ talks. Everything else walks.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

We are MUCH closer to South Florida and Tulane in our spending than we are to Georgia and Clemson.

Exactly.

 

[Techster]

There shouldn't even be a question or argument about the $$$ being spent on football. GT is so far behind it is now ridiculous. There have been articles which show our spending to be in the bottom 3 of the ACC. And, gee....look at our on-field results. Why, by gosh and by golly...bottom 3 of the ACC!! This is not CPJ's problem. This is barely even TStan's problem...he has stepped right in the middle of a pile of doo-doo and has tried to initiate what he could in fund-raising. This is a program problem, and Administration MUST address it...or we continue to slide downhill. Georgia literally outspends us $160 MM to $60 MM every year on athletics (total). That disaprity is NOT because of their swimming or tennis programs.

$$$ talks. Everything else walks.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

We are MUCH closer to South Florida and Tulane in our spending than we are to Georgia and Clemson.

I wonder how much more revenue schools with soccer/lacrosse/etc. teams get than GT? I would assume their apparell contracts, media shares, and other revenue tied into content and amount of teams outfitted has to be more. A school like NC State that has mens and womens soccer teams has to get a larger portion of media shares than GT since those teams create content for media. Also, their apparel contract has to be higher since they are obviously using more uniforms and equipment. All those have to factor in revenue generation.

I would be more interested in seeing revenue/expenses broken down by sport. Hard to do an apples to apples comparison when not all schools have the same amount of sports programs. (**Let's assume we're not comparing GT to factory schools...that's a fool's errand**)

 

[Vespidae]

This is a program problem, and Administration MUST address it...or we continue to slide downhill. .

How do you propose the Administration to fix it? NCAA rules prohibit more than 10% of Uni money being spent on athletic programs ... programs are funded by the athletic administrations that support them. The GTAA has been horribly managed for 60 years ... EVEN with a budget of $70 million, we've made numerous bad decisions on facilities, debt, coaches ... I think Peterson is probably right to say, "It's your business, you fix it."

If TStan wants to fix it, he has to get outside money to step in and do it.

 

[Vespidae]

I would be more interested in seeing revenue/expenses broken down by sport. Hard to do an apples to apples comparison when not all schools have the same amount of sports programs. (**Let's assume we're not comparing GT to factory schools...that's a fool's errand**)

I did this analysis a while back. In almost all cases, the only two sports to generate net contribution to the school is football and basketball. All others tend to spend more than they generate.

Tech's biggest shortcoming in terms of generating needed revenue is the lack of a booster program. I recall that FSU generates more money from its Seminole Club than it does selling tickets to the games. We by contrast, generate zero.

 

[slugboy]

I had considered starting a thread that similarly tried to take an objective look at CPJ's tenure at GT, and his likely future.

If you've followed my posting history, I've been a CPJ supporter from the beginning. Not b/c I am some option fanboy, but because I've followed his entire career, and the way he goes about his business. I had friends who played for him who led me to believe he was a hardass, but he was consistent, fair, loved his players, worked for their success in life regardless of football, and knew how to win. He has proven that at GT. I respect the fact that his last two coaching stops were challenging environments, to say the least.
...

The reality of this season is that CNW needs time, Tobias Oliver, James Graham, Lucas Johnson, Jordan Yates (the next generation of QBs) need time, and TS's efforts need time. But now we're 1-2, about to face CU, and it feels like time has run out. My heart says hold on a little longer, fight through 2018, and see CPJ catch his second wind and take GT to perennial top 15 territory. My head fears the combination of fan frustration, low attendance, and a third down year out of 4 (despite circumstances) will do him in. I believe TS wants to give him more time to succeed with more comparable resources. But butts in seats matter. It wouldn't be the end of the world for me if GT moved on from CPJ sooner than later, but I hope people here would recognize all he did here, how he did it, and the hurdles he overcame to do it.

Right now, I'd be happy with top 25 territory. I think this is a great post. Other schools like Duke have picked up on their staffing and support more than we have, and that hurt us a few years ago. Some smart people think that CNW just needs a little time to build something great on defense, but CPJ might not have enough time.

I will say that we've had some problems in support in the athletic department, but some of it seems self-inflicted. Negative recruiting, special teams, and defense have been problems for about 9 out of 10 years.

I actually count 30 according to GT Athletics website:
...

I don't know if fans have been paying attention, but more money has been invested into our program in the last 10 years under CPJ than the previous 30 years combined. GT had an indoor practice facility built BEFORE UGA/FSU/Miami and plenty of other schools. In the city of Atlanta no less. Let that sink in. GT isn't as destitute as some of us want to think as to make our mind numbing losses excusable.

I went out to look for the spending numbers. The Knight Foundation had some numbers through 2015, and we seemed to have a decent budget through then: http://spendingdatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/acc . We spent a lot per athlete.

There were some other numbers through USA Today that got posted to a UT blog, but just the public numbers: https://247sports.com/college/virgi...o-Widen-Across-the-ACC-119587438/#119587438_3. These show us behind the other reported schools.

Duke, Syracuse, Pitt, and others don't show up.

 

[TechCubed]

IMO, there are three defining moments in the last 50 years of college football:

-- Integration in 60-70s
-- Introduction of APR in mid-2000s
-- Conference networks/TV money in mid-2010s

Each of these significantly shifted the landscape of the sport, and there are schools/conferences who adapted and thrived while others were behind the curve.

Specifically for APR, you could not longer "hide" kids taking a bunch of electives who need 100 more hours when 4 years of eligibility expired. The schools that adapted to the rule created new majors to continue to hide players. Georgia Tech did not (and we should take pride in that).

With SEC, Big 10 and Pac 12 networks launching, it created a new stream of revenue (not so much for P-12 though) that hadn't previously existed. You take an extra 5-15 million per year, and there's a lot more money to invest in facilities, staffing, amenities. That created a new arms race, and for the most part the ACC was left behind.

It's shocking to think when Richt was hired by Georgia in 2001, O'Leary had a higher salary. The total budgets were about the same. Ralph Friedgen was once among the highest-paid coordinators in that nation. That era is not long gone.

The gap between the top 10-15 programs and everyone else has grown so wide over that last 10 years. Georgia Tech is like a lot of other Power-5 schools -- you want to win more than you lose and hope to catch lightning in a bottle every 4-5 years to win 9, 10 or 11 games.

There are a lot of approaches to compete, and most involve throwing money and people at the problem. Like any business, that works if you spend in the right areas and hire the right people. Otherwise, it's rinse and repeat.

 

[MWBATL]

(**Let's assume we're not comparing GT to factory schools...that's a fool's errand**)

Then why do we play them?

 

[boger2337]

I did this analysis a while back. In almost all cases, the only two sports to generate net contribution to the school is football and basketball. All others tend to spend more than they generate.

Tech's biggest shortcoming in terms of generating needed revenue is the lack of a booster program. I recall that FSU generates more money from its Seminole Club than it does selling tickets to the games. We by contrast, generate zero.

Wait... we don't have boosters?????
Why the heck not?!?!?!

 

[Techster]

Then why do we play them?

Contractual obligation.

 

[MWBATL]

Tech's biggest shortcoming in terms of generating needed revenue is the lack of a booster program. I recall that FSU generates more money from its Seminole Club than it does selling tickets to the games. We by contrast, generate zero.

Isn't our Booster Club Alexander-Tharpe? It certainly raises money and contributes....

 

[Vespidae]

Wait... we don't have boosters?????
Why the heck not?!?!?!

Tech has relied on a very small number of alumni to provide money. CPJ literally called one on the phone re the locker room renovation and he simply wrote a check.

Programs like Alabama, Auburn, FSU ... have extensive networks of fundraising through local booster clubs. For whatever reason, Tech has not taken any steps to duplicate this model.

 

[MWBATL]

Contractual obligation.

OK, but then we should (in essence) concede the games against factories, and be satisfied with competing against those teams in similar economic circumstances....which would be about half our schedule, maybe slightly more

 

[boger2337]

Isn't our Booster Club Alexander-Tharpe? It certainly raises money and contributes....

He means like local groups fund raising for tech. Not our true fund.

Like local businesses making donations to the program for a tax write off, etc. Etc.

 

[boger2337]

Tech has relied on a very small number of alumni to provide money. CPJ literally called one on the phone re the locker room renovation and he simply wrote a check.

Programs like Alabama, Auburn, FSU ... have extensive networks of fundraising through local booster clubs. For whatever reason, Tech has not taken any steps to duplicate this model.

Who and how do we contact someone to possibly get this going???