Rotating QBs good or bad ?

[TromboneJacket]

Joe was like a third string who wasn't long. Shawn tried a different position.

Fair enough on Jones, though he was a QB in the CFL, but as far as Hamilton goes, it still counts. Aaron Murray was a backup in the NFL too; it still counts, especially at QB.

And if you had bothered to read my post about Tobias in its entirety rather than constructing a strawman that you could knock down, you would have seen that I recommended keeping Tobias at QB for the time being. We’re on the same side here. Can you refrain from calling me “crazy stupid” in the future for trying to understand the coaches’ thought process?

 

[Josh H]

Rotating QBs, especially three of them, is not a good thing. The staff is rotating 3 QBs because, as of right now, they don't have one. Against Clemson it was mostly Oliver and Graham. Against USF it was mostly Lucas and Oliver. Against Citadel - by necessity, it was Oliver and Graham.

In very rare scenarios - you have two talented QBs that just have to see the field. Greene and Shockley at UGA

In less rare scenarios - you have the prized, talented recruit sharing snaps until they are ready to takeover. See Trevor Lawrence last year, Vad Lee and Tevin Washington, etc

Then you have situational rotation - "goal-line" packages where maybe the backup is a better runner or you just don't want the starter taking that kind of pounding.

As for our QB rotation: I understand the people who say Tobias gives us the best chance to win now. I don't necessarily disagree. But let's look at these passing stats:

Clemson: 3 of 9 for 65 yards, long of 54, 3 sacks. He had a nice, open pass to Jerry Howard who got yards after the catch
USF: 2 of 3 for 11 yards
Citadel: 2 of 3 for 27 yards

That's as one-dimensional as you can be as a QB. Teams just flat out do not have to respect the pass when Tobias is in at QB. USF is *bad*, and Citadel is an FCS team.

Let's look at Lucas Johnson:

Clemson: 0 for 2
USF: 11 of 17 for 45 yards, 2.6 average, long of 11, 1 INT
CIT: 5 for 10, 91 yards, 9.1 average, 1 TD, 3 Sacks

The TD throw vs Citadel really padded Lucas stats, and if you were at the game, it was an under-thrown, wobbling duck. Camp was just physically better than their DB - but it could have easily been a pick.

Still, being touted as a "passing" QB and not breaking 100 yards through the air isn't exactly promising.

James Graham:

Clemson: 4 of 7 for 72 yards, Average of 10.3, with a beautiful TD to Brown where only he could get it. 1 sack
USF: 1 for 1, 20 yards (big 3rd down conversion and a bullet of a pass - I think also to Brown). 2 Sacks.
CIT: Did not participate

Graham is a much smaller sample size right now - but he can provide explosive plays in the passing game, something the other two QBs have no consistently shown.

What about running the ball? Keeping in mind, sacks are going to lower the average, so the throwing quarterbacks (Lucas and James) will look worse:

Tobias:

Clemson: 20 for 56 yards, 2.8 average. Long of 39. It worked early - but Clemson adjusted quickly
USF: 9 for 48, 5.3 average, Long of 11. 1 TD
CIT: 11 for 92, 8.4 average, Long of 22

Tobias ran pretty well against Citadel, but that's an FCS team. USF kept him mostly in check, especially in terms of explosiveness, and Clemson is the defending national champs.

Lucas:

USF: 9 for 36, long of 13
CIT: 7 for 5 yards.

Weirdly enough, Lucas had *almost* as many yards against USF as Tobias, mainly due to that long 13 yard run (I believe it was a 3rd down conversion).
Against Citadel - he just wasn't a dual threat. Based on the eye test - I just don't think he has the same wheels that he had when he ran for 70 yards in that spring game.

Graham:

Clemson: 4 for 15, 3.8 yards per attempt
USF: 6 attempts for 2 yards, with a long of 15. Those 2 sacks really hurt his average.

Looking at the stats, what can we conclude?

- We're not good on offense as a team
- Tobias can run the ball well but isn't a dual-threat QB, and didn't light the world on fire against USF
- Lucas has the most attempts and may understand the offense the best - but isn't pushing the ball downfield and isn't much of a threat as runner
- Graham, in very limited action, has shown willingness and capability to get the ball downfield.
- Did I mention we're not good on offense?

If it were my choice - I'd play Graham as much as possible and let him learn by fire. He'll make mistakes, but he'll also make some plays, so hopefully those balance out. Tobias should have some wildcat packages but is too good of an athlete to keep off the field.

The bigger issue is that O-line help is at least another year away.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

and I totally disagree. Oliver is our starting Qb. Graham is a sack waiting to happen. We are a running football team. Always have been

We were a running team and I wish we still were. Right now we are 123rd in the nation in scoring playing Oliver and Johnson at QB. I’m as optimistic as they come but we are a terrible football team right now and our running game is facing 9 in the box every play. I have no problem playing Tobias at QB because I know what to expect - some nice moves and runs, a few drives where we’ll get into the red zone, a whole lot of off target/wobbly passes, and a loss. Graham at least will make the DB’s worry about a legit pass. I have no favorite but Graham is the only one who has shown any life at QB. The DC’s we have coming up are going to stuff our running game until we learn to complete a pass.

 

[RonJohn]

We were a running team and I wish we still were. Right now we are 123rd in the nation in scoring playing Oliver and Johnson at QB. I’m as optimistic as they come but we are a terrible football team right now and our running game is facing 9 in the box every play. I have no problem playing Tobias at QB because I know what to expect - some nice moves and runs, a few drives where we’ll get into the red zone, a whole lot of off target/wobbly passes, and a loss. Graham at least will make the DB’s worry about a legit pass. I have no favorite but Graham is the only one who has shown any life at QB. The DC’s we have coming up are going to stuff our running game until we learn to complete a pass.

I'm not trying to criticize Graham, but can he check through progressions? Can he hit the short and medium passes? Based on what he has done to this point, can he quickly determine that a play is busted and run for positive yards, or will he keep running backwards looking for the big pass? He did show in the Clemson game that he can hit the long pass, but what will he do if the defense takes that play away? People have been quick to say that TO runs, but doesn't pass so defenses stack the box. What will Graham do if the defenses take away the deep pass? What will he do if the defensive secondary constantly changes coverages? None of the 3 QBs has proven that they can be effective in all aspects of the game. We haven't been able to see practice, but in games none of the 3 have been given much of a chance to prove it.

 

[iceeater1969]

Rotating QBs, especially three of them, is not a good thing. The staff is rotating 3 QBs because, as of right now, they don't have one. Against Clemson it was mostly Oliver and Graham. Against USF it was mostly Lucas and Oliver. Against Citadel - by necessity, it was Oliver and Graham.

In very rare scenarios - you have two talented QBs that just have to see the field. Greene and Shockley at UGA

In less rare scenarios - you have the prized, talented recruit sharing snaps until they are ready to takeover. See Trevor Lawrence last year, Vad Lee and Tevin Washington, etc

Then you have situational rotation - "goal-line" packages where maybe the backup is a better runner or you just don't want the starter taking that kind of pounding.

As for our QB rotation: I understand the people who say Tobias gives us the best chance to win now. I don't necessarily disagree. But let's look at these passing stats:

Clemson: 3 of 9 for 65 yards, long of 54, 3 sacks. He had a nice, open pass to Jerry Howard who got yards after the catch
USF: 2 of 3 for 11 yards
Citadel: 2 of 3 for 27 yards

That's as one-dimensional as you can be as a QB. Teams just flat out do not have to respect the pass when Tobias is in at QB. USF is *bad*, and Citadel is an FCS team.

Let's look at Lucas Johnson:

Clemson: 0 for 2
USF: 11 of 17 for 45 yards, 2.6 average, long of 11, 1 INT
CIT: 5 for 10, 91 yards, 9.1 average, 1 TD, 3 Sacks

The TD throw vs Citadel really padded Lucas stats, and if you were at the game, it was an under-thrown, wobbling duck. Camp was just physically better than their DB - but it could have easily been a pick.

Still, being touted as a "passing" QB and not breaking 100 yards through the air isn't exactly promising.

James Graham:

Clemson: 4 of 7 for 72 yards, Average of 10.3, with a beautiful TD to Brown where only he could get it. 1 sack
USF: 1 for 1, 20 yards (big 3rd down conversion and a bullet of a pass - I think also to Brown). 2 Sacks.
CIT: Did not participate

Graham is a much smaller sample size right now - but he can provide explosive plays in the passing game, something the other two QBs have no consistently shown.

What about running the ball? Keeping in mind, sacks are going to lower the average, so the throwing quarterbacks (Lucas and James) will look worse:

Tobias:

Clemson: 20 for 56 yards, 2.8 average. Long of 39. It worked early - but Clemson adjusted quickly
USF: 9 for 48, 5.3 average, Long of 11. 1 TD
CIT: 11 for 92, 8.4 average, Long of 22

Tobias ran pretty well against Citadel, but that's an FCS team. USF kept him mostly in check, especially in terms of explosiveness, and Clemson is the defending national champs.

Lucas:

USF: 9 for 36, long of 13
CIT: 7 for 5 yards.

Weirdly enough, Lucas had *almost* as many yards against USF as Tobias, mainly due to that long 13 yard run (I believe it was a 3rd down conversion).
Against Citadel - he just wasn't a dual threat. Based on the eye test - I just don't think he has the same wheels that he had when he ran for 70 yards in that spring game.

Graham:

Clemson: 4 for 15, 3.8 yards per attempt
USF: 6 attempts for 2 yards, with a long of 15. Those 2 sacks really hurt his average.

Looking at the stats, what can we conclude?

- We're not good on offense as a team
- Tobias can run the ball well but isn't a dual-threat QB, and didn't light the world on fire against USF
- Lucas has the most attempts and may understand the offense the best - but isn't pushing the ball downfield and isn't much of a threat as runner
- Graham, in very limited action, has shown willingness and capability to get the ball downfield.
- Did I mention we're not good on offense?

If it were my choice - I'd play Graham as much as possible and let him learn by fire. He'll make mistakes, but he'll also make some plays, so hopefully those balance out. Tobias should have some wildcat packages but is too good of an athlete to keep off the field.

The bigger issue is that O-line help is at least another year away.

Thanks for a number based post.

Agree that Graham should have started for citadel - and think he would have played if not wearing a boot brace.

I hope the present ol will get healthy. Hard to play a new offense when ol is getting injured.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I'm not trying to criticize Graham, but can he check through progressions? Can he hit the short and medium passes? Based on what he has done to this point, can he quickly determine that a play is busted and run for positive yards, or will he keep running backwards looking for the big pass? He did show in the Clemson game that he can hit the long pass, but what will he do if the defense takes that play away? People have been quick to say that TO runs, but doesn't pass so defenses stack the box. What will Graham do if the defenses take away the deep pass? What will he do if the defensive secondary constantly changes coverages? None of the 3 QBs has proven that they can be effective in all aspects of the game. We haven't been able to see practice, but in games none of the 3 have been given much of a chance to prove it.

That, unfortunately, is the reason they give for rotating the three. IMO that's a bogus reason. Pick one who you think can do the most overall and stick with him till he falls flat on his face. AT THIS POINT, I think that TO is that QB. Graham may show in time that he is, but he hasn't thus far (nor frankly has he had a chance to do so), but from what I have seen TO can now.

 

[chewybaka]

That, unfortunately, is the reason they give for rotating the three. IMO that's a bogus reason. Pick one who you think can do the most overall and stick with him till he falls flat on his face. AT THIS POINT, I think that TO is that QB. Graham may show in time that he is, but he hasn't thus far (nor frankly has he had a chance to do so), but from what I have seen TO can now.

It's an embarrassment...
Go with Oliver and move on...

 

[White_Gold]

I’m so sick of the same arguments. Hopefully we beat the snot out of Temple.

 

[Techster]

Graham is probably our best overall QB in terms of running and passing. Unfortunately, CPat's offense forces a lot of checks on the QB and it sounds like Graham is playing catch up to the other QBs due to playing catch up with school over the summer.

Hopefully they told Graham "Here's ten plays, here are your checks on these 10 plays against Temple...we'll spoon feed you from there..."

 

[DieselTeeth]

I’m so sick of the same arguments. Hopefully we beat the snot out of Temple.

I would like this 1000 times if the like button would let me. So sick of the same bull**** posted over and over. We lost, first year under new coach, get over it. Enough with the arm chair quarterback routine. How many P5 teams has our posters coached to a gosh darn campionchamp. ****ing zero!!! None of you would make it 3 months as a coach. We knew it would suck this year, take your lumps. Going from an option team to pro whatever style is going to be a transition. It will take time, maybe more than one or two years. We do not have the horses on either side of the ball to compete in the top 25, and if think we do you are fooling yourself. Everyone has the right to be upset about the citedel game, but damn, get a grip. If you think any of our quarterbacks on the roster are going to take us to the promise Land, you are mistaken. I love how all of you just know that replacing x with y would get us where we need to be. You have not seen one practice, you have never coached college ball, if you are smarter than our coaches, then sign up and get your own P5 team. I don't know if Collins is the answer or not, but the staff deserves a couple of years to figure it out.

 

[Jim Prather]

I would like this 1000 times if the like button would let me. So sick of the same bull**** posted over and over. We lost, first year under new coach, get over it. Enough with the arm chair quarterback routine. How many P5 teams has our posters coached to a gosh darn campionchamp. ****ing zero!!! None of you would make it 3 months as a coach. We knew it would suck this year, take your lumps. Going from an option team to pro whatever style is going to be a transition. It will take time, maybe more than one or two years. We do not have the horses on either side of the ball to compete in the top 25, and if think we do you are fooling yourself. Everyone has the right to be upset about the citedel game, but damn, get a grip. If you think any of our quarterbacks on the roster are going to take us to the promise Land, you are mistaken. I love how all of you just know that replacing x with y would get us where we need to be. You have not seen one practice, you have never coached college ball, if you are smarter than our coaches, then sign up and get your own P5 team. I don't know if Collins is the answer or not, but the staff deserves a couple of years to figure it out.

This is a FAN message board. People post their opinions on a board like this. It’s inevitable that many of them will be redundant. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you read them. Just skip to the end of the thread to clear it as read then move on. In the long run you will be a much happier person and so will the other GT fans whose opinions you are trying to invalidate.

 

[Animal02]

I would like this 1000 times if the like button would let me. So sick of the same bull**** posted over and over. We lost, first year under new coach, get over it. Enough with the arm chair quarterback routine. How many P5 teams has our posters coached to a gosh darn campionchamp. ****ing zero!!! None of you would make it 3 months as a coach. We knew it would suck this year, take your lumps. Going from an option team to pro whatever style is going to be a transition. It will take time, maybe more than one or two years. We do not have the horses on either side of the ball to compete in the top 25, and if think we do you are fooling yourself. Everyone has the right to be upset about the citedel game, but damn, get a grip. If you think any of our quarterbacks on the roster are going to take us to the promise Land, you are mistaken. I love how all of you just know that replacing x with y would get us where we need to be. You have not seen one practice, you have never coached college ball, if you are smarter than our coaches, then sign up and get your own P5 team. I don't know if Collins is the answer or not, but the staff deserves a couple of years to figure it out.

Another goal post moving "Shut up because I don't like your opinion post" How special.

Like we haven't seen that 1000 times.

 

[Techster]

Another goal post moving "Shut up because I don't like your opinion post" How special.

Like we haven't seen that 1000 times.

 

[DieselTeeth]

This is a FAN message board. People post their opinions on a board like this. It’s inevitable that many of them will be redundant. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you read them. Just skip to the end of the thread to clear it as read then move on. In the long run you will be a much happier person and so will the other GT fans whose opinions you are trying to invalidate.

What ??

 

[Jimbeaux]

Re watching coach's presser, it's all be confirmed that his style is going to be rotating QBs around depending on the package as a permanent thing, just like rotating other positions out.
I've never seen this in college football, at least to this degree..
What are some pros to this,

I've heard lots of negatives mainly mainly about how it never gets a QB enough time to settle in and then the risk of injury to all at the same time

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Watch and re-watch Patenaude here: https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/...ck-rotation-decisions/tgat2d5nGt0Xp1qxIhsRqI/

Summary: he has no plan whatsoever. He has never been a business or military leader. His view of the world is: "let's watch what happens and then formulate a response on the fly". That is not leadership. That is not a game plan. That is living life in a reactionary fashion.

Let's face it: football is a smash-mouth sport. When a team has an actual game-plan they know what they are trying to do on each play. When a hodgepodge of players that were drafted for a mish-mash of purposes are being pulled together in a "rebuilding year" they need a simple plan. Instead, we are watching wonderful athletes being challenged with the utmost complexity: multi-variable complex "pro-style" football...with no game plan..just react to the massively multi-variable equation on the fly. Why not add a layer of complexity at QB?? Then you get a different cadence on every set. Wow. First rule of holes: quit digging!!

 

[Jimbeaux]

Further note on the QB situation: we need to drop the exotic pro-style passing game that is clearly not working. Sadly, Lucas Johnson is hurt for the Temple game. He's the best runner we've had in years. It's a shame that the confusion will continue tomorrow, because it is truly our best shot at winning a game this year.
Uncertainty is deadly in markets and in life. Any good business manager would revert to simplicity at this point. We should nominate Johnson as THE quarterback, and get back to "3 yards and a cloud of dust". Sadly, that is not in Collins' nature. He's known as "the master of mayhem". Now it's OUR mayhem.

 

[yeti92]

Sadly, Lucas Johnson is hurt for the Temple game. He's the best runner we've had in years... We should nominate Johnson as THE quarterback, and get back to "3 yards and a cloud of dust".

Have you watched any of the games, or looked at any stats at all before formulating this opinion? Not only is he not the best runner we've had in years, he's the third best runner of quarterbacks we've played this season.

 

[stech81]

Sadly, Lucas Johnson is hurt for the Temple game. He's the best runner we've had in years.

You lost me he is the best runner we have had? One of us has not watch the first 3 games.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Well, if Lucas is out for tomorrow and if Graham is still at least somewhat incapacitated by his foot injury, then we may finally see one QB in there for sustained drives.....and a probable win.

 

[chewybaka]

Well, if Lucas is out for tomorrow and if Graham is still at least somewhat incapacitated by his foot injury, then we may finally see one QB in there for sustained drives.....and a probable win.

By accident vs. by design...