Roof

[Jmonty71]

Read the article about 4* DT TK Chimedza I linked above.

Again... I said "most"... 4 and 5 star level recruits. There are some that have enough common sense and strong family background to understand the NFL is not promised.

But, goes back to what I was saying... Roof.. Do you think he is getting recruits because of what he did 15 years ago or is he signing them because of what he is doing now? My argument is, most kids today, could care less what Roof did 15 years ago. Just like most kids could care less what Paul Johnson, Dabo Swinney or Nick Saban did 15 years ago. It's about what they are doing now.

I understand building relationships. I understand that you can use school history, as a tool. I understand that you can talk yourself up and say what an awesome player, you were. I understand all that. However; to the kids today... They just want to play, get an education and get an opportunity. Whether that opportunity be, make it to the NFL or an opportunity to just be on the field. Each kid has their own definition of was success is.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Question for the "We need to keep Roof for his recruiting" crowd:

So if Roof should be kept for his recruiting, don't you see the problem if you blame the kids for not being good enough on game days? Can't have it both ways. The SAs that are getting blamed for not being good enough on game days are the exact same kids Roof recruited and being used as the reason he shouldn't be fired.

To a point. To me, the question is not are we improving, as we are, but how fast are we improving. We can make an argument that the improvements are not coming rapidly enough, and I can understand the merits of that argument. It is my opinion that we wait this out a little longer and continue to let CTR bring up the overall talent level and keep improving the D. I can accept a minor setback if the overall trend is upward. I just see little value in scrapping CTR just to scrap CTR. If the D fails to consolidate on gains made next year, then we might need to hold a discussion on the future of CTR at GT. I think we'll see more improvement, but that's just me.

Bear in mind also, that this was CTRs first senior class. This D is now solely his, with no former Groh holdovers.

 

[Jmonty71]

And when the eff has Tech landed a 5* athlete. Recruiters and programs live and die by the ability of the staff to establish relationships with SAs. What you're trying to talk about are the 1% of kids who actually MIGHT make it to the NFL and conveniently ignore the 99% of SAs that make up college rosters. It's not a matter of what happened 13-15 years ago it's a matter of how the SAs relate to the coach that is recruiting him. SAs commit to a coach in the VAST majority of cases. Why do you think PJ and other coaches tell these young men to commit to a school rather than a coach as that coach might not be there for the SAs time at school? If you don't believe me reach out to @flea77 or @Coachbraun72 . Oh and IF your friend and his son are in contact with agents he has forfeited his NCAA eligibility and if you don't relay that to his coaches and the NCAA you are complicit in the shady side of recruiting.

Well... I understand that these kids "should" forfeit eligibility. But, it happens. Reggie Bush, classic example. Cam Newton... Etc.... It happens more than you think.

 

[RonJohn]

I think the issue isn't understanding it but having enough film time and practice repetitions to make it second nature. This applies to the coaches too. They need time to watch practice film, but that may not be possible if they have to devote time to developing game plans, watching recruiting film, and doing whatever else it is they have to do.

In a Jeff Schultz podcast, CPJ said that the issue with Groh was that the players had to spend an extensive amount of time watching film to be able to execute the system. I don't think he said exactly how much time, but he did say that it was affecting their ability to maintain course work. In the NFL, players can spend 60-80 hours a week practicing/working out/watching film. In college, and GT in particular, it would be very difficult for a player to have 20 hours of organized FB activity, 4-8 hours of workouts, 12-16 hours of class, homework, and then add 15-20+ hours of film study. That would be 60+ hours before adding study and homework. It wasn't that they weren't smart enough to understand Groh, it was that they didn't have NFL player's time to spend on football.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

For those who doubt Roof's ability to recruit, check out this article about Daryl Smith coming back to get his degree after a 13 year NFL career. He credits his relationship with Roof as one of the major factors for choosing Tech over his childhood team FSU and the dwags.

"That was a process, the recruiting process. I had a lot of offers, recruited by pretty much everybody and it ended up coming down to Georgia, Florida State and Tech, and just looking at everything -- I grew up a FSU fan, but it just wasn't the right fit," Smith said.

"I had a great relationship with [Georgia Tech defensive coordinator] Ted Roof, and we were on the way up [as a program]. It was the best fit for me education-wise, football-wise, coming to Atlanta. It was an awesome decision, the best decision I made."

http://www.ramblinwreck.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120517aaa.html

This quote should be up on the wall in the Edge Center. Similar quotes from the likes of Calvin Johnson, Demarius Thomas, Adam Gotsis, Michael Johnson, Morgan Burnett, Derrick Morgan, etc should be up on the wall in bold letters, too.

 

[Jmonty71]

Question for the "We need to keep Roof for his recruiting" crowd:

So if Roof should be kept for his recruiting, don't you see the problem if you blame the kids for not being good enough on game days? Can't have it both ways. The SAs that are getting blamed for not being good enough on game days are the exact same kids Roof recruited and being used as the reason he shouldn't be fired.

Roof is a decent recruiter. Never argued that. He had brought some solid talent to GT. That I admit. My issue is, I don't think he can coach, that well. He can recruit much better than he can coach, IMO.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Do you think he is getting recruits because of what he did 15 years ago or is he signing them because of what he is doing now

Yes. I think both are correct, and not mutually exclusive.

Also, If he was signing guys like Smith 17 years ago, and guys like Chimedza now, then are you really going to continue arguing that he's not a good recruiter? It would seem to follow, that with the evidence cited, that the recruiting results are there regardless of the date, so I am not sure where your complaint about the time difference has real merit.

 

[Jmonty71]

To a point. To me, the question is not are we improving, as we are, but how fast are we improving. We can make an argument that the improvements are not coming rapidly enough, and I can understand the merits of that argument. It is my opinion that we wait this out a little longer and continue to let CTR bring up the overall talent level and keep improving the D. I can accept a minor setback if the overall trend is upward. I just see little value in scrapping CTR just to scrap CTR. If the D fails to consolidate on gains made next year, then we might need to hold a discussion on the future of CTR at GT. I think we'll see more improvement, but that's just me.

Bear in mind also, that this was CTRs first senior class. This D is now solely his, with no former Groh holdovers.

This is true... I expected better from the senior class. That is my biggest issue. Do I think we'll slide next year? Yes.. However; the offense will be better, so it will not be as noticeable.

 

[OldJacketFan]

Well... I understand that these kids "should" forfeit eligibility. But, it happens. Reggie Bush, classic example. Cam Newton... Etc.... It happens more than you think.

Not a matter of "should", if you have first hand knowledge and withhold it then you're complicit. You made the statement, have you relayed the information to his coaches and NCAA?

 

[Jmonty71]

Yes. I think both are correct, and not mutually exclusive.

Also, If he was signing guys like Smith 17 years ago, and guys like Chimedza now, then are you really going to continue arguing that he's not a good recruiter? It would seem to follow, that with the evidence cited, that the recruiting results are there regardless of the date, so I am not sure where your complaint about the time difference has real merit.

I never said he was a horrible recruiter. I think he recruits decent. Not the greatest thing, next to sliced bread, but decent. GT lacks good recruiters, IMO. I don't think he is a good DC. That is where my issue starts. I had doubts about Roof, as a recruiter... But, he has shown, he can bring talent to the table.

 

[Techster]

To a point. To me, the question is not are we improving, as we are, but how fast are we improving. We can make an argument that the improvements are not coming rapidly enough, and I can understand the merits of that argument. It is my opinion that we wait this out a little longer and continue to let CTR bring up the overall talent level and keep improving the D. I can accept a minor setback if the overall trend is upward. I just see little value in scrapping CTR just to scrap CTR. If the D fails to consolidate on gains made next year, then we might need to hold a discussion on the future of CTR at GT. I think we'll see more improvement, but that's just me.

Bear in mind also, that this was CTRs first senior class. This D is now solely his, with no former Groh holdovers.

By year 3, coaches should have enough of "their guys" in the system to make an impact. Roof is beyond that, IMO.

I do think that this year is the best job Roof has done since he's been here, and the more talented players are filtering in from the last 2 recruiting classes. The DL talent has improved. The problem next year becomes we lose most of our secondary and will need to break in new starters there, but the guys replacing the seniors are physically more talented. Personally, I'm OK with keeping Roof next season. It should be his most talented defense. We'll see how he does, and it should tell us all what kind of DC Roof is.

 

[Jmonty71]

Not a matter of "should", if you have first hand knowledge and withhold it then you're complicit. You made the statement, have you relayed the information to his coaches and NCAA?

Did I relay that info to the NCAA? no... It's not his fault that some slimy talent agent knocked on their door. The agents was asked to leave, so why would it be an issue? Point is, he had someone knock on his door.

 

[OldJacketFan]

Did I relay that info to the NCAA? no... It's not his fault that some slimy talent agent knocked on their door. The agents was asked to leave, so why would it be an issue? Point is, he had someone knock on his door.

Changing your story now?????

Heck... a friend of mine has a highly talented son. He had agents talking to him in his Freshman year.

So which is it? Knocking on the door or talking to him?

 

[Jmonty71]

Just because they talked to him, does not mean they had a conversation. Not to mention, the scouts at the games.

You took the talking to him, out of context. I did not mean it, as they family opened the door to listen and make agreements. But, fact is.. it happens and not all families know to push those guys away.

 

[OldJacketFan]

Just because they talked to him, does not mean they had a conversation. Not to mention, the scouts at the games.

You took the talking to him, out of context. I did not mean it, as they family opened the door to listen and make agreements. But, fact is.. it happens and not all families know to push those guys away.

??? that implies a conversation and I go back to what you posted He had agents talking to him in his Freshman year. I guess now you're walking everything back?

And now it's other families as well? First hand knowledge or hyperbole? You spoke as if you had first hand knowledge, now oh it was a "drive by". What you originally posted was a serious, eligibility forfeiting activity for your "friend" son. You might want to be a bit more careful with your hyperbole.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

By year 3, coaches should have enough of "their guys" in the system to make an impact. Roof is beyond that, IMO.

I do think that this year is the best job Roof has done since he's been here, and the more talented players are filtering in from the last 2 recruiting classes. The DL talent has improved. The problem next year becomes we lose most of our secondary and will need to break in new starters there, but the guys replacing the seniors are physically more talented. Personally, I'm OK with keeping Roof next season. It should be his most talented defense. We'll see how he does, and it should tell us all what kind of DC Roof is.

If this were a factory school, I'd agree. However, as we don't generally get high 4* talent ready to start day 1, we have to spend more time developing our players. So, seeing the major progress this year doesn't seem as slow to me as to some here. As for the secondary, we lose Durham, Austin, Austin and Griffin. AJ Gray comes back for his senior year. Lamont Simmons is back at the other CB spot, and we have Kerr, Tre Swilling, Campbell and others ready to jump in. Most of these were higher rated recruits than the ones that are leaving, so while we will miss a little in the experience department, we shouldn't slide to far. DT looks good, but losing both of our DEs has me more worried than the losses in the secondary. If our DL can improve next year, I really like where I think this D is heading.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

You might want to be a bit more careful with your hyperbole.

Message boards dedicated to college sports teams have a tendency to develop what I like to call hyperbolic incontinence. It seems to erupt without warning, in spite of all efforts to hold it at bay, and generally makes a huge mess of the arguments.

 

[ATL1]

I liked Groh's defense conceptually but its execution was not providing results. I wish he would have simplified and made it more attacking.

Roof isn't going anywhere anytime soon. He does need to have better strategy and would say better coaching especially on the Dline & secondary. I suspect some coaches will go and some more coaching staff will be hired.

Roof's defense isn't complex in anyway. From recruiting it looks like the defense will be Morpheus using players that can play multiple positions or be position less. With that type of defense TCU has a style with a similar model.

 

[UgaBlows]

In a Jeff Schultz podcast, CPJ said that the issue with Groh was that the players had to spend an extensive amount of time watching film to be able to execute the system. I don't think he said exactly how much time, but he did say that it was affecting their ability to maintain course work. In the NFL, players can spend 60-80 hours a week practicing/working out/watching film. In college, and GT in particular, it would be very difficult for a player to have 20 hours of organized FB activity, 4-8 hours of workouts, 12-16 hours of class, homework, and then add 15-20+ hours of film study. That would be 60+ hours before adding study and homework. It wasn't that they weren't smart enough to understand Groh, it was that they didn't have NFL player's time to spend on football.

This in a nutshell is one of our biggest handicaps. Our student-athletes do not have the time to dedicate to football that kids going to factories do.

 

[Jmonty71]

I liked Groh's defense conceptually but its execution was not providing results. I wish he would have simplified and made it more attacking.

Roof isn't going anywhere anytime soon. He does need to have better strategy and would say better coaching especially on the Dline & secondary. I suspect some coaches will go and some more coaching staff will be hired.

Roof's defense isn't complex in anyway. From recruiting it looks like the defense will be Morpheus using players that can play multiple positions or be position less. With that type of defense TCU has a style with a similar model.

Honestly.... I prefer the 4-3 to the 3-4.. Just a personal thing. I guess it's having that old fashioned bone crushing MLB, along with 2 studs at DE. We had that in high school, mixed with the 5-0, we ran against run happy teams. I feel that the 3-4 places more strain on the LBs, than almost any other defense. Just because the LBs are responsible, for so much. I am not too sure we are staffed properly for a well ran 4-3. I think we are lacking that great inside tackling of the MLB and the DE's are well....non existent. I think Roof is aware of this. But, you can't just magically make great players appear.