QB Situation

Week 3: Who will lead the first offensive series for GT?

  • Lucas Johnson

    Votes: 42 34.7%
  • Tobias Oliver

    Votes: 12 9.9%
  • James Graham

    Votes: 67 55.4%

  • Total voters
    121
  • Poll closed .

The Rev.

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
90
In one sense, I want to say, "Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger." :)
I understand this A-T-L approach goes against the grain for some.
Collins stressed it tonight. OC-CDP said something similar a week or two ago.
I think this is how it is going to be, at least for awhile.
Personally, I'm fine with it. I'm going to be very supportive of these guys in what they want to do. Let's see how it goes.
 

bishopbee

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
168
At the least, CGC's explanation about it adding another factor to the permutations a defensive play caller has to consider appeals to the mind of the engineer.
 

alentrekin

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
876
Location
California
Not to be a jerk.. But it would appear that TO was inserted to move the entire O. As the three plays with LJ at QB before he was inserted was a pass for a 2yd loss...a QB run for 1 yd and a pass for 3 yds..the best play before TO was inserted to move the offense was a penalty that gave the team a first down.
You arent being a jerk. I am just hand checking you. You typically post with lotsa enthusiasm and seem like a big supporter and fan, but I think you should slow your roll when you start running the inverted veer with your facts, and promote processing kids who recovered from injury. Of course, you don't have to, and I'm glad I am on a board where we can talk without firing all over the place.

On the football side, I agree with a fair amount of what you said. I have been a JG guy for a while, and have to assume that, unfortunately, JG ran with the Cs at least in part because of his eligibility status. They might have been smart not to put him with the As if there was a chance he would be ineligible. They also knew that Clemson was a longshot, we had to control TOP and force turnovers. So there was no reason to start with the highest risk option, and plenty of reason to think that TO could move the ball. Looking back at the film, he and JP did move the ball. If it weren't for some costly gaffes, we would have been about where A&M was this weekend: totally outmatched but not a million points down. Unlike you (and maybe most on here) I have liked the game planning, but not all the calls and execution. I think they must have thought that LJ could do about what the Wisconsin QB did -- hit open underneath stuff and screens, get everyone set up, hand it off and maybe hit one down the seam when needed. It seemed like he didn't read the check downs, was inaccurate on everything outside of the box, did not have his eyes up when the pocket changed, and could not beat them with his legs. If I am dissapointed in anything with CDP, it's his evaluation of LJ as the #1, but in his defense he has never said that and has been pretty clear that he wants a #1 to emerge.

Like everyone, I'm confused by the counting difficulties in the swinging gate, but meh. We haven't lost one that we should have won...yet.

As it is, the 3QB stuff seems like three subsections of the playbook, and we seem to be tipping our tendencies in a bad way. Similarly, I don't buy CGC's notion that it makes us difficult to prepare for; I don't think he does either. It's not like you are forcing them to prep for the 3-0 and the Air Raid and a downhill/PA scheme. The sets and other personnel are all the same, it's just that 2/3 of the decision tree gets foreclosed by who is in at QB. That will be even more true once the surprise factor is gone. I am not against multiQB in theory, and beyond scheme, the real challenge is that they may all be limited in the same way -- they cannot operate a pro route tree at this point. That is just an assumption with Graham, since from what I have seen, he has not made too many misreads, and when he does, he makes them at full speed.

I am hopeful for an O with James mostly at QB and TO almost always in the package. This makes it harder to predict our plays, and if JG can throw and run, then the whole playbook is available. LJ is a competent backup and we know that he could run a similar offense to JG, but without some of the explosive potential. So we could install something with JG and LJ as QB and TO as QBX. That seems like an interesting "innovation" that I frankly think is forced by our roster. I would start with a base formation of JG in pistol with TO at deep pistol and JP as the sidearm, but we'll see..
 

LongforDodd

LatinxBreakfastTacos
Messages
3,177
Everyone ought to understand that Geoff has no intention of building a program, long term, with this type of mindset in regards to his QB. Right now, he’s still trying to do something that’s relatively unprecedented in modern D1 football and trying to do it at GT. I believe he’s going to cut his QB choices down to two very soon, roll the dice with the other two for the rest of the year while giving most of the snaps to one, and then hope that the clear No 1 steps up either by the end of this year or next.
 

steebu

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
625
I get the feeling we might see Graham start this Saturday. Tobias got the opener, Lucas got the second game, why not Graham for the third? This way he can really evaluate how everyone is doing. Hopefully he'll have enough to pick a guy and go, although I get the feeling he may stick with the 3-man rotation even if he does pick a starter.
 

Technut1990

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
960
Everyone ought to understand that Geoff has no intention of building a program, long term, with this type of mindset in regards to his QB. Right now, he’s still trying to do something that’s relatively unprecedented in modern D1 football and trying to do it at GT. I believe he’s going to cut his QB choices down to two very soon, roll the dice with the other two for the rest of the year while giving most of the snaps to one, and then hope that the clear No 1 steps up either by the end of this year or next.

I hope you are correct but If he can do this, and pick the right 1 or 2, with the small sample size he is seeing from all of them then he is indeed the right coach. As it is we are seeing that we run when TO is in, short to medium passes with LJ and mid to long passes with Graham. None of them are working from the same selection of plays.

How in the world do you decide who is who when you don’t see comparative situational placement ?

Could TO hit someone on a 40 yard post ? Can LJ run run an effective QB sweep, can Graham hit a TE over the middle ?
 

Technut1990

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
960
I get the feeling we might see Graham start this Saturday. Tobias got the opener, Lucas got the second game, why not Graham for the third? This way he can really evaluate how everyone is doing. Hopefully he'll have enough to pick a guy and go, although I get the feeling he may stick with the 3-man rotation even if he does pick a starter.

I dont think it matters who starts for comparative reasons it matters if they are getting the same play calls
 

GTFLETCH

Banned
Messages
2,639
You arent being a jerk. I am just hand checking you. You typically post with lotsa enthusiasm and seem like a big supporter and fan, but I think you should slow your roll when you start running the inverted veer with your facts, and promote processing kids who recovered from injury. Of course, you don't have to, and I'm glad I am on a board where we can talk without firing all over the place.

On the football side, I agree with a fair amount of what you said. I have been a JG guy for a while, and have to assume that, unfortunately, JG ran with the Cs at least in part because of his eligibility status. They might have been smart not to put him with the As if there was a chance he would be ineligible. They also knew that Clemson was a longshot, we had to control TOP and force turnovers. So there was no reason to start with the highest risk option, and plenty of reason to think that TO could move the ball. Looking back at the film, he and JP did move the ball. If it weren't for some costly gaffes, we would have been about where A&M was this weekend: totally outmatched but not a million points down. Unlike you (and maybe most on here) I have liked the game planning, but not all the calls and execution. I think they must have thought that LJ could do about what the Wisconsin QB did -- hit open underneath stuff and screens, get everyone set up, hand it off and maybe hit one down the seam when needed. It seemed like he didn't read the check downs, was inaccurate on everything outside of the box, did not have his eyes up when the pocket changed, and could not beat them with his legs. If I am dissapointed in anything with CDP, it's his evaluation of LJ as the #1, but in his defense he has never said that and has been pretty clear that he wants a #1 to emerge.

Like everyone, I'm confused by the counting difficulties in the swinging gate, but meh. We haven't lost one that we should have won...yet.

As it is, the 3QB stuff seems like three subsections of the playbook, and we seem to be tipping our tendencies in a bad way. Similarly, I don't buy CGC's notion that it makes us difficult to prepare for; I don't think he does either. It's not like you are forcing them to prep for the 3-0 and the Air Raid and a downhill/PA scheme. The sets and other personnel are all the same, it's just that 2/3 of the decision tree gets foreclosed by who is in at QB. That will be even more true once the surprise factor is gone. I am not against multiQB in theory, and beyond scheme, the real challenge is that they may all be limited in the same way -- they cannot operate a pro route tree at this point. That is just an assumption with Graham, since from what I have seen, he has not made too many misreads, and when he does, he makes them at full speed.

I am hopeful for an O with James mostly at QB and TO almost always in the package. This makes it harder to predict our plays, and if JG can throw and run, then the whole playbook is available. LJ is a competent backup and we know that he could run a similar offense to JG, but without some of the explosive potential. So we could install something with JG and LJ as QB and TO as QBX. That seems like an interesting "innovation" that I frankly think is forced by our roster. I would start with a base formation of JG in pistol with TO at deep pistol and JP as the sidearm, but we'll see..
Great post....Spot On
 

LongforDodd

LatinxBreakfastTacos
Messages
3,177
I hope you are correct but If he can do this, and pick the right 1 or 2, with the small sample size he is seeing from all of them then he is indeed the right coach. As it is we are seeing that we run when TO is in, short to medium passes with LJ and mid to long passes with Graham. None of them are working from the same selection of plays.

How in the world do you decide who is who when you don’t see comparative situational placement ?

Could TO hit someone on a 40 yard post ? Can LJ run run an effective QB sweep, can Graham hit a TE over the middle ?
I'm believing that this is a four week tryout akin to the NFL's preseason. Geoff has to settle on some one to ride out the end of the schedule with.
 

chris975d

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
903
Listening to GT:60 this evening, CGC said, "If I've got three QBs who have worked hard all week to earn the right to be Above The Line players for the upcoming game, then why would I not play all three of them in that game?"

CGC is clearly laying out that the coaches' mindset regarding who plays is very different from the typical 'first string, second string, third string' football mindset.

Yeah I keyed in on the same thing. He added something to the effect of...he’s very passionate about this method/way. My gut reaction is that I don’t like that at QB, but I did interpret it to be that he has no issues not settling on a definitive QB1
 

malak05

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
270
I get the feeling we might see Graham start this Saturday. Tobias got the opener, Lucas got the second game, why not Graham for the third? This way he can really evaluate how everyone is doing. Hopefully he'll have enough to pick a guy and go, although I get the feeling he may stick with the 3-man rotation even if he does pick a starter.

This won't be pure good gauge on ability since it is Citadel BUT for Graham I'm more concerned about seeing just how far along he is in passing and making sound decisions. If he delivering the ball on time and to WRs hands and also not turning a bunch of positive plays into Negative by trying to do too much then good news as his overall talent gives me hope he could be the closest we have to a all around QB outside of Yates.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,892
This also bothers me. If Dodd had gone by practise results, Lotheridge would never have started. Dodd considered Stan the Man Gann would be All American based on practise. But after 3 or 4 games in 1960, when freshman Lotheridge would pull the game out in the second half, Gann never started another game. Lotheridge never looked good in practise according to his teammates that I knew.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01RD using Tapatalk
Freshmen couldn't play back then. Must have been a sophomore. I don't remember redshirting being used back then by Dodd. May have but don't remember it. Those were the days of freshman teams that played a short schedule.
 

jandrews

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
275
Still think a lot of what you see from the QBs is dealing with a byproduct of the OL performance. They are working hard out there. Just one miscue and the whole play gets blown up. For instance, how many snaps did we have off target causing the QB to just scramble rather than execute the play as designed. Or JG on the opening drive of the second half was getting a little momentum on offense. Couple bad plays back to back and we have to punt. One of these being an OL missing a block and JG getting sacked pretty far back. I saw improvement with execution. We have got to stop with the miscues.
 

bke1984

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,424
Listening to GT:60 this evening, CGC said, "If I've got three QBs who have worked hard all week to earn the right to be Above The Line players for the upcoming game, then why would I not play all three of them in that game?"

CGC is clearly laying out that the coaches' mindset regarding who plays is very different from the typical 'first string, second string, third string' football mindset.
I hear what he’s saying, but I truly believe if he does this with his QBs for his entire tenure at Tech we will not be very successful on offense. Just my opinion.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,580
hope you are correct but If he can do this, and pick the right 1 or 2, with the small sample size he is seeing from all of them then he is indeed the right coach. As it is we are seeing that we run when TO is in, short to medium passes with LJ and mid to long passes with Graham. None of them are working from the same selection of plays.

How in the world do you decide who is who when you don’t see comparative situational placement ?

All 3 are running parts of what we eventually want a QB to be able to do. I'd imagine whoever is most effective doing the part they know will get more playing time and the offense will be focused around that aspect while they then develop the other areas. For instance, I don't think we need to see LJ and Graham that extensively to know that TO is the best choice for that.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,628
Number matter- these 3 guys were backups to an AB who could not pass. Before clemson these 3 had almost 0 game minutes where they were asked to pass. (The new offense is based on some credible passing threat. )
During that time their passing skills were not valued or greatly devloped for this offense.

Practice under cgc has shown that they all have potential but need development.

He is being fair to give them in game experience.

But when he picks one guy, what is the estimated time before we hear that cgc picked the wrong one - shame on cgc.
The cgc shade crew wakes up each day to look for something to blame cgc. So I will go first for the cgc shade crew.

In a xx days after Cgc picks yyy as starting qb.

" He took too long and he clearly is reaching in his pick. With this type head coaching who could have confidence. "

Today is 9/10 . I am the winner of he picked the wrong qb . Let the count down for second begin. (This post has been made in hopes of the qb getting to make it to half time before shade)
 

tsrich

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
787
That's fine and all because it gives players hope that they could win the position for the week, but I still feel like at the end of the day it hurts us in the long wrong. It cuts down the snaps and in game experience between the QBs which they desperately need.

This is my big concern. 3 QBs getting first team snaps in practice is a lot less reps for each.
 

stech81

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,882
Location
Woodstock Georgia
Well there is one way to look at it with him playing all 3 , when and IF he does pick one it may be hard to say the backup should be playing cause we would have seen all 3. Who am I kidding this is Tech so one would still complain it's in our blood.
 
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