QB battle

Josh H

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
390
See the above stats - there was hardly a difference in our record between high turnover games and zero turnover games at the QB position.

Love Justin Thomas and think he's the best player we had the position. But I had waaaaay too good a view of the back-to-back fumbles returned for touchdowns vs. Miami last year. It *definitely* made a difference in that game.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,211
Why are arguing against a QB that no longer plays on our team? JT is gone and he accomplished huge things, why raise critiques against the guy? Even in the context of Mathew Jordan (or whoever starts), JT is a non-issue because he's gone.
I'm not. It's an example of what is likely to happen with JJ whose game most resembles JT, minus the passing acumen. Heck, he even did it in the Spring game. I like JJ a lot, but you have to weigh the down side with the up.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
One should never downplay the huge factor turnovers have in games. What would our record in '14 have been if our D hadn't gotten so many?

I don't really care what our win loss record was when JT had one, two, or more turnovers in a game. That's only looking at a sliver of a piece of the pie. What was the turnover margin in those games? How many led to TDs scored by the D, or set up short fields for easy scores? Who were we playing in those games? Because the better your competition, the more those turnovers matter.

Ball security is huge. And should be a huge focus for every one of our QBs.
 

Rock

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
615
Much rather have a QB how has higher playmaking ability even if it's at the cots of slightly more turnovers.

Why would want a player at any position that is going to turn it over more than the next guy?

5 dynamic plays are killed by 1 turnover that results in points. Can't give the opposition anything.
 

tech_wreck47

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,670
Why would want a player at any position that is going to turn it over more than the next guy?

5 dynamic plays are killed by 1 turnover that results in points. Can't give the opposition anything.
Someone gave the stats of JT and how he turned the ball over. I'll take JT any game of the year. But that's not to say MJ can't have some very good years himself.
 

Silk3

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
918
Why are arguing against a QB that no longer plays on our team? JT is gone and he accomplished huge things, why raise critiques against the guy? Even in the context of Mathew Jordan (or whoever starts), JT is a non-issue because he's gone.
Every thread that mentions JT
 

tech_wreck47

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,670
Ball security is number 1. Period. It's a prerequisite. Everything else comes after. The boys competing surely know this, funny how some posters don't.
I think some people's argument is that JT wasn't that great at ball security, and others could have been better yet he was the starter because of his play making ability. Not saying I agree.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,211
I think some people's argument is that JT wasn't that great at ball security, and others could have been better yet he was the starter because of his play making ability. Not saying I agree.
My comment was not in reference to JT per se, but just as a basic stipulation coaches have, among many, for choosing a starting quarterback. It applies directly to our current situation and is a major determinant in the outcome.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,578
Why would want a player at any position that is going to turn it over more than the next guy?

It's like you completely ignored what you quoted.

"Much rather have a QB how has higher playmaking ability even if it's at the cots of slightly more turnovers."

I bolded the answer to your question.

Players aren't single variable issues. It's not just a matter of minimizing turnovers. On offense alone the ability to make big plays is a direct reduction to ball security issues. This is because every time a players cores from 50 or 60 out, that is 50 or 60 yards worth of plays that don't need to be run to get those points. So even if a player has worse ball security on a per play basis, if he can reduce the average number of plays needed to score enough, then it balances out. Furthermore, it doesn't just reduce the chance of turnovers, it reduces the chance of missed blocks, missed reads, dropped passes etc.

Secondly, the relative value in punting, and FGA to an extent, vs turning the ball over is directly related to how good your ST and defense is. The worse your defense is the less value the extra yards from punting is to you. That is actually true for FGs as well. The better your defense is the higher value there is in getting a FG, not relative to TDs but relative to turnovers. In the extremes, if you know your defense will get a stop 100% of the time then punts and FGs are extraordinarily valuable compared to turnovers. If you know your defense will give up a TD 100% of the time then punts hold no value compared to turnovers and FGs hold very little. Obviously no teams operate in the extremes but where a team falls on the spectrum determines how much ball security weighs in.

5 dynamic plays are killed by 1 turnover that results in points.

And 5 dynamic plays probably save your team 20 plays in opportunities for a turnover, missed block, bad read, etc.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,184
In 2008, Nesbitt had that ball on the ground more than the ball boys catching punts during pregame. Jaybo Shaw was actually better with ball security, and also a better technician running our offense. People forget, but there was a mini-controversy on who should be starter in 2008.

But in the end, you know who CPJ played when he was healthy? Nesbitt. Why? Even with the issues Nesbitt had ball security early, and getting by with athleticism over mastery of the offense, CPJ knew sticking with Josh was better for the team in the long run because Nesbitt's long term payoff was higher than Jaybo's. We saw just that in 2009.
 

stech81

Helluva Engineer
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8,864
Location
Woodstock Georgia
I think that no matter what anyone says on here your not going to change someone's opinion .
( hence why I'll wait to see you CPJ picks and know he has a reason for the one he picks) and most on here will still want the backup .
 
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