Possible D Staff

[vamosjackets]

Let's hope that history repeats itself. When Roof left before to go to Duke and O'Leary brought in Edsall, the defense saw improvement right away. Maybe it's just my gold colored glasses, but I thought all year that we had pretty good talent on defense. They just never put it together for an entire game unless the other team really stunk offensively. For several years now, it seemed like we either got a three and out or the other team scored. The reduced number of turnovers since 2014 has been a back breaker.

The only reason I can see that Roof would not change his style of defense even after CPJ told him to was that he is like CPJ. He's going to win or die with his scheme. He must have had that much faith in his methods. Glad to see the change.

One correction: Edsall was before Roof. Edsall '98. Roof 99-00.

And, I agree with your second paragraph. If you're telling your DC or OC to run something they're not used to running, that's usually not going to work out well. You can't immediately become an expert at something else. Telling Roof to become a pressure-defense guy would be like telling CPJ to become a shotgun spread guy.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Nm

 

[iceeater1969]

One correction: Edsall was before Roof. Edsall '98. Roof 99-00.

And, I agree with your second paragraph. If you're telling your DC or OC to run something they're not used to running, that's usually not going to work out well. You can't immediately become an expert at something else. Telling Roof to become a pressure-defense guy would be like telling CPJ to become a shotgun spread guy.

Couldnt Coach do the run and shoot if he choose too ? I thought he did that in Hawaii? We are lined up like it, save the qb under center.

The Baylor/ osu types really have adde d the run to their spreads.

 

[Lavoisier]

This is maybe the first time CPJ gets his first choice of DC. He's made it work with guys he didn't necessarily think would work but the AD forced the marriage.

 

[vamosjackets]

Couldnt Coach do the run and shoot if he choose too ? I thought he did that in Hawaii? We are lined up like it, save the qb under center.

The Baylor/ osu types really have adde d the run to their spreads.

I think CPJ could run the run-n-shoot, but he chooses not to. Well, to be more accurate, he does run the run-n-shoot but as an attribute of an overall offense rather than as the basis of it. He does it that way because he chooses to. Why does he choose to? Because he thinks that's the best way to do it, the way that makes the most sense to him, the way that will be most effective in winning games. So, if someone were to force him to do otherwise, then he's going against his nature, going against what he believes and what makes sense to him. That's not normally going to turn out well. It would be different it someone were to CONVINCE him to do otherwise, but to FORCE it would not be good in the real of "A house divided against itself" sort of thing.

But, that's a bit of an aside to my original point. My point was that CPJ is not an expert in the shotgun spread (I'm not equating that to the run-n-shoot by any means, which I do think he has expertise in). So, to force him to run something in which he doesn't have as much expertise would be foolish. That point was only as an analogy to forcing a DC to run a pressure-focused defense when that's not what he's ever done nor is it his expertise (or what makes sense to him, or he believes in, etc). Coach Roof knows a lot of defense, the same way CPJ knows a lot of offense, but both are much more knowledgeable in particular offensive/defensive philosophies and how to implement them successfully than they are in others (simply by the nature of reality and human limitation). And, this is how they should be. They shouldn't try to be experts in offenses/defenses that they don't believe are as potent and effective as what they do. Both should look at their results and the results of the rest of the world to evaluate themselves and their philosophies and change (or not) accordingly. IMO, CPJ has a good objective basis to believe in his offense empirically, whereas CTR does not.

 

[vamosjackets]

This is maybe the first time CPJ gets his first choice of DC. He's made it work with guys he didn't necessarily think would work but the AD forced the marriage.

I don't believe that to be the case with Al Groh. I was suspicious of the Wommack and Roof hires because they did not make sense to me based on past results. But, I was extremely excited about the Groh hire. Groh had impressed CPJ in the way his defense defended CPJ's offense and made adjustments to his adjustments, not to mention the impressive resume he had in the NFL as a superbowl winner and whatnot. It looked like we were getting an elite DC hire for a fraction of the cost due to the circumstances, and it looked like Groh had other opportunities even in the pros but just wanted to come here because he was equally impressed with CPJ and thought there might actually be a chance to do great things. I thought the Groh hire had a chance to be a homerun and was a bit disillusioned when it failed.
I am excited about this hire and see it as kind of the antithesis to the Groh hire (no NFL, purely college experience), but also similar in that the resume of past results is darn impressive. If it doesn't turn out, I'll be disillusioned again, and probably resigned to the conclusion that we can't have a good defense under CPJ for intrinsic reasons without some great (and highly improbable) jump in recruiting.

 

[GTFLETCH]

I don't believe that to be the case with Al Groh. I was suspicious of the Wommack and Roof hires because they did not make sense to me based on past results. But, I was extremely excited about the Groh hire. Groh had impressed CPJ in the way his defense defended CPJ's offense and made adjustments to his adjustments, not to mention the impressive resume he had in the NFL as a superbowl winner and whatnot. It looked like we were getting an elite DC hire for a fraction of the cost due to the circumstances, and it looked like Groh had other opportunities even in the pros but just wanted to come here because he was equally impressed with CPJ and thought there might actually be a chance to do great things. I thought the Groh hire had a chance to be a homerun and was a bit disillusioned when it failed.
I am excited about this hire and see it as kind of the antithesis to the Groh hire (no NFL, purely college experience), but also similar in that the resume of past results is darn impressive. If it doesn't turn out, I'll be disillusioned again, and probably resigned to the conclusion that we can't have a good defense under CPJ for intrinsic reasons without some great (and highly improbable) jump in recruiting.

Spot ON....

Article when he was hired..

Tech names former Virginia coach as its new defensive coordinator...
“I think any time you can get a coach the caliber of an Al Groh, it is a tremendous plus for your program,” coach Paul Johnson said. “Al has a great deal of expertise. He is considered one of the top defensive minds in the country and has a record to support it.” “I’m a bottom line kind of guy,” the head coach said. “There’s a lot of ways to get there. I like what we do on offense, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only one you can be successful at. I feel the same way about defense. I want somebody who has a system, who understands it and can be effective. Whether it’s a 3-4, 4-3 or an eight-man front ... can you teach it? That’s the bottom line.
“It’s not what you know, but what you can teach to the guys.”

Link
https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/sp...ginia-coach-as-its-new-defensive-coordinator/

Article when he was fired..

"Just to say it briefly, this circumstance here was the most unprofessional, divisive and negative environment in which I've ever been," Groh said. "To say more would be unprofessional of myself.

"It was just a bad cultural match."
Link
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/1/2/3828426/al-groh-georgia-tech-comments

Again to my point, for whatever reason CPJ and his DC are usually good for 2 years and then it sours... Hope it doesn't repeat!! Maybe This time it will be different!

 

[vamosjackets]

Spot ON....

Article when he was hired..

Tech names former Virginia coach as its new defensive coordinator...
“I think any time you can get a coach the caliber of an Al Groh, it is a tremendous plus for your program,” coach Paul Johnson said. “Al has a great deal of expertise. He is considered one of the top defensive minds in the country and has a record to support it.” “I’m a bottom line kind of guy,” the head coach said. “There’s a lot of ways to get there. I like what we do on offense, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only one you can be successful at. I feel the same way about defense. I want somebody who has a system, who understands it and can be effective. Whether it’s a 3-4, 4-3 or an eight-man front ... can you teach it? That’s the bottom line.
“It’s not what you know, but what you can teach to the guys.”

Link
https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/sp...ginia-coach-as-its-new-defensive-coordinator/

Article when he was fired..

"Just to say it briefly, this circumstance here was the most unprofessional, divisive and negative environment in which I've ever been," Groh said. "To say more would be unprofessional of myself.

"It was just a bad cultural match."
Link
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/1/2/3828426/al-groh-georgia-tech-comments

Again to my point, for whatever reason CPJ and his DC are usually good for 2 years and then it sours... Hope it doesn't repeat!! Maybe This time it will be different!

To add ore perspective, it doesn't appear that was the case when he was at Navy. I think he had his DC there the entire 7-8 years. The defenses there weren't good, but it seems CPJ didn't think the DC himself was the problem and believed that guy was doing the best that could be done with what he had at the Academy. I think at GT, he thought the defenses had the manpower to be better and that the DC himself was not leading them to the success of their potential.
I don't know about GSU, I just know his defenses at GSU were very good, so he probably had a good relationship with his DC there.

 

[ilovetheoption]

I don't believe that to be the case with Al Groh. I was suspicious of the Wommack and Roof hires because they did not make sense to me based on past results. But, I was extremely excited about the Groh hire. Groh had impressed CPJ in the way his defense defended CPJ's offense and made adjustments to his adjustments, not to mention the impressive resume he had in the NFL as a superbowl winner and whatnot. It looked like we were getting an elite DC hire for a fraction of the cost due to the circumstances, and it looked like Groh had other opportunities even in the pros but just wanted to come here because he was equally impressed with CPJ and thought there might actually be a chance to do great things. I thought the Groh hire had a chance to be a homerun and was a bit disillusioned when it failed.
I am excited about this hire and see it as kind of the antithesis to the Groh hire (no NFL, purely college experience), but also similar in that the resume of past results is darn impressive. If it doesn't turn out, I'll be disillusioned again, and probably resigned to the conclusion that we can't have a good defense under CPJ for intrinsic reasons without some great (and highly improbable) jump in recruiting.

+1, and I'm a cpj guy. If this doesn't work out, there probably is something to the "cpjs offense hamstrings the defense" reasoning that I have rejected up till now.

 

[Jacket in Dairyland]

Like most any type organization, the guy at the top sets the tone. I see CPJ as an aggressive , bit of a gambler. I don't remember Groh as well , but Roof seemed to project and inspire about as much focus and intensity as a bowl of oatmeal. Too focused on containment , but also not pressuring opponents enough for them to make a mistake. Early in the season that philosophy might work better, but as the season wears on, offenses get in sync more and generally make fewer unforced errors. Our D seemed to be HOPING for unforced errors , and less about causing them. The fact that Woody coached a defense that made that many interceptions tells me they were always looking to FORCE an error, not sitting back just waiting for the tipped pass to come their way. Aggressive defense is an attitude, a state of mind ,a way of sizing up your opponent , looking to exploit weakness , either during preparation for the game , or as it develops. This is what I'm thinking ( hoping?) Woody and his new staff will bring.n

 

[Lavoisier]

The guy at the top isn't CPJ though. He's practically been on his knees begging for things like a locker room, assistant salaries, shadow staff, recruiting help, etc. GT isn't like other schools, we (the athletic department) do not care to support the football team. The head football coach doesn't get what they want, they make do. There are lists out there about how we're behind even Duke in the conference.

 

[iceeater1969]

+1, and I'm a cpj guy. If this doesn't work out, there probably is something to the "cpjs offense hamstrings the defense" reasoning that I have rejected up till now.

I thought Groh was a great hire. Son had seen Groh at dallas coaching clinic son said a sure thing to go great with cpj s offense. Then roof was to be the fix. Both groh and roof had been successful at big time programs. They both got extra time to get their system in. Now we have a guy who has sucess in a lower tier conference. I hope he dosn't think his new cycle will last 4-5 years.

 

[tech_wreck47]

I thought Groh was a great hire. Son had seen Groh at dallas coaching clinic son said a sure thing to go great with cpj s offense. Then roof was to be the fix. Both groh and roof had been successful at big time programs. They both got extra time to get their system in. Now we have a guy who has sucess in a lower tier conference. I hope he dosn't think his new cycle will last 4-5 years.

Nothing against Roof but I haven’t seen that success at the big time program.

 

[Skeptic]

Now the question is who will be the 10th coach. I’ll assume a defensive guy.
CB: Brown
OLB: Woody
DL: Ivey
I’ll assume MAC will coach secondary or ILB so we will need one more guy to coach whatever MAC doesn’t coach.

I really hope the 10th coach can be a top notch recruiter, and maybe ST or maybe MAC could do ST

How's this dilemma: if given the choice for the 10th coach, would you pick a) defense or b) a passing coach?

 

[tech_wreck47]

How's this dilemma: if given the choice for the 10th coach, would you pick a) defense or b) a passing coach?

Defense for sure....imo atleast.

 

[Lavoisier]

I would say right now defense or ST. Candeto and Johnson both work with the QBs so you may run into a "too many cooks" situation. I also think we should give Candeto another season and see what happens. TaQuan made huge strides from third stringer QB to starter. Jay Jones, Lucas Johnson, and KirVonte also made big jumps imo. If Johnson or Marshall stagnate and passing does not improve then I think we should start tinkering, but you've got to give the guy more than one year.

 

[Jacket in Dairyland]

The guy at the top isn't CPJ though. He's practically been on his knees begging for things like a locker room, assistant salaries, shadow staff, recruiting help, etc. GT isn't like other schools, we (the athletic department) do not care to support the football team. The head football coach doesn't get what they want, they make do. There are lists out there about how we're behind even Duke in the conference.

Yeah , I should have said the attitude didn't move down into or past CTR. CPJ has enough fire for several guys , but that hit a roadblock when it came to Roof.

 

[iceeater1969]

Nothing against Roof but I haven’t seen that success at the big time program.

1. psu- lost 4 in first year after paterno. NAVY scored 7. The psu team only lost to ranked teams and their opener. .
2. Auburn - 10 losses in 3 years.
3. Some say he had little to do with record at 1 and 2.
4. In 2012 Coach said he had enough success at 1 2 so I hired him.
5. After a long run at gt, Coach let him find a job.

Looking above:5 says that 4 may have been wrong which means you sir are "now " proven to be very likely correct.

My point is with the last 3 seasons being rated as terrible, good, bad; the offense better be all in if the defense has a dip during the transition. Folks will be adjusted if we have a 18 at all like 17.

I already ike this Woody guy as he is willfully taking a risk by getting he can do well. Coach is at a point that will be remembered in his legacy at gt. He went with safe with Groh and what appeared to be safe with Groh. Now with coach W he is also willfully taking a risk on a guy who never has been at a power 5 team.
I think it is great,. I think we will do well in 18 and if o line is some what good.
If the ol is crisp, we should finish very good.

 

[pbrown520]

Not only has it not worked... We are on our 5th DC (If you count Kelly)!!! I hope Woody will be different, but history tells us after three years with CPJ, the DC relationship often sours.. It is what it is!! However we may be able to make a run in the ACC within the next two years with all the talent we have brought in!

Why would you count Kelley? Why do people keep beating this drum? Kelley was an interim DC for 2 games and left of his own volition - it didn't sound like the relationship had "soured" with Kelley, but if it did it took 5 years or so and not 3.

 

[Lavoisier]

Johnson wanted Kelly and even tried to bring him back this go around. I don't think there's any bad blood between the two. The Wommack thing was also "mutual" and he was asked to stay on in a different role (there's rumors that there was lots of friction between him and the players). Groh was technically the only DC he's fired.