Paul Johnson time frame.

[slugboy]

Honestly to end all arguments. This is it in a nutshell.

1. CPJ runs an offense that kids are actively told to avoid if they want a future in the nfl or to win. (Now is this scheme based or just a rumor that spread like wild fire and it's too far gone to repair?). I firmly believe if CPJ had a tua, or a justin fields with a decent line. We could average 40 points a game. If we mixed in a little shotgun with a true dual threat QB, then possibly the bad label of an TO QB would melt and teams would see that he can lineup under center and shotgun. Also, throw and run. (CPJ has never had this type of true dual threat talent.) Think RG3, Lamar Jackson, Justin Fields, Watson. Again I believe kids were told to avoid this out of ignorance, and now no kid is willing to take a chance to see how it would work. (By now why would a justin fields give up an nfl future for Hope's to be the best option QB tech has. He would possibly give up millions)

2. Academics have played a huge role. Every 4*, 3*, kid can play ball. But not every kid can ball and focus on school. A lot don't go to college to get an education they go as a stepping stone to the NFL, as they have 1 goal. Nfl or bust and be your sales clerk guy at your local retail store. We fail to grab those kids that make a difference on teams like Miami, Clemson, LSU, Alabama. Half their players wouldn't understand how to read their class schedule, let alone take the course.
So what does that mean? We should focus a lot more on recruiting than we have. Not only learning a players skill and academics, but their personalities. We don't have nearly enough resources for our recruiting team. That's been known and shown. Not enough boosters to boost these kids along.

3. CPJ is an enigma of his own demise. He hasn't shown ways to adapt. He has always needed "his" guys. Well it seems he either cannot recruit the kids on offense, or has difficulty fighting that stigma of the TO being horrible for a QBs career. That was the first thing he should of combated. I just feel he was happy with whatever came and learned to deal with what QBs he was able to grab. (I believe he just isn't much of a recruiter) think if you're 16-18 years old and this old white guy comes and tries to recruit you talking about education and how you're a good fit. Compared to these younger coaches who go out and tell the kids about the night life, the perks of being a player on campus, things in that nature.

Here is a question, can players on the team be involved with recruiting? Can they go out with the coach and visit these kids? That may be one way to get a kid in. Think if taquon marshall flies out to a 4* dual threat QBs house for a visit and says how much fun tech is, and how he did well, but believes this kid can be a Tech legend. That he will be remembered for decades. That tech not only needs him, but he wants to pass the torch to this kid as the future of the program.
I feel player involvement would prove fruitful.
Basically I feel CPJ is a little out of touch with today's youth. I'm only 27, and I know I dont know how to talk to a 16-17 yr old kid. They are into some weird things haha.


Just shooting from the hip, but things I've thought about

1. I'm not sure if you need shotgun (though it's an option), as long as you have more play action or RPO. NFL is a passing league now.
2. <skipped>
3. Not about recruiting, but inability to adapt--I can't remember the last time I saw the 4th down "draw them offsides" play work. Also, with pre-snap motion and other tells, how much can the other teams guess what's coming or time the snap? In 2009, you were really worried about CPJ doing something you didn't expect. Now, you expect almost anything he does. I think people know his tendencies, and it hurts in game situations. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so.

 

[ATL1]

Honestly to end all arguments. This is it in a nutshell.

1. CPJ runs an offense that kids are actively told to avoid if they want a future in the nfl or to win. (Now is this scheme based or just a rumor that spread like wild fire and it's too far gone to repair?). I firmly believe if CPJ had a tua, or a justin fields with a decent line. We could average 40 points a game. If we mixed in a little shotgun with a true dual threat QB, then possibly the bad label of an TO QB would melt and teams would see that he can lineup under center and shotgun. Also, throw and run. (CPJ has never had this type of true dual threat talent.) Think RG3, Lamar Jackson, Justin Fields, Watson. Again I believe kids were told to avoid this out of ignorance, and now no kid is willing to take a chance to see how it would work. (By now why would a justin fields give up an nfl future for Hope's to be the best option QB tech has. He would possibly give up millions)

<Partially, the system is limiting for a passing qb & wr. They’re just things that aren’t done much if at all in this offense that is done in NFL systems>

2. Academics have played a huge role. Every 4*, 3*, kid can play ball. But not every kid can ball and focus on school. A lot don't go to college to get an education they go as a stepping stone to the NFL, as they have 1 goal. Nfl or bust and be your sales clerk guy at your local retail store. We fail to grab those kids that make a difference on teams like Miami, Clemson, LSU, Alabama. Half their players wouldn't understand how to read their class schedule, let alone take the course.
So what does that mean? We should focus a lot more on recruiting than we have. Not only learning a players skill and academics, but their personalities. We don't have nearly enough resources for our recruiting team. That's been known and shown. Not enough boosters to boost these kids along.

< I disagree with the disparaging comments on kids, but I do agree with more $$$ into recruiting.>

3. CPJ is an enigma of his own demise. He hasn't shown ways to adapt. He has always needed "his" guys. Well it seems he either cannot recruit the kids on offense, or has difficulty fighting that stigma of the TO being horrible for a QBs career. That was the first thing he should of combated. I just feel he was happy with whatever came and learned to deal with what QBs he was able to grab. (I believe he just isn't much of a recruiter) think if you're 16-18 years old and this old white guy comes and tries to recruit you talking about education and how you're a good fit. Compared to these younger coaches who go out and tell the kids about the night life, the perks of being a player on campus, things in that nature.

Here is a question, can players on the team be involved with recruiting? Can they go out with the coach and visit these kids? That may be one way to get a kid in. Think if taquon marshall flies out to a 4* dual threat QBs house for a visit and says how much fun tech is, and how he did well, but believes this kid can be a Tech legend. That he will be remembered for decades. That tech not only needs him, but he wants to pass the torch to this kid as the future of the program.
I feel player involvement would prove fruitful.
Basically I feel CPJ is a little out of touch with today's youth. I'm only 27, and I know I dont know how to talk to a 16-17 yr old kid. They are into some weird things haha.


Just shooting from the hip, but things I've thought about

*Nail*

 

[ATL1]

1. I'm not sure if you need shotgun (though it's an option), as long as you have more play action or RPO. NFL is a passing league now.
2. <skipped>
3. Not about recruiting, but inability to adapt--I can't remember the last time I saw the 4th down "draw them offsides" play work. Also, with pre-snap motion and other tells, how much can the other teams guess what's coming or time the snap? In 2009, you were really worried about CPJ doing something you didn't expect. Now, you expect almost anything he does. I think people know his tendencies, and it hurts in game situations. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so.

3-15 and putting your 5’11ish qb into a drop back is asinine.

 

[first&ten]

Well, you may be right that I glossed over them, but I didn't ignore them. When I talked about him replacing DC's, I was tacitly speaking about his ownership of the whole team and not just the offense. In my comment at the end, I said that we really need CNW to work out because (as I've said elsewhere) we've got to play well on both sides of the ball to be consistently competitive.

I am sympathetic to your snark, and I also wonder whether there is a negative impact on our D from CPJ focusing his attention on the O. That's why I made my comment about the need for CNW to work out. However, I also think that this complaint against CPJ can be over-done. CPJ reportedly was not able to hire his DC of choice when he first arrived because of finances, hired Groh as a replacement in part because most of his compensation was being paid by UVA, and hired Roof on the cheap initially because of Roof's desire to come back home. Frankly, none of us know for sure how much the AD and finances affected those hires.

In other words, I'm sympathetic to complaints about CPJ with respect to him not fielding a competitive D. I agree that he's responsible for that also. I think that he's shown that he also sees this by his willingness to do what he can to improve that side of the ball also. Even head coaches that are not also offensive coordinators make that decision like when CU replaced Kevin Steele with Venables after the 2011 season. Your comment, "I get that he wants to hire someone to run those phases and forget about them so he can be a glorified OC" seems to me to be simply an ignorant rant. Anyone who pays attention to college football knows that Coordinator hires are a significant part of any HC's job, and anyone who pays attention to GT football knows that CPJ has not been completely hands off on D.

With respect to your suggestion that CPJ should hire an OC, I think the facts are that our current budget doesn't make that likely any time soon. In 2017, the pool for GT's assistant coaches was 2.9 million. By comparison, the pool for u[sic]ga's assistants was 4.6 million. I think the highest paid coach on the offensive side of the ball in 2017 was Sewak at less than $300,000, about $500,000 dollars less than a competitive OC salary. CPJ being both HC and OC is a huge benefit for us financially.

In my opinion, if we want GT to be consistently competitive with the top 10, and regularly top 25, we need to hire the best coaches. I really disagree with any suggestion that we could rely on improved recruiting for this. However, as my last paragraph notes, we are not close to the budget for that. IIuc, Dabo makes a lot more than our entire staff combined.

When PJ first arrived, Tech had, imo an excellent DC, he chose not to keep him simply because he had a stronger personality that PJ couldn't deal with. Tech will always be on the short side when it comes to money, can't really say why that is ,except most Tech grads keep it in their pockets.

 

[AE 87]

When PJ first arrived, Tech had, imo an excellent DC, he chose not to keep him simply because he had a stronger personality that PJ couldn't deal with. Tech will always be on the short side when it comes to money, can't really say why that is ,except most Tech grads keep it in their pockets.

Could you post a link where Tenuta expressed a desire to continue on as CPJ's DC? As I recall, he wanted the HC job and was not interested in working for CPJ. Maybe it was because CPJ had a stronger personality than he could deal with?

 

[GTRX7]

3-15 and putting your 5’11ish qb into a drop back is asinine.

I mean, Justin Thomas ended 2014 #5 in the entire nation in ESPN's QBR rating and #15 in 2016. So, maybe not too "asinine" with the right 5'11 QB.

http://www.espn.com/ncf/qbr/_/year/2014

 

[AE 87]

I mean, Justin Thomas ended 2014 #5 in the entire nation in ESPN's QBR rating and #15 in 2016. So, maybe not too "asinine" with the right 5'11 QB.

http://www.espn.com/ncf/qbr/_/year/2014

Well, QBR includes running, and he did say 5'11'' QB, not 5'8"

 

[GTRX7]

Well, QBR includes running, and he did say 5'11'' QB, not 5'8"

Lol about the 5'8" I mean, GT listed Thomas as 5'11", so I am sure that was correct.

As for QB rating, if you don't like QBR, Georgia Tech was rated #12 in the country in passing offense rating and #3 in yards/attempt in 2014 and was #16 in the country in passing offense rating and #4 in yards/attempt in 2016. Point is, with the right personnel, we can have have success passing from under center. I just don't agree with those that think more shotgun is necessary.
http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category02/sort04.html

We haven't stunk in 2017 and 2018 because Marshall is passing from under center, but because he is not a good passer. (That is on CPJ as a recruiter, but I don't think says much about the system.)

 

[pbrown520]

Could you post a link where Tenuta expressed a desire to continue on as CPJ's DC? As I recall, he wanted the HC job and was not interested in working for CPJ. Maybe it was because CPJ had a stronger personality than he could deal with?

Agreed. I thought that Tenuta was even offered to be retained, but I am probably misremembering.

Edited to say. Looking back at past articles just say he wasn't retained.

 

[stech81]

Could you post a link where Tenuta expressed a desire to continue on as CPJ's DC? As I recall, he wanted the HC job and was not interested in working for CPJ. Maybe it was because CPJ had a stronger personality than he could deal with?

This is what I remember he wanted the Head Coaching job.

 

[senoiajacket]

Lol about the 5'8" I mean, GT listed Thomas as 5'11", so I am sure that was correct.

As for QB rating, if you don't like QBR, Georgia Tech was rated #12 in the country in passing offense rating and #3 in yards/attempt in 2014 and was #16 in the country in passing offense rating and #4 in yards/attempt in 2016. Point is, with the right personnel, we can have have success passing from under center. I just don't agree with those that think more shotgun is necessary.
http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category02/sort04.html

We haven't stunk in 2017 and 2018 because Marshall is passing from under center, but because he is not a good passer. (That is on CPJ as a recruiter, but I don't think says much about the system.)

Perhaps your arugument does show that "more shotgun is not necessary", however, perhaps our passing offense could be even better if in obvious passing situations we would occasionally go from the gun. If we know we are going to pass & they know we are going to pass, we might as well give ourselves as much of an advantage as we can. It would probably only be 5% of all downs that we would be in that situation. I just don't see the downside unless it is something like "our centers snap to QB under center 95% of the time and can't adjust to snapping to a shotgun QB.

I am a CPJ supporter, but I do agree that he is stubborn to the point of having some sort of complex of having to prove that his system will work and that it can work without any frills, additions, or "extra advantages".

I was shocked when I heard an interview with CPJ during summer/fall camp this year and he said they only have 1 snap count. Why in the world wouldnt you take advantage of ability to vary the snap count other than 1) you think your offense will work regardless of the defense having that advantage or 2) the chance that your guys will jump offsides exceeds any advantage you might gain? I mean is there anyone else out there that only goes on one snap count? I dont know, maybe there is.

 

[AE 87]

For our newer fans, we introduced a shotgun formation in 2012. We passed better from under center.

Fun fact: uva coach Bronco whose byu team played us is using that formation this year.

 

[slugboy]

Agreed. I thought that Tenuta was even offered to be retained, but I am probably misremembering.

Edited to say. Looking back at past articles just say he wasn't retained.

I remember a story or two. I have the impression that neither wanted the meeting, and Tenuta was clear he wasn’t interested before any offer was made, and nothing was offered. Maybe he was asked. He had Notre Dame lined up.
Can’t prove that, as I wasn’t in the room and don’t think anyone else was.
It would have been an interesting combo.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[AlphaBuzz]

One more thing on recruiting. I heard CPJ make this remark in his 45 minute interview with Jeff Schultz two summers ago, after Kirby had replaced the Rev at uGa. He noted that the Dwags had very highly rated classes under Right, so that obviously meant he was a great recruiter. They fire Richt, hire Kirby and bam, they have great recruiting classes again. Kirby has never been a head man and suddenly, he's a fabulous recruiter. More likely, the school's recruit themselves.
Auburn classes are always highly rated and it doesn't matter who the coach is. Same at UF, Free Shoes U, Ohio State, etc. The coach can influence a little, but it takes years of concerted effort, money, on field success, money, resources, staff and money. Clemson has done it, but look at the resources they've poured in over the past 10 years.

GT has recruited at this same level for 50 years with few exceptions. Lame Kiffin (or whoever your favorite hotshot, B*** L3#/$ version is this year) isn't going to come in here and be able to sell the limited curriculum to even the smartest HS athletes who don't want what we offer. We have to do something different to have long term success.

CPJ gives us that on O (clearly) and many of us are hoping CNW can do the same on D.

TLDR - recruiting isn't going to magically get better for GT, regardless of who we hire (or fire).

 

[GTRX7]

Perhaps your arugument does show that "more shotgun is not necessary", however, perhaps our passing offense could be even better if in obvious passing situations we would occasionally go from the gun.

Depends what you mean by "obvious passing situations." One of the things about our system is that we are surprisingly good at converting 3rd and 7-10 with run plays. If you run shotgun, you are essentially waiving a white flag to the defense that we are not going to run and are in effect making it that much harder on yourself to pass. That said, in 3rd and very long situations, we have occasionally gone to the shotgun (though I can't say it has made any noticeable difference that I have observed).

 

[boger2337]

3. Not about recruiting, but inability to adapt--I can't remember the last time I saw the 4th down "draw them offsides" play work. Also, with pre-snap motion and other tells, how much can the other teams guess what's coming or time the snap?

Exactly. My question is when does he run a play from that stupid fake? Everyone in the nation knows each a back come to the side of the bback to draw them of guard. When do we send cotrell in motion on a sweep, hit a hard count and stand still to get leverage and hope for an offsides???? When does he truly run a play after the 2 a backs come down and throw a pass? That would work probably 65% of the time, then it also makes the other team weary if we do run the play or not.

 

[jgtengineer]

Exactly. My question is when does he run a play from that stupid fake? Everyone in the nation knows each a back come to the side of the bback to draw them of guard. When do we send cotrell in motion on a sweep, hit a hard count and stand still to get leverage and hope for an offsides???? When does he truly run a play after the 2 a backs come down and throw a pass? That would work probably 65% of the time, then it also makes the other team weary if we do run the play or not.

We ran a play out of it vs kentucky in 2016 on our own 16. we have also ran option out of the wishbone motion in the past as well. The call is not move the a-backs and call time out. Its move the a-backs and see if it generates a look up the middle to pick up the one yard or so you need. if you move them and don't get a jump or the look you want. Time out.

 

[Boaty1]

One more thing on recruiting. I heard CPJ make this remark in his 45 minute interview with Jeff Schultz two summers ago, after Kirby had replaced the Rev at uGa. He noted that the Dwags had very highly rated classes under Right, so that obviously meant he was a great recruiter. They fire Richt, hire Kirby and bam, they have great recruiting classes again. Kirby has never been a head man and suddenly, he's a fabulous recruiter. More likely, the school's recruit themselves.
Auburn classes are always highly rated and it doesn't matter who the coach is. Same at UF, Free Shoes U, Ohio State, etc. The coach can influence a little, but it takes years of concerted effort, money, on field success, money, resources, staff and money. Clemson has done it, but look at the resources they've poured in over the past 10 years.

GT has recruited at this same level for 50 years with few exceptions. Lame Kiffin (or whoever your favorite hotshot, B*** L3#/$ version is this year) isn't going to come in here and be able to sell the limited curriculum to even the smartest HS athletes who don't want what we offer. We have to do something different to have long term success.

CPJ gives us that on O (clearly) and many of us are hoping CNW can do the same on D.

TLDR - recruiting isn't going to magically get better for GT, regardless of who we hire (or fire).

By saying recruiting can’t get better regardless of the coach you sound equally as ignorant as the people on the opposing side of the argument saying we can recruit like FSU or Clemson if we changed coaches.

We aren’t going to recruit top 10 classes, but we should never be outside the top 50. And unfortunately we have found ourselves outside of that all too often under Johnson.

The argument for your side is the offense gives us an advantages. Unfortunately I just don’t see that being the case anymore. I see programs with similar resources as GT surpassing us while I see the gap between us and the powers widening. I think the offense is still capable, but I have completely bought into the fact that this offense is a negative for our defense. We have gone through 4 DC’s now and all of their D’s have looked the same. At some point you have to look at what has remained consistent over that time. In my opinion it is time to remove what has been consistent.

 

[MidtownJacket]

We ran a play out of it vs kentucky in 2016 on our own 16. we have also ran option out of the wishbone motion in the past as well. The call is not move the a-backs and call time out. Its move the a-backs and see if it generates a look up the middle to pick up the one yard or so you need. if you move them and don't get a jump or the look you want. Time out.

This.

 

[g0lftime]

This game against Louisville is very important for PJ right now. There is a lot of negative momentum building against him. More than I have seen in the past.