Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[WreckinGT]

uga had maybe one of the best college defenses of all time and they did it in today’s era. different kinda team than that clemson team

Alabama had the #1 defense in the country in 2015. Clemson put up 550 yards and 40 points on them. We saw what UGA's defense could do against Bama at full health in the SEC championship game. I don't think they were going to shut down Watson.

 

[Skeptic]

Collins: the players that I was left with for my first three years were all recruited to play in the triple option and it really takes four years to turn over a roster these days. How about we go get a waffle?

When Ted Roof gets another DC job with lavish praise from a guy now his head coach but once a top DC, there is hope for everybody.

 

[Randy Carson]

Okay...in this thread (or somewhere), there has been talk about developing an "edge"...the thing that makes Tech unique and gives us an advantage.

I'm gonna say that maybe...MAYBE...that edge is actually CGC.

Now, hear me out. Seriously, some of these college coaches come across as surly curmudgeons that are old enough to be their players GREAT grandfathers. Didn't we just fire OUR curmudgeon? Then, along comes CGC...with his 404, his waffle house schtick...you know the drill.

Granted, that's not MY cup of tea, but then, I'm closer to being one of the recently fired curmudgeon's golfing buddies, okay? But if I was a talented 18-yr old...well, I might just buy into the tweets and the Tik Tok and the what-have-you that our previous HC was not likely to embrace.

Of course, we still have to win football games, and having a solid OC and DC is probably the key there. But having a front man who can sell the program to today's kids...priceless.

 

[JacketOff]

Okay...in this thread (or somewhere), there has been talk about developing an "edge"...the thing that makes Tech unique and gives us an advantage.

I'm gonna say that maybe...MAYBE...that edge is actually CGC.

Now, hear me out. Seriously, some of these college coaches come across as surly curmudgeons that are old enough to be their players GREAT grandfathers. Didn't we just fire OUR curmudgeon? Then, along comes CGC...with his 404, his waffle house schtick...you know the drill.

Granted, that's not MY cup of tea, but then, I'm closer to being one of the recently fired curmudgeon's golfing buddies, okay? But if I was a talented 18-yr old...well, I might just buy into the tweets and the Tik Tok and the what-have-you that our previous HC was not likely to embrace.

Of course, we still have to win football games, and having a solid OC and DC is probably the key there. But having a front man who can sell the program to today's kids...priceless.

I actually think in the NIL era and modern college football, CGC was damn near the perfect hire. Having lower quality and/or very young and inexperienced assistants really hindered the program though, IMO. The 2020 recruiting class showed that there could definitely be some magic in there, but the on field product has just been very bad and it’s really taken a lot of the steam out of the ship. So many opportunities to show improvement or change, all wasted. 2019 Citadel, 2020 Syracuse, 2021 NIU, all terrible losses. All games that probably altered the seasons and the direction of the program. I really think that if we just win the Citadel game a lot of things change. Maybe we get 1 or 2 more key pieces in the 2020 class. Maybe the team gets confidence and wins 1-2 more games in 2019 and ends up at 5-7 or even 6-6 instead of 3-9. Losing to not only an FCS team, but one that ran the 3O, had to be demoralizing and embarrassing to everybody after PJ left. That one loss may have altered the future of GT football forever, but then again, maybe it didn’t. Guess we’ll never know.

I think the staff has undergone a pretty sognificant upgrade, even weighed out against the losses of Choice and Coleman. I hope we can win 6 and kind of reset the perception of the program and give CGC another chance to do what he’s best at. I genuinely believe he has the ability to get GT into that top 15-20 recruiting range at least semi-consistently if there’s success on the field. If he can’t succeed with his recruits however, his abilities are lost and effectively useless.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I agree that Collins has the right idea regarding all his marketing of GT and ATL. And we all gave him plenty of rope the first 2 seasons. This thread did not exist in years 1 and 2. We basically accepted the losses and waited for the turnaround. After year 3 and seeing the exact same ineptness from the sideline there is little hope left. Sure, do I hope he succeeds and turns into a Bear Bryant or Kirby Smart? Heck yes. But I’ve never seen a head coach do the stupid, non game related things in my 52 years he does on game days. I don’t see practices but what we see on Saturdays tells us that he has no clue how to run an effective practice. I swear if during the Clemson game he gets into a fight with a ball boy instead of thinking about the next play I may just give up. He would be a much better coach if he just stayed home on game days. We would have won more than 9 games so far if he had.

 

[MWBATL]

i mean reality is somewhere in between. paul johnson supporters would blame literally everything but paul for why we weren’t as successful as people wanted. paul johnson critics would blame literally everything on him. it’s a little bit of a two way street here and it’s also pretty funny how anything critical of johnson’s tenure is immediately dismissed as someone who is just a collins supporter

You're coming across as an absolute hater of CPJ and the triple option. Which is why so may posters are coming back at you. When the TO worked, we looked extremely good (2014). I would happily take that no matter the offense. The TO undeniably gave us an edge in that so few teams ran it effectively. I believe most people are arguing for on offense that gives us an edge. I believe most rational GT fans don't think we can simply line up and try to do what UGa and Bama do, and have *any* chance of succeeding. We need to do something different. Call it the Porky Pig offense for all I care...but SOMETHING that is unique that will be something defenses don't normally face.

 

[MWBATL]

I genuinely believe he has the ability to get GT into that top 15-20 recruiting range at least semi-consistently if there’s success on the field. If he can’t succeed with his recruits however, his abilities are lost and effectively useless.

Yeah, that's where most of us disagree with. you. Getting one recruiting class in that range doesn't prove he could consistently recruit on that range.

We simply don't have the financial resources to recruit there consistently.

 

[tmhunter52]

the margins between the teams in the 50s and us is not that great. that’s what i’m trying to say. we were in competitive games with a lot of the teams above us.

we played poorly absolutely no doubt but i’m just saying the ship is not fully submerged yet. whether it’s collins or someone else i will continue to believe there is a possibility to turn this around going forward.

the defense i think is also very fixable and that was the thing we got dinged the most by far on in advanced metrics. hoping to see some improvement there. would be great if some other people would actually support the team too!

 

[JacketOff]

Yeah, that's where most of us disagree with. you. Getting one recruiting class in that range doesn't prove he could consistently recruit on that range.

We simply don't have the financial resources to recruit there consistently.

I don’t think “most of us” do disagree with that sentiment, though. Some do, definitely, but I think most could be convinced. I mean, following a 3-9 season after losing to an FCS team CGC and his staff put together a top 25 recruiting class which included the highest rated recruit since Calvin Johnson. Also the first GT class with at least four 4-stars since 2017, a year that followed a 9-4 season and a win over UGA. He closed on Griffin in just a couple of months after he was hired at the end of 2018, and he brought in a former 5 star DL in Clayton (granted injuries have kept him off the field).

Notice how I also said “semi-consistently.” That doesn’t mean top 15-20 classes every year. But in a string of 5 years, classes ranked something like: 29, 21, 14, 24, 19 doesn’t really seem all that far fetched. You also seemed to miss my point about on-field success being a prerequisite to this type of recruiting success. Obviously going anywhere from 3-9 to 6-6 isn’t going to yield these results, but a 5 year run of 7-5, 9-3, 10-2, 7-5, 8-4 might. If anything, getting that one recruiting class after a 3-9 season is probably more evidence to the contrary of your argument.

But also like I said, if he doesn’t win games on the field it doesn’t really matter how well he can recruit, unless whoever replaces him can use his players more effectively.

 

[Pointer]

I don’t think “most of us” do disagree with that sentiment, though. Some do, definitely, but I think most could be convinced. I mean, following a 3-9 season after losing to an FCS team CGC and his staff put together a top 25 recruiting class which included the highest rated recruit since Calvin Johnson. Also the first GT class with at least four 4-stars since 2017, a year that followed a 9-4 season and a win over UGA. He closed on Griffin in just a couple of months after he was hired at the end of 2018, and he brought in a former 5 star DL in Clayton (granted injuries have kept him off the field).

Notice how I also said “semi-consistently.” That doesn’t mean top 15-20 classes every year. But in a string of 5 years, classes ranked something like: 29, 21, 14, 24, 19 doesn’t really seem all that far fetched. You also seemed to miss my point about on-field success being a prerequisite to this type of recruiting success. Obviously going anywhere from 3-9 to 6-6 isn’t going to yield these results, but a 5 year run of 7-5, 9-3, 10-2, 7-5, 8-4 might. If anything, getting that one recruiting class after a 3-9 season is probably more evidence to the contrary of your argument.

But also like I said, if he doesn’t win games on the field it doesn’t really matter how well he can recruit, unless whoever replaces him can use his players more effectively.

I'd love it if it could. Just can't imagine that happening. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I'd love it if it could. Just can't imagine that happening. Hope I'm wrong.

Would love to have you join our huge banquet hall of crow eaters

 

[Pointer]

Would love to have you join our huge banquet hall of crow eaters

Can I get it extra fried with zax sauce?

 

[CEB]

I actually think in the NIL era and modern college football, CGC was damn near the perfect hire. Having lower quality and/or very young and inexperienced assistants really hindered the program though, IMO. The 2020 recruiting class showed that there could definitely be some magic in there, but the on field product has just been very bad and it’s really taken a lot of the steam out of the ship. So many opportunities to show improvement or change, all wasted. 2019 Citadel, 2020 Syracuse, 2021 NIU, all terrible losses. All games that probably altered the seasons and the direction of the program. I really think that if we just win the Citadel game a lot of things change. Maybe we get 1 or 2 more key pieces in the 2020 class. Maybe the team gets confidence and wins 1-2 more games in 2019 and ends up at 5-7 or even 6-6 instead of 3-9. Losing to not only an FCS team, but one that ran the 3O, had to be demoralizing and embarrassing to everybody after PJ left. That one loss may have altered the future of GT football forever, but then again, maybe it didn’t. Guess we’ll never know.

I think the staff has undergone a pretty sognificant upgrade, even weighed out against the losses of Choice and Coleman. I hope we can win 6 and kind of reset the perception of the program and give CGC another chance to do what he’s best at. I genuinely believe he has the ability to get GT into that top 15-20 recruiting range at least semi-consistently if there’s success on the field. If he can’t succeed with his recruits however, his abilities are lost and effectively useless.

I’ll preface by saying I’m not sure if I agree or disagree....

The part about CGC being a great hire in the NIL era, I guess I disagree with. Sort of. I know we hired him for his recruiting prowess. Problem is, the game changed overnight just when we got a guy who was a guru of the old way. He is great at marketing and publicizing and attracting attention... that was an advantage when some other schools had to keep their “recruiting” tactics a little more low key. Now that we can throw money at kids AND BRAG ABOUT IT all over social media, does his expertise fall a little flat if it’s not backed up by gratuitous $$$?

I completely agree that the high level manager / marketing type of HC works if you can surround him with quality assistants. Not diminishing the HC role, but it’s also not too different from the old business mantra of hiring people smarter than you are...

As to the last of your post... I am really hopeful (and kind of optimistic) that we have improved our staff around him. I really hope some of our frustrations with Collins aren’t really Collins issues and that will be proven out soon... real soon.

 

[JacketFan137]

this conversation was starting in the other thread so i figured i would bring it here since this is probably more appropriate

what is the consensus on a mid season firing vs seeing out the season to save the money?

from my couch point of view i personally think saving the money and seeing out the season might be better for a program like ours that’s so cash strapped. college football is a money game so the more money we have to put into a coach, coordinators and facilities is very important. however, i do see the merit in a mid season hire to bring in a new guy to salvage a recruiting class because a lame duck coach isn’t exactly what a prospect and his family want to commit to.

DISCLAIMER: i have never run a business. it is completely out of my expertise and none of my degrees have anything to do with that. this is just a person off the street asking a guy question

 

[tmhunter52]

It’s a nice academic exercise, but not something any of us will influence. TStan holds all the cards and only he can decide whether he wants to continue playing the hand he dealt Tech football or fold and move on to the next hand.

 

[CEB]

It’s a nice academic exercise, but not something any of us will influence. TStan holds all the cards and only he can decide whether he wants to continue playing the hand he dealt Tech football or fold and move on to the next hand.

Wait a minute.... I have no influence? You mean all these posts have just been a waste of my time? No one is listening to me? Damn... I thought I had found purpose.

 

[CEB]

this conversation was starting in the other thread so i figured i would bring it here since this is probably more appropriate

what is the consensus on a mid season firing vs seeing out the season to save the money?

from my couch point of view i personally think saving the money and seeing out the season might be better for a program like ours that’s so cash strapped. college football is a money game so the more money we have to put into a coach, coordinators and facilities is very important. however, i do see the merit in a mid season hire to bring in a new guy to salvage a recruiting class because a lame duck coach isn’t exactly what a prospect and his family want to commit to.

DISCLAIMER: i have never run a business. it is completely out of my expertise and none of my degrees have anything to do with that. this is just a person off the street asking a guy question

Got the snark out... now I’ll play.
I think this massive buyout prior to the end of year 4 was us agreeing that we have our guy for the next four years. I think we acknowledged that there is no FOOTBALL reason for us to let him go prior, and I still believe that to be the case. I have a hard time believing that $7M damage can be done in 2-3 months so long as the man is honestly trying to win football games, so I have a hard time believing we pull the trigger mid season unless it is for cause. I hope it doesn’t come to that because that scenario could be just as bad for our program as paying the buyout.
That said... If we fire him mid season and do so without cause, we had better be targeting a guy who is ready to make the jump mid season or we had better have our guy on staff. I know a few people have said that’s why we got Long, but I’m not convinced... hope he’s a homerun if that is our intention.
I think all signs point to a November decision.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

IF we start 2-3, or 3-2, he will definitely finish the season. But what about 1-4?

 

[CEB]

IF we start 2-3, or 3-2, he will definitely finish the season. But what about 1-4?

1-4 isn’t a tipping point. 1-4 would be bad but On paper, 3 of our toughest games are in that stretch. Now, 1-5 is a diffeeent story. In my mind there are two “can’t lose” games... WCU and Dook. 1-5 means we’ve lost one of those. I think there are winnable games in the back half of our schedule, but not for a team that starts 1-5. 1-5 means we won’t hit our 3 win average.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Collins not finishing the season is a worst case scenario. Heaven forbid it comes to that put this is an example of how that unfolds. We begin the season by losing ugly and it just gets uglier. Some players just lay down and they are replaced by underclassmen who in turn suffer injuries due to lack of training and experience. We have trouble getting even 20,000 fans in the stadium and the next recruiting class starts to fall apart.

Now TStan steps in and makes a decision. Just as it seemed important before to advertise the 404 and sell a culture of recruiting for the pros, now it becomes doubly important to show that the program is stable, adults are in charge and Tech is committed to winning. To simply let the season play out in a gruesome death spiral because you wanted to save a few bucks would tell every top recruit in the nation we are a Mickey Mouse program. If people think it was hard to overcome the triple option with recruits, you ain’t seen nothing if we just play out a season in which the coaches and players are just going through the motions, and the fans have given up, all because we are too cheap to stop the misery. We would be known for a generation as the Dollar General store of college football.