Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[g0lftime]

Yep. That's what he's trying to convince us... the same team that was incredibly lucky to get a third win at Duke is about as good as we were under CPJ. I mean once your out of the top 50, they're all the same right ?

The extent to which people will go to explain away the last three years is really dumbfounding.... We still have not won back to back games in three years.

I'm sure there were still some Butch Jones supporters at Tennessee when he was fired.

 

[JacketFan137]

Wait a minute, hold on now. You are seriously going to sit there and argue that Collin’s teams were more competitive than Johnson’s ?!!!

I’m not ready to say that the flexbone was done for good. Even under Dodd Tech had stretches of down years. These things ALWAYS eventually go into a down cycle at Tech but then can turn around. The problem with Collins is we have seen no evidence so far that he can turn things around. At least with Johnson we knew he was a winner.

Speaking of negative nancies, that’s why CPJ left because it was no longer fun and I have to believe some of that was people being irrational about his offense year after year. When I watch the NFL playoffs this year I noticed some plays right out of the Johnson playbook. But don’t tell the hate the triple option crowd.

yeah that is just stretching what i’m saying completely and just ridiculous. not what i’m saying whatsoever

 

[JacketFan137]

From the list above its pretty easy to compare the 2015 team to the 2021 team. They ended up with the same record but not nearly the same path to it. The 2015 team lost 9 games by a combined 82 points. The 2021 team lost 9 games by a combined 169 points. The 2015 team beat a 10 win top 15 team. The 2021 team didn't beat a team with a winning record. The 2015 team didn't lose any game by three TDs. The 2021 team lost three by 30+ points. That seems like a big difference. Most importantly, the 2015 team jumped up to 9 wins the next season. How are you feeling about getting to 9 wins next year?

lot of issues with what you’ve said here that have made these situations not comparable whatsoever.

2015 coming off the best season since the national championship with a returning QB and going 3-9 is bill lewis caliber stuff. the team had no excuse to be that bad

you’ve arbitrarily created this 21 points thing to conveniently ignore a garbage time TD vs clemson scored when the game was well done and dusted. that game was not any better than any of these games.

we did not play a team close to as good as uga was this year. this years notre dame was better than any team but clemson.

fsu i can give you that was pretty crazy and was a great win.

we also played a different style that basically catered to keeping games close and keeping possessions down. margin of victory isn’t quite the same thing when you consider that

you’ve also ignored the fact that a backup qb played against uga and notre dame. still losses but that margin of victory is a lot lower for both of those. injuries are a part of the game but qb is the one position teams really can never overcome

 

[cthenrys]

lot of issues with what you’ve said here that have made these situations not comparable whatsoever.

2015 coming off the best season since the national championship with a returning QB and going 3-9 is bill lewis caliber stuff. the team had no excuse to be that bad

you’ve arbitrarily created this 21 points thing to conveniently ignore a garbage time TD vs clemson scored when the game was well done and dusted. that game was not any better than any of these games.

we did not play a team close to as good as uga was this year. this years notre dame was better than any team but clemson.

fsu i can give you that was pretty crazy and was a great win.

we also played a different style that basically catered to keeping games close and keeping possessions down. margin of victory isn’t quite the same thing when you consider that

you’ve also ignored the fact that a backup qb played against uga and notre dame. still losses but that margin of victory is a lot lower for both of those. injuries are a part of the game but qb is the one position teams really can never overcome

Sigh….. Just make it stop. Start an “All the reasons why Coach Collins is Great” thread.

 

[takethepoints]

When I watch the NFL playoffs this year I noticed some plays right out of the Johnson playbook. But don’t tell the hate the triple option crowd.

Not to mention actually lining up in one of the spread option sets. And running the same plays. As the Chiefs at the 32 second mark (a straight dive from an over right) or the Bengals at 2:32 (a straight counter, also over right):


I've actually noticed this more in this last season. Could it be that everybody going to running QBs is having an effect on running calls? (Duh.)

 

[WreckinGT]

lot of issues with what you’ve said here that have made these situations not comparable whatsoever.

2015 coming off the best season since the national championship with a returning QB and going 3-9 is bill lewis caliber stuff. the team had no excuse to be that bad

you’ve arbitrarily created this 21 points thing to conveniently ignore a garbage time TD vs clemson scored when the game was well done and dusted. that game was not any better than any of these games.

we did not play a team close to as good as uga was this year. this years notre dame was better than any team but clemson.

fsu i can give you that was pretty crazy and was a great win.

we also played a different style that basically catered to keeping games close and keeping possessions down. margin of victory isn’t quite the same thing when you consider that

you’ve also ignored the fact that a backup qb played against uga and notre dame. still losses but that margin of victory is a lot lower for both of those. injuries are a part of the game but qb is the one position teams really can never overcome

Give me a break. Our strength of schedule was 14th in the country in 2015 vs 32nd in 2021 and we performed far better against that tougher schedule in everything except wins. Again, we won 9 games the next year and nobody was all that surprised. Are you ready to predict 9 wins for next year?

 

[JacketFan137]

Sigh….. Just make it stop. Start an “All the reasons why Coach Collins is Great” thread.

again, we’ve swung so far in the other direction anything but a whining post about how collins is so bad and the program is so pathetic now has been interpreted as just blind support of collins. like i’ve said like 100 times now we could fire him tomorrow and i really wouldn’t care so long as we made a decent hire after.

at no point did i say collins was good. i just said there’s potential for things to be better this season and we aren’t a far off as some believe from being at least a decent 6-6 ball team.

but yes continue the tribalistic efforts of “if you’re not with us you’re against us!”. far too much binary thinking from the nancies on this forum, and i don’t understand why people continue to come back if tech and collins makes them so miserable

 

[JacketFan137]

Give me a break. Our strength of schedule was 14th in the country in 2015 vs 32nd in 2021 and we performed far better against that tougher schedule in everything except wins. Again, we won 9 games the next year and nobody was all that surprised. Are you ready to predict 9 wins for next year?

no because that’s not remotely relevant to this discussion and you’ve completely changed the topic

 

[takethepoints]

2015 coming off the best season since the national championship with a returning QB and going 3-9 is bill lewis caliber stuff. the team had no excuse to be that bad

we did not play a team close to as good as … was this year. this years notre dame was better than any team but clemson.

we also played a different style that basically catered to keeping games close and keeping possessions down. margin of victory isn’t quite the same thing when you consider that

you’ve also ignored the fact that a backup qb played against uga and notre dame. still losses but that margin of victory is a lot lower for both of those. injuries are a part of the game but qb is the one position teams really can never overcome

1. You are forgetting (https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...ia-tech-football-2016-preview-schedule-roster):
"Not a single fullback played in all 12 games. Leading returning slotback Broderick Snoddy missed four games. Slotback Qua Searcy was carrying a big early load, then missed the last nine. Fullback C.J. Leggett, a presumed future star, missed the entire season (as did his backup Quaid, btw, and the freshman star who was going to start at AB, Nate Cottrell). Quarterback TaQuon Marshall had to fill in at slotback for a while (because we lost Tim Byerly, Mr. TD-inside-the-10, during the season as well).. On top of that, only two linemen started in all 12 games.
…
Meanwhile, only one defensive lineman could stay on the field for 12 games, which prevented the Yellow Jacket defense from improving enough to make up any of the difference."
And this was after losing our top two BBs, our top 5 ABs, our top two WRs, and Shaq(!) Mason(!!) to graduation. There were times when we had ABs who went the wrong way on plays; no sweat, they were freshmen. This is the worst injury cascade in Tech football history.

2. Sorry, I think Mississippi State was as good as the Dwags were this year. Case in point: their QB was Dak Prescott. 'Nuff said. They also spent 4 weeks at #1, 1 at #3, and 2 at #4. The Dogs did slightly better in the rankings this year but I'd put the talent levels as pretty much the same.

3. Well … yeah. That was the whole point of the spread option. What you are saying is that comparing an O that kept games within range where you could, you know, win to what we run today is … unfair?

4. Granted. I doubt that Sims could have done much better, but we'll never know.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Give me a break. Our strength of schedule was 14th in the country in 2015 vs 32nd in 2021 and we performed far better against that tougher schedule in everything except wins. Again, we won 9 games the next year and nobody was all that surprised. Are you ready to predict 9 wins for next year?

I seem to recall we had some injuries to some key players in 2015 also. But CPJ was never allowed any extenuating circumstances by the “hate the option” crowd but those same fans will make endless excuses for Collins.

 

[JacketFan137]

I seem to recall we had some injuries to some key players in 2015 also. But CPJ was never allowed any extenuating circumstances by the “hate the option” crowd but those same fans will make endless excuses for Collins.

i mean reality is somewhere in between. paul johnson supporters would blame literally everything but paul for why we weren’t as successful as people wanted. paul johnson critics would blame literally everything on him. it’s a little bit of a two way street here and it’s also pretty funny how anything critical of johnson’s tenure is immediately dismissed as someone who is just a collins supporter

 

[Northeast Stinger]

i mean reality is somewhere in between. paul johnson supporters would blame literally everything but paul for why we weren’t as successful as people wanted. paul johnson critics would blame literally everything on him. it’s a little bit of a two way street here and it’s also pretty funny how anything critical of johnson’s tenure is immediately dismissed as someone who is just a collins supporter

I think that’s true generally. The problem I have is that criticism of most Tech coaches has been over the top for as long as I can remember. I’m kind of a Rodney King type wishing we could all just get along.

On the other hand, the criticism of Bill Lewis and Collins seems commensurate with what we are seeing rather than any kind of agenda. I honestly think ignoring a lot of this criticism would make it die down some. It’s the defending of Collins, especially at the expense of other coaches, like Johnson, that seems to inflame people.

As I’ve said countless times, I want CGC to succeed. But he’s pretty much responsible for our current mess and I see no reason to defend him. On the other hand I try not to pile on either because that’s over kill at this point. It will either get better or it won’t. If forced to make a bet I know what my money would be on.

 

[billga99]

Getting something unique in terms of schemes is a lot easier said than done. But I don't think a hurry up offense is going to help our overall record. Why? I think if Sims can click it could help get more production out of the offense. But hurry up offense also means exposing our defense to a lot more possessions by the opponents. I think one of the reasons Paul Johnson hung in most games was not always because of the offense (though it was very good many times), but limited opponent's possessions.

With our lack of quality depth on defense, the more times we are on the field the more we are exposed. There are ways to run even a no huddle and then slow down the actually snap. If you look at a lot of the teams, they run to the line of scrimmage, look to the sidelines for the calls and then snap the ball with 5 or less seconds on the clock. That kind of hurry up I am fine with because it hopefully limits opponents defensive substitutions. But to really go the route of snapping the ball in 20 or less seconds I think will cause even more problems for our defense.

 

[JacketFan137]

I think that’s true generally. The problem I have is that criticism of most Tech coaches has been over the top for as long as I can remember. I’m kind of a Rodney King type wishing we could all just get along.

On the other hand, the criticism of Bill Lewis and Collins seems commensurate with what we are seeing rather than any kind of agenda. I honestly think ignoring a lot of this criticism would make it die down some. It’s the defending of Collins, especially at the expense of other coaches, like Johnson, that seems to inflame people.

As I’ve said countless times, I want CGC to succeed. But he’s pretty much responsible for our current mess and I see no reason to defend him. On the other hand I try not to pile on either because that’s over kill at this point. It will either get better or it won’t. If forced to make a bet I know what my money would be on.

yeah i think we’re close to the same view point. it seems like really weird and unnecessary criticism constantly from the same few vocal accounts on here and at first i thought it would die down a little but clearly it won’t. at what point does it end? hearing it constantly when nothing can change one way or the other has just left me wondering why people prefer to wallow in their miserable self pity every single day. and i guess by not taking their side i have fed into their tribalistic thinking lol

also way too much binary thinking where anything but constant praise of johnson and constant sh!tt!ng on collins is kind of not allowed by the thought leaders here

 

[JacketFan137]

Getting something unique in terms of schemes is a lot easier said than done. But I don't think a hurry up offense is going to help our overall record. Why? I think if Sims can click it could help get more production out of the offense. But hurry up offense also means exposing our defense to a lot more possessions by the opponents. I think one of the reasons Paul Johnson hung in most games was not always because of the offense (though it was very good many times), but limited opponent's possessions.

With our lack of quality depth on defense, the more times we are on the field the more we are exposed. There are ways to run even a no huddle and then slow down the actually snap. If you look at a lot of the teams, they run to the line of scrimmage, look to the sidelines for the calls and then snap the ball with 5 or less seconds on the clock. That kind of hurry up I am fine with because it hopefully limits opponents defensive substitutions. But to really go the route of snapping the ball in 20 or less seconds I think will cause even more problems for our defense.

it’s more than likely going to be a mix. if it’s not clicking you don’t want to hurry up yourself into a 14-0 deficits off the jump. but if you feel the momentum you’ll probably go faster a la the unc game where it worked for us

i think tempo is just one of the few variables you can dictate and patenaude/collins didnt for whatever reason. long seems to be all in on dictating temp

 

[LongforDodd]

....

2. Sorry, I think Mississippi State was as good as the Dwags were this year. ... but I'd put the talent levels as pretty much the same.

...

Not...even...close.

 

[WreckinGT]

Not...even...close.

We didn't play Miss St in 2015 anyways. However, I would argue the 2015 Deshaun Watson Clemson team that only lost one game to Alabama by 5 points in the National Championship is probably close to the 2021 UGA team if not better.

 

[JacketFan137]

We didn't play Miss St in 2015 anyways. However, I would argue the 2015 Deshaun Watson Clemson team that only lost one game to Alabama by 5 points in the National Championship is probably close to the 2021 UGA team if not better.

uga had maybe one of the best college defenses of all time and they did it in today’s era. different kinda team than that clemson team

 

[takethepoints]

We didn't play Miss St in 2015 anyways. However, I would argue the 2015 Deshaun Watson Clemson team that only lost one game to Alabama by 5 points in the National Championship is probably close to the 2021 UGA team if not better.

Yes, my bad. I do think the Clemson team in 2015 was about the same as the Dwags this year. I was surprised when Bama beat them.

 

[Techastrophe]

If you have a 1000cc super sport and don't put on the right tires for the day or just ride it stupid you may get beat by 600cc competition. No matter how much power you have, you can't beat discipline if you don't have discipline. CPJ brought scheme discipline but not much recruiting discipline. CGC had recruiting discipline but undermined all that with lack of game day discipline. I'd say football is a game of discipline before it's a game of power. You don't get discipline by having power, you get power by having discipline. Whether you're talking about scheme or roster or analytics and innovation you are talking about discipline. Until we sustain some in every single area we are going to be digging a deeper hole.