Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[tmhunter52]

@bke1984 If we’re considering switching coaches this year which I think is unlikely, we’re going to need to “Hewitt” the contract. We’re going to need to take the $14M and spread it out over 8 or 10 years. 3K GT supporters gave $2.9M this past year specifically to keep us from defaulting on our bills or drawing on a line of credit. I think between renewed interest in the program & folks willing to fork over more, it could be possible. That being said, if we eat 1 more year of this we end up only needing to pay off $7M. You could pay that off fairly quickly, maybe 4 years or less.

This brings up the #2 conundrum. I know assistants generally are not promised anything & usually are on 1 year deals, but we already ran Woody out of town after 1 year. If we can coordinators, then a year later cashier our coach & he gets rid of all of them, well maybe he finds a difficult time because outside of all the other challenges GT presents, job instability is not there either.

The budget is a definite issue. We lost almost $3M last fiscal year despite severely reduced operations and I believe salary cuts. We needed emergency fundraising to make it up. I’m guessing we’ll be $1M or more in the hole this year (hoping the Benz deal is worth $1M/yr), probably worst case $3M in the red. Can’t find a recent financial report & am guessing based on past history, projecting football revenue losses due to poor gate/season ticket sales. I’m also thinking more people are going to be sitting on their wallets Given our troubles and no plan.

My bet: the entire staff is here next year. They’ll have 1 more year to turn it around & Tstan is going to have a very hard year if things go poorly. He’d better hope for a miracle 6-6 record.

Simple plan. Default on contract. Declare a Chapter 11 reorganization. Clean house. Free up money to start over.

 

[g0lftime]

When an AD takes that much control of the team, then the coach isn't in charge. Name a single successful program where the AD is calling the shots on hiring decisions for assistants.

Homer Rice did it to BL. How do you think we got O'Leary. He basically reported to Rice. I know the uncle of one of the players back then. He told me they were practicing and BL told them if they messed up on a drill at the end of practice they would continue practicing. O'Leary supposedly told him not against his defense and told his guys that practice was over. That was just before BL was let go. Homer Rice is probably the best AD we have ever had for a lot of reasons.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Name a successful program that wins 3-4 games a year.

What does that have to do with anything? I asked a specific question. If you can't answer it then it goes to show I was right...

 

[slugboy]

Homer Rice did it to BL. How do you think we got O'Leary. He basically reported to Rice. I know the uncle of one of the players back then. He told me they were practicing and BL told them if they messed up on a drill at the end of practice they would continue practicing. O'Leary supposedly told him not against his defense and told his guys that practice was over. That was just before BL was let go. Homer Rice is probably the best AD we have ever had for a lot of reasons.

That was a hostile “clean up your act or O’Leary is replacing you” move, and after the dust settles from that, either the AD goes or the “coach in waiting” takes over. There’s a slim chance at best of the relationship between the HC and AD surviving that.

You’re also not looking for a coach after you appoint coordinators—you’re hiring your next HC with your current HC in place.

Simple plan. Default on contract. Declare a Chapter 11 reorganization. Clean house. Free up money to start over.

There goes the AI 2020 fund.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Not if he gets some good assistants and thrives. Collins had his people in here, the ones he brought with him from Temple, They didn't work out.

It's not that unheard of for an AD to take some of the reins away from the HC. It's been done before.

I remember when Pepper Rodgers brought in Norm Van Brocklin and Steve Spurrier to coach quarterbacks and running backs.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Yes, I’m absolutely saying we should continue to find cheap young coaches until we find one that is legit. We can go thru many of these for a lesser price tag than getting a loser retread (like we did under CPJ). We took a shot with Patenaude and he stinks. Cut bait and go to the next one. There is no real alternative because we can’t afford a proven guy.

Our choices are 1) ride it out another 4 year with these guys, 2) fire the OC and DC and hire proven D1 guys (not gonna happen), 3) hire mediocre D1 coordinators at a big price tag, 4) try a young cheap guy and if he sucks hire the next cheap young guy.

Does anyone remember we had Spurrier on staff and let him go to Duke and the rest is history. But I’m sure we’ll hire a retread OC and DC and dig ourselves deeper into the financial hole.

Any coordinator we hire will get 2 years to install his system. Realistically, Collins will get to hire 1 more set of coordinators and if they don't work out, he is done. At a minimum, he will want someone with a track record at the FBS level if he is going to wager the rest of his tenure and future as a head coach

 

[bke1984]

I was thinking about this more this morning.

Every team has a range of outcomes for any give season with a floor and a ceiling. What frustrates me most about our program right now when I get past the emotion is that for three straight years it feels like we are hitting the floor. Many have pointed out that we are “close” and “improving,” but it’s not materializing into what actually matters - WINS. At our very worst our floor should be three wins in a season. And we are about to do that for the third straight year. That’s very frustrating and evidence of a fundamental problem with what our staff is doing.

 

[smokey_wasp]

I was thinking about this more this morning.

Every team has a range of outcomes for any give season with a floor and a ceiling. What frustrates me most about our program right now when I get past the emotion is that for three straight years it feels like we are hitting the floor. Many have pointed out that we are “close” and “improving,” but it’s not materializing into what actually matters - WINS. At our very worst our floor should be three wins in a season. And we are about to do that for the third straight year. That’s very frustrating and evidence of a fundamental problem with what our staff is doing.

The floor in 2019 was probably 1 win. Last year, I dunno how to evaluate it. This year, agreed. Floor was 3 and ceiling 6'ish. To me, we are behind schedule if we lose out.

 

[bobongo]

When an AD takes that much control of the team, then the coach isn't in charge. Name a single successful program where the AD is calling the shots on hiring decisions for assistants.

They could make it a joint endeavor. Sort of like when God said to Moses, "Come, let us reason together".

 

[Vespidae]

I was thinking about this more this morning.

Every team has a range of outcomes for any give season with a floor and a ceiling. What frustrates me most about our program right now when I get past the emotion is that for three straight years it feels like we are hitting the floor. Many have pointed out that we are “close” and “improving,” but it’s not materializing into what actually matters - WINS. At our very worst our floor should be three wins in a season. And we are about to do that for the third straight year. That’s very frustrating and evidence of a fundamental problem with what our staff is doing.

I think what is frustrating is the lack of transparency.

I totally get leading a turnaround. And Geoff said in his presser, some things about managing margin. He should have said that 3 years ago ... "Hey folks, in Year 1, we expect to lose some games and probably by a wide margin. As we build strength and confidence, we expect Year 2 to be similar but ... still on the negative side. Year 3 ... we should begin to match up well with most our our opponents and maybe win some games. Year 4 ... we expect to be competitive in almost all games and have the experience and depth we need to sustain."

He has never said that. Not even close. He talks in riddles and tweetable moments rather than direct. What I do remember is, after Year 1 ... he said GT Football would never spend Christmas at home again ... meaning we would be back into the bowl picture. A bit of not delivering on expectations he set.

That is probably what frustrates me the most. I think he knows this ... but sticks to his "elite" script.

 

[bke1984]

The floor in 2019 was probably 1 win. Last year, I dunno how to evaluate it. This year, agreed. Floor was 3 and ceiling 6'ish. To me, we are behind schedule if we lose out.

The floor should never have been one win with Citadel and USF on the schedule.

 

[BuzzStone]

The floor should never have been one win with Citadel and USF on the schedule.

I agree with our schedule our floor every year is 4.

 

[bke1984]

I think what is frustrating is the lack of transparency.

I totally get leading a turnaround. And Geoff said in his presser, some things about managing margin. He should have said that 3 years ago ... "Hey folks, in Year 1, we expect to lose some games and probably by a wide margin. As we build strength and confidence, we expect Year 2 to be similar but ... still on the negative side. Year 3 ... we should begin to match up well with most our our opponents and maybe win some games. Year 4 ... we expect to be competitive in almost all games and have the experience and depth we need to sustain."

He has never said that. Not even close. He talks in riddles and tweetable moments rather than direct. What I do remember is, after Year 1 ... he said GT Football would never spend Christmas at home again ... meaning we would be back into the bowl picture. A bit of not delivering on expectations he set.

That is probably what frustrates me the most. I think he knows this ... but sticks to his "elite" script.

Coaching turnover and system change happen all the time. The dude came in making excuses about how hard it was before he’d ever coached a single game. Then has produced at the bottom of any reasonable expectations for three years.

 

[bobongo]

If you are still posting in this thread, I have one bit of advice for you:

"Remember what the dormouse said."

"Feed your head?"

 

[Papa Foxtrot]

The floor should never have been one win with Citadel and USF on the schedule.

I think Citadel is the one loss that I'll never get over. That was a coaching loss pure and simple.

 

[stech81]

We have lowered our standards, 3 win is the floor? I remember everyone getting upset when an AD said seven Wins is our ceiling and maybe sometimes 9 wins every few years.
And here we are with CGC and people still defending him in hopes that in a few more years we can get 6 wins. When he learns to quit blowing his horn about how good he thinks he is and stops trying to be friends with the players 30 years younger than him and starts coaching it ain't going to happen.

 

[Techster]

Homer Rice did it to BL. How do you think we got O'Leary. He basically reported to Rice. I know the uncle of one of the players back then. He told me they were practicing and BL told them if they messed up on a drill at the end of practice they would continue practicing. O'Leary supposedly told him not against his defense and told his guys that practice was over. That was just before BL was let go. Homer Rice is probably the best AD we have ever had for a lot of reasons.

ADs have input on hires. It's whether the HC is willing to listen and take that advice. Dave Braine recommended Jon Tenuta to Chan Gailey.

Of course, it doesn't always work out, and sometimes there are ulterior motives as your example shows.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

I think what is frustrating is the lack of transparency.

I totally get leading a turnaround. And Geoff said in his presser, some things about managing margin. He should have said that 3 years ago ... "Hey folks, in Year 1, we expect to lose some games and probably by a wide margin. As we build strength and confidence, we expect Year 2 to be similar but ... still on the negative side. Year 3 ... we should begin to match up well with most our our opponents and maybe win some games. Year 4 ... we expect to be competitive in almost all games and have the experience and depth we need to sustain."

He has never said that. Not even close. He talks in riddles and tweetable moments rather than direct. What I do remember is, after Year 1 ... he said GT Football would never spend Christmas at home again ... meaning we would be back into the bowl picture. A bit of not delivering on expectations he set.

That is probably what frustrates me the most. I think he knows this ... but sticks to his "elite" script.

Good god read between the lines. The biggest transformation in modern history schtick is telling you the first couple years will be rough. He's also starting to tell us they expect to win. Assuming we finish 3-9, I don't think anyone is happy with that but we are better than we were last year.

All the elite talk is talking to his players and recruits and whether we like it or not, it resonates and works. We know he's a marketer, a salesman, or if you prefer a bull ****ter. We all know the obstacles he has to overcome compared to most of our conference mates. Our fans just make it a million times harder than it already is (whether it's Collins, Johnson, Gailey, or even if Nick freaking Saban decided to coach here).

He's never going to say exactly what you guys want. Do you let others tell you how to speak? He is who he is but most of us here are educated enough to read between the lines.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

We have lowered our standards, 3 win is the floor? I remember everyone getting upset when an AD said seven Wins is our ceiling and maybe sometimes 9 wins every few years.
And here we are with CGC and people still defending him in hopes that in a few more years we can get 6 wins. When he learns to quit blowing his horn about how good he thinks he is and stops trying to be friends with the players 30 years younger than him and starts coaching it ain't going to happen.

No one is doing that. Quit making up arguments that don't exist

 

[bobongo]

ADs have input on hires. It's whether the HC is willing to listen and take that advice. Dave Braine recommended Jon Tenuta to Chan Gailey.

Of course, it doesn't always work out, and sometimes there are ulterior motives as your example shows.

Yeah, I would imagine TStan and Collins will work together on this. TStan needs to take him under his wing and help guide his choice.