Louisville Postgame

[gtie73]

A problem no one addresses is that millionaire coaches are slow to change because of the ”fraternity” mindset. Remember, in the back of their mind they are always thinking about their next job interview unless they are confident in their own skin and have the star power to do whatever they want, ala Saban, Spurrier types. Johnson could have had a great ending to his career if he simply tweaked his system but he was stubborn. The tush push is EASILY incorporated to any system. For GT, if you don’t want to burden King then simply use Pyron and put 2 backup TE’s as dual halfbacks. Heck, bring in a different Center i you are worried about practice reps. You can simply have a center, a QB, and 2 big boys as a special teams unit for that play like we have a long snapper and punter special team. What Philly has proven is that coaches are stupid. Pyron and Hurts are the same size although Pyron has a couple inches on him. The key to the tush push is the push. We did it several times in a different version in the UCF game where the OLine pushed Jamal over the first down line. I’d much rather take my chances on 4th and 6 inches with Pyron and 2 hosses pushing him than seeing King in the shotgun flanked by Jamal.

 

[gtie73]

BS

 

[stinger78]

GT is now 0-7 when King throws more than 30 times in a game.
Having King throw the ball alot is not a winning strategy.
He's our best offensive player by a mile, but he is not good enough to carry the team on his back.

For whatever reason the offensive line is not playing anywhere near as well as last season, which is killing our running game. We also lack any big RB's that can carry players and any receivers that can be 'jump ball' guys. We have to rely on scheming to get openings.
The OL has proven it is not capable of controlling the line of scrimmage so continuing to run right into the line on short yardage situations is just poor (and possibly stubborn) game calling by the coaching staff. If you are determined to do that then bring Zach in under center and run. King has been a better passer than last season but he also tends to be late and sometimes behind in his throws. He has a good not great arm so he really has to wind up on deep throws which tends to make them late and behind. How the pass got through to Singleton i'll never know - L'ville has 2 players in great position to defend it but it managed to get through - great catch by Singleton.

On defense, the run defense is greatly improved, but the pass defense is a mess. This is a largely an issue with the lack of talent in the front 7. The DL gets no push on pass plays - we lack even one above average pass rusher. There is not a single DL that the opposing offense really has to scheme against. Our LB's are fantastic in run support but a liability in pass defense and opposing OC's have figured that out and are abusing them in pass D. Also, this is one of the worst defenses i've ever seen in terms of Havoc plays. Excluding the VMI game, the defense has 2 sacks and 2 fumble recoveries, 0 INT's on the season. Opposing QB's largely know they are going to have time to throw. GT's defense has also allowed 8 conversions on 11 fourth down attempts.

Special teams has an issue with FG kicking. GT is just 3-7 on FG's and just 1 made FG of over 40 yards (1-5 overall I believe). I believe Birr has also missed every field goal attempt from the right hash. He seems to start right and it never comes back. If the ball is on the right hash i'd rather go for it than attempt a FG.

Before the season I thought this was probably a 6-7 win team. I'm still feeling that, though probably leaning more toward 6-6. 5-7 to 7-5 is where I expect this team to end up.

I don't see a team that has made any significant step forward to this point this season. There are some things it is doing better than last year but just as many things it is doing worse. Pretty much a wash.

The coaching staff desperately wants this to be a smash mouth running team, but it simply is not that and if they don't adjust then there are plenty of losses left on the schedule.

Red, one slight quibble: We are 0-7 when King throws over 30 times in a game… *using our current game plan.* Under that plan, we have tried to run and have fallen well behind.

This scenario limits a well constructed passing attack utilizing an integrated system of short, medium, and long passes, punctuated by an integrated running game. Under such an integrated approach, King’s numbers and our win capability may well be different.

Look at what we did in the second half of the VMI game. Three different QB’s executed a deep passing game well. Yes, it was VMI but it was a cohesive, integrated vertical plan that we executed well.

 

[RamblinRed]

Red, one slight quibble: We are 0-7 when King throws over 30 times in a game… *using our current game plan.* Under that plan, we have tried to run and have fallen well behind.

This scenario limits a well constructed passing attack utilizing an integrated system of short, medium, and long passes, punctuated by an integrated running game. Under such an integrated approach, King’s numbers and our win capability may well be different.

Look at what we did in the second half of the VMI game. Three different QB’s executed a deep passing game well. Yes, it was VMI but it was a cohesive, integrated vertical plan that we executed well.

Honestly I don't even look at a game like VMI - they are glorified scrimmages - very seldom does what a team do against an FCS opponent translate against a P4 opponent.

It is absolutely true that the reason King has thrown over 30 passes in most of those games is that we are behind and having to throw. That is the issue. King is not someone you really want airing the ball out 30+ times a game, he isn't strong enough and accurate enough for that to work consistently. But right now our running game is so broke it is sort of what we are having to do because we are playing catchup in the second half against teams with similar talent.

Unlike some here I don't think GT is more talented than L'ville - i'd say the talent is relatively equivalent. Same tier if you want.
What I did see though is one team had a stronger coaching staff. Defensively L'ville was able to take away what GT wants to do first. Offensively, they figured out what GT's weakness was and exploited it.

I would argue that right now we are a better passing team than rushing team and should use the pass to set up the run rather than the reverse.

 

[MtnWasp]

GT is now 0-7 when King throws more than 30 times in a game.
Having King throw the ball alot is not a winning strategy.

I'm not going to research this, but I'd be willing to bet that King throws 30 times in games when we are already two scores behind in the second half.

Key wants to run to set up the pass. If we had a physically dominant offensive line like Alabama did under Sabin, then that might be the way to go.

As it is, the rules of the modern game favor passing. Flat passes are the new run game.

King, Singleton, Rutherford, Boyd, et al. Too good to be off-speed pitches.

 

[iceeater1969]

Honestly I don't even look at a game like VMI - they are glorified scrimmages - very seldom does what a team do against an FCS opponent translate against a P4 opponent.

It is absolutely true that the reason King has thrown over 30 passes in most of those games is that we are behind and having to throw. That is the issue. King is not someone you really want airing the ball out 30+ times a game, he isn't strong enough and accurate enough for that to work consistently. But right now our running game is so broke it is sort of what we are having to do because we are playing catchup in the second half against teams with similar talent.

Unlike some here I don't think GT is more talented than L'ville - i'd say the talent is relatively equivalent. Same tier if you want.
What I did see though is one team had a stronger coaching staff. Defensively L'ville was able to take away what GT wants to do first. Offensively, they figured out what GT's weakness was and exploited it.

I would argue that right now we are a better passing team than rushing team and should use the pass to set up the run rather than the reverse.

Not strong enough?
Not accurate?
He is our passer and rusher.

This game we went vertical and unfortunately we didnt score from outside the 20.


I ll gladly take my chances with king.
A clean pocket, wr that get separation, and can high point the ball impact the passing game.

 

[57jacket]

GT is now 0-7 when King throws more than 30 times in a game.
Having King throw the ball alot is not a winning strategy.
He's our best offensive player by a mile, but he is not good enough to carry the team on his back.

For whatever reason the offensive line is not playing anywhere near as well as last season, which is killing our running game. We also lack any big RB's that can carry players and any receivers that can be 'jump ball' guys. We have to rely on scheming to get openings.
The OL has proven it is not capable of controlling the line of scrimmage so continuing to run right into the line on short yardage situations is just poor (and possibly stubborn) game calling by the coaching staff. If you are determined to do that then bring Zach in under center and run. King has been a better passer than last season but he also tends to be late and sometimes behind in his throws. He has a good not great arm so he really has to wind up on deep throws which tends to make them late and behind. How the pass got through to Singleton i'll never know - L'ville has 2 players in great position to defend it but it managed to get through - great catch by Singleton.

On defense, the run defense is greatly improved, but the pass defense is a mess. This is a largely an issue with the lack of talent in the front 7. The DL gets no push on pass plays - we lack even one above average pass rusher. There is not a single DL that the opposing offense really has to scheme against. Our LB's are fantastic in run support but a liability in pass defense and opposing OC's have figured that out and are abusing them in pass D. Also, this is one of the worst defenses i've ever seen in terms of Havoc plays. Excluding the VMI game, the defense has 2 sacks and 2 fumble recoveries, 0 INT's on the season. Opposing QB's largely know they are going to have time to throw. GT's defense has also allowed 8 conversions on 11 fourth down attempts.

Special teams has an issue with FG kicking. GT is just 3-7 on FG's and just 1 made FG of over 40 yards (1-5 overall I believe). I believe Birr has also missed every field goal attempt from the right hash. He seems to start right and it never comes back. If the ball is on the right hash i'd rather go for it than attempt a FG.

Before the season I thought this was probably a 6-7 win team. I'm still feeling that, though probably leaning more toward 6-6. 5-7 to 7-5 is where I expect this team to end up.

I don't see a team that has made any significant step forward to this point this season. There are some things it is doing better than last year but just as many things it is doing worse. Pretty much a wash.

The coaching staff desperately wants this to be a smash mouth running team, but it simply is not that and if they don't adjust then there are plenty of losses left on the schedule.

Excellent summary Red. Key desperately wants to play "smash mouth", but he doesn't YET have the players to execute that. The short yardage misses are due to that belief; we can muscle the DL, and we simply can't. Last year the OL got good angle blocks from the "eye candy" and motion stuff. We never drove the DL back off the ball. More talent is needed on DL for sure. NIL $ need to go there.

 

[sonngy]

I watched the highlights of the game today and I actually feel a lot better about the game. The two boneheaded plays that directly costed us 14 points was literally the difference. If we bring this level effort with just smarter play from both the coaches and Haynes King, I like our chances for the rest of the season. Syracuse is the only game so far where I felt like we were dominated and we still only lost by 3. The team will breakthrough soon and it will be awesome when it does

 

[Techwood Relict]

The team will breakthrough soon and it will be awesome when it does

A good cup of coffee does wonders for one's outlook...

 

[RamblinRed]

Not strong enough?
Not accurate?
He is our passer and rusher.

This game we went vertical and unfortunately we didnt score from outside the 20.


I ll gladly take my chances with king.
A clean pocket, wr that get separation, and can high point the ball impact the passing game.

As I have said before he is easily our best player on offense and i'm glad he is our QB. But lets not overrate him either.
He is a very good college QB, but not a great one.

His arm is above average but it isn't great - the ball doesn't really jump off of it. He is often late and/or behind on his throws.
He hasn't been sacked this year and alot of that has to do with his ability to move and scramble.
He is a dangerous runner if he gets some space.

I've been quite impressed with him this year, but he is not a guy who is going to 'hero ball' you to a win consistently.

 

[Root4GT]

As I have said before he is easily our best player on offense and i'm glad he is our QB. But lets not overrate him either.
He is a very good college QB, but not a great one.

His arm is above average but it isn't great - the ball doesn't really jump off of it. He is often late and/or behind on his throws.
He hasn't been sacked this year and alot of that has to do with his ability to move and scramble.
He is a dangerous runner if he gets some space.

I've been quite impressed with him this year, but he is not a guy who is going to 'hero ball' you to a win consistently.

100% agree with this assessment!

 

[g0lftime]

This article might interest you and others. Mack has backed off his earlier comments. He will be back at work. I see no mention of TFG in this article.

North Carolina's Mack Brown isn't planning to resign after telling team he'd step down if he was the problem

North Carolina coach Mack Brown reportedly offered to step down after the Tar Heels' 70–50 loss at home to James Madison. However, he backed off from that later.

sports.yahoo.com

Monday Durham paper has several things to say about TFG. Not complimentary. Complaining about past DC's as well. Systemic problem since Mack has been back. Got to wonder what contract TFG managed to get out of them. He talks a good game.

 

[bobongo]

Monday Durham paper has several things to say about TFG. Not complimentary. Complaining about past DC's as well. Systemic problem since Mack has been back. Got to wonder what contract TFG managed to get out of them. He talks a good game.

Two years, $1.1 million a year. Subject to "periodic review".

Collins, Geoff contract 2024 - University of North Carolina Athletics

Collins, Geoff contract 2024

goheels.com

 

[g0lftime]

Two years, $1.1 million a year. Subject to "periodic review".

Collins, Geoff contract 2024 - University of North Carolina Athletics

Collins, Geoff contract 2024

goheels.com

Mack likely gone in two years. Maybe this year. Fans in Chapel Hill not happy. I have an acquaintance where I play golf that is a former QB for them. Very involved with the program, both sons played there and daughter was a cheerleader. Hope to see him on the range to find out what he thinks about the program. He is a good guy.

 

[iceeater1969]

Excellent summary Red. Key desperately wants to play "smash mouth", but he doesn't YET have the players to execute that. The short yardage misses are due to that belief; we can muscle the DL, and we simply can't. Last year the OL got good angle blocks from the "eye candy" and motion stuff. We never drove the DL back off the ball. More talent is needed on DL for sure. NIL $ need to go there.

TFP was totally delusional that regular players will perform at elite level by eating ice cream at practice.

Key said he is going to fix the problem in bye week. We will see if against Duke and UNC "can ol dominate. Will that mean we can hang with nd, mia, uga.

Key needs to fix his system that allowed the bully boys to play soft or get out schemed.

 

[jojatk]

If the OL pushed people around when it counted the play calling for middle runs wouldn’t be questioned. They pushed no one around. Without a doubt the OL was responsible for that loss.

So the OL very clearly told our coaches all game long who they were. At what point is it the job of the coach to call something different. If I repeatedly show you I am physically incapable of doing something the way you want me to do it and you still need to get the job done then when is it your responsibility to have me try something else to accomplish the task? Considering that maybe later you can fire me or train me better to do the job the way you want it done. But for right now I have the limitations and am stuck that way and you still need to get the job done.

Yes I am culpable for not being able to get it done that way. Yes I bear responsibility for it. But sometimes the leader has to take responsibility for not recognizing it and trying to change things up.

 

[GTJake]

Honestly I don't even look at a game like VMI - they are glorified scrimmages - very seldom does what a team do against an FCS opponent translate against a P4 opponent.

It is absolutely true that the reason King has thrown over 30 passes in most of those games is that we are behind and having to throw. That is the issue. King is not someone you really want airing the ball out 30+ times a game, he isn't strong enough and accurate enough for that to work consistently. But right now our running game is so broke it is sort of what we are having to do because we are playing catchup in the second half against teams with similar talent.

Unlike some here I don't think GT is more talented than L'ville - i'd say the talent is relatively equivalent. Same tier if you want.
What I did see though is one team had a stronger coaching staff. Defensively L'ville was able to take away what GT wants to do first. Offensively, they figured out what GT's weakness was and exploited it.

I would argue that right now we are a better passing team than rushing team and should use the pass to set up the run rather than the reverse.

Agree with equivalent talent, our young inexperienced coaching staff vs. a stronger staff and King's passing attempts.

But, my point on coaching inexperience is this. No matter what has worked from previous games, if its not working in THIS game, try something else, Especially by the 4thQ on a possible game winning drive, forget the game plan if it hasn't worked by now and go for the win.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

So the OL very clearly told our coaches all game long who they were. At what point is it the job of the coach to call something different. If I repeatedly show you I am physically incapable of doing something the way you want me to do it and you still need to get the job done then when is it your responsibility to have me try something else to accomplish the task? Considering that maybe later you can fire me or train me better to do the job the way you want it done. But for right now I have the limitations and am stuck that way and you still need to get the job done.

Yes I am culpable for not being able to get it done that way. Yes I bear responsibility for it. But sometimes the leader has to take responsibility for not recognizing it and trying to change things up.

There is plenty of blame to go around for both players and coaches with regards to the OL and the play calling. Neither did their job well this weekend.

 

[4shotB]

So the OL very clearly told our coaches all game long who they were. At what point is it the job of the coach to call something different. If I repeatedly show you I am physically incapable of doing something the way you want me to do it and you still need to get the job done then when is it your responsibility to have me try something else to accomplish the task? Considering that maybe later you can fire me or train me better to do the job the way you want it done. But for right now I have the limitations and am stuck that way and you still need to get the job done.

Yes I am culpable for not being able to get it done that way. Yes I bear responsibility for it. But sometimes the leader has to take responsibility for not recognizing it and trying to change things up.

I am reminded of the classic definition of insanity which is oftentimes incorrectly attributed to Einstein...the one about doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Coaches can get wedded to a certain way of doing things. Cremins, Tenuta, CPJ come immediately to mind. However our greatest strengths can be our greatest weaknesses. I may be incorrect in my recall of things, the best thing about Ralph F was that he could beat you by attacking your weaknesses and by keeping you guessing as to what he waas going to do. Sure, he (like all coaches) wanted to pound the ball but he wasn't locked into that solely. For this reason, he may have been the greatest coordinator I have seen on either side of the ball, both here and elsewhere in college FB.

 

[Techwood Relict]

I am reminded of the classic definition of insanity which is oftentimes incorrectly attributed to Einstein...the one about doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results

GT running up the middle on Saturday.....