JacketFromUGA
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 4,895
lol just wait till your campaign season.
Josh Pastner?
- Thread starter up state jacket
- Start date
- Messages
- 5,740
I'll start with contract info and then move on to the bigger issues this topic revolves around.
There's good news and bad news with Pastner's contract. The good news is we are not paying him that much - $1.7MM this year, $1.9MM next year and it slowly raises every year to an eventual $2.3MM. $2.3MM is about the median number in the ACC, so we are paying him well under the median (he's probably the second lowest paid coach outside of Christian at BC). His first 2 yrs was supplemented by money from Memphis, that ends this spring.
Gregory's buyout ends this spring and Hewitt's last $900K pays out over the next year. None of that means GT is going to be in the market.
Because this is considered a big rebuild job Pastner's contract is 100% guaranteed through spring 2021. So if you fire him at any time before that you would owe him the full remaining balance of his contract. That likely would have been needed to hire any coach. Any coach who was interested would want guarantees they would be given time to turn things around and you do that through the contract. MBob had a handshake agreement with Bryce Drew but Vandy came in at the last minute and was able to snatch him away. GT then talked to 3-4 other potential coaches who decided to stay where they were until they got around to Pastner.
GT wasn't 2 yrs ago and still isn't yet in the position to make high money offers to attract really high level coaches. GT got into a little bidding war with Vandy for Bryce Drew topping out at around $2.2-2.3MM, but Vandy just went higher (rumored $2.7-2.8MM) to wrap him up.
Unless something comes up where Pastner is fired with cause, he is not going anywhere until 2021.
On to the bigger issues. My wife, a former auditor, read the big spread in the AJC today on Ron and Josh and then we spent some time talking about it, which is always fun as she puts on her auditor hat.
Her only issue with Pastner was the trip to AZ for JO and Tad. She feels that feels funny, like he should have known. I did tell her that both JO and Tad told both GT and the NCAA that they took that trip without telling Pastner and were told by Ron not to tell him. She's not 100% convinced with that story, but if they are consistent with it, so be it. She felt Pastner should have been more careful about who he allowed close to the program - that is on him (I agree with that), but she also saw how it appeared Josh was starting to try to distance himself from Ron and his gf but it ended up being too little, too late. She does feel bad for Pastner to the extent that it appears he was trying to help somebody and it ended up biting him in his a**. She also felt like the trip was hardly the worst thing schools were doing to try to win or keep kids, GT just happened to get caught doing something.
Her thoughts on Ron is that he is a con man and an extortion artist. She doesn't feel you can believe anything that comes out of his mouth. She also noticed that in the article he often says he can show the journalist something, but he seldom actually does - or at least it is never mentioned that he does.
She also believes that Ron is extorting his gf somehow. The fact she signed over half her house sounds very fishy. The calls by her parents to the police. My wife is actually quite upset over the assault charges because she believes they are bogus and that Ron is putting his gf up to them. She thinks the allegations don't fit what is known about Pastner and also feels the hotel room scene does not ring true.
She feels he is using the current environment to try to take down someone that has been nice to him and it could make it harder for women who are truly in that position to be heard.
My wife also finds it unlikely that GT has known about these charges for multiple months and has done nothing but sit on them - not with things like Penn St. She believes they likely have already investigated them internally.
Everyone has a right to make up his/her own mind but I found it interesting to talk to someone that tends to take a very critical eye to things and hasn't really been following it to this point and get her viewpoint. Both my wife and i share the opinion that if Pastner is found to have committed the alleged assaults he should be fired, but neither believe that likelihood is very high. My wife's final thought was that it is a shame that Pastner is going to have to live with this for the rest of his life when he likely as just trying to help someone who turned on him and just seems out to try to destroy him.
There's good news and bad news with Pastner's contract. The good news is we are not paying him that much - $1.7MM this year, $1.9MM next year and it slowly raises every year to an eventual $2.3MM. $2.3MM is about the median number in the ACC, so we are paying him well under the median (he's probably the second lowest paid coach outside of Christian at BC). His first 2 yrs was supplemented by money from Memphis, that ends this spring.
Gregory's buyout ends this spring and Hewitt's last $900K pays out over the next year. None of that means GT is going to be in the market.
Because this is considered a big rebuild job Pastner's contract is 100% guaranteed through spring 2021. So if you fire him at any time before that you would owe him the full remaining balance of his contract. That likely would have been needed to hire any coach. Any coach who was interested would want guarantees they would be given time to turn things around and you do that through the contract. MBob had a handshake agreement with Bryce Drew but Vandy came in at the last minute and was able to snatch him away. GT then talked to 3-4 other potential coaches who decided to stay where they were until they got around to Pastner.
GT wasn't 2 yrs ago and still isn't yet in the position to make high money offers to attract really high level coaches. GT got into a little bidding war with Vandy for Bryce Drew topping out at around $2.2-2.3MM, but Vandy just went higher (rumored $2.7-2.8MM) to wrap him up.
Unless something comes up where Pastner is fired with cause, he is not going anywhere until 2021.
On to the bigger issues. My wife, a former auditor, read the big spread in the AJC today on Ron and Josh and then we spent some time talking about it, which is always fun as she puts on her auditor hat.
Her only issue with Pastner was the trip to AZ for JO and Tad. She feels that feels funny, like he should have known. I did tell her that both JO and Tad told both GT and the NCAA that they took that trip without telling Pastner and were told by Ron not to tell him. She's not 100% convinced with that story, but if they are consistent with it, so be it. She felt Pastner should have been more careful about who he allowed close to the program - that is on him (I agree with that), but she also saw how it appeared Josh was starting to try to distance himself from Ron and his gf but it ended up being too little, too late. She does feel bad for Pastner to the extent that it appears he was trying to help somebody and it ended up biting him in his a**. She also felt like the trip was hardly the worst thing schools were doing to try to win or keep kids, GT just happened to get caught doing something.
Her thoughts on Ron is that he is a con man and an extortion artist. She doesn't feel you can believe anything that comes out of his mouth. She also noticed that in the article he often says he can show the journalist something, but he seldom actually does - or at least it is never mentioned that he does.
She also believes that Ron is extorting his gf somehow. The fact she signed over half her house sounds very fishy. The calls by her parents to the police. My wife is actually quite upset over the assault charges because she believes they are bogus and that Ron is putting his gf up to them. She thinks the allegations don't fit what is known about Pastner and also feels the hotel room scene does not ring true.
She feels he is using the current environment to try to take down someone that has been nice to him and it could make it harder for women who are truly in that position to be heard.
My wife also finds it unlikely that GT has known about these charges for multiple months and has done nothing but sit on them - not with things like Penn St. She believes they likely have already investigated them internally.
Everyone has a right to make up his/her own mind but I found it interesting to talk to someone that tends to take a very critical eye to things and hasn't really been following it to this point and get her viewpoint. Both my wife and i share the opinion that if Pastner is found to have committed the alleged assaults he should be fired, but neither believe that likelihood is very high. My wife's final thought was that it is a shame that Pastner is going to have to live with this for the rest of his life when he likely as just trying to help someone who turned on him and just seems out to try to destroy him.
New Old Guy
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 319
Red,
I agree with your analysis (and your auditor-wife’s). Based on my personal exposure to CJP, and my experiences traveling with the team, the allegations regarding events at the team hotel and at team meals are very, very hard to believe. Comments and charges by Ron Bell and his gf appear to me to be highly suspect — no, I actually consider them outright lies. Like you, if evidence of Josh’s misconduct do come to light, that is a different matter. But, absent that, EVERYTHING that I have seen and know to be true tells me something different. IMO CJP tried to befriend and help a guy that turned out to be evil and crazy, and also vindictive once Josh tried to sever the relationship. Josh is now paying the price for his past good intentions.
But, unfortunately, in today’s world, and especially to those that see only the headlines (or only read the account in the AJC), it is easy to assume the worst — where there is smoke there’s fire, as the saying goes. Josh, his family, and Georgia Tech really have no choice but to live with that reality. But for “fans” of GT MBB who are, or should be, better informed than the random headline-reader-somewhere-in-Idaho, there is little excuse. A lot of the comments on this forum in recent days are hard to understand, and even harder to condone. I have had to employ the “ignore” feature way more often than I like, just to keep my blood pressure in check.
YlJacket
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 3,201
If Pastner has half the legal staff I expect he has, over the offseason we will see the GT IC report come back negative and the charges against him quietly disappear. Getting it off the front burner is another reason to get this season over and come back fresh next year.
GTbball2016
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,104
I'm as rough on Pastner as anyone on here, and any calls to fire him strictly due to his record this year are insane.
D-man44
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,799
You are insane if you want Pastner gone at all!
GTbball2016
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,104
He absolutely shouldn't be fired right now just due to allegations. As everyone agrees, he's 100 percent back next year unless something comes up in the investigation or FBI stuff. On the court, he's had one of the best coaching years I've seen at GT and one of the worst. No idea what to expect next year but could definitely live with it being drama-free
Andewa
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 257
Great write up. Thanks! I'm 100% on Pastner's side. Regarding your wife's attitude toward the trip and CPast not knowing about it: Remember the trip "was during a period when the NCAA allows no organized basketball activities." I find it easy to believe CPast didn't know where the kids where.
Andewa
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 257
were*
mstranahan
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,553
I don’t know all the details of various coaches’ contracts or school finances. I do have season tickets at six D1 schools this year so can tell you the donation levels and ticket prices vary greatly based on the teams performance, not arena capacity
My current GT seats are in a fantastic location. Mid court , a couple rows behind the scorers table.
I have a pair at Clemson that aren’t as good (lower level, corner, 20th row) but the required donation is about 10% of what it is for my Tech seats. Face value on tickets is similar
I have a pair at an A10 school. Similar to my Tech seat location. Donation is about 80% of Tech and ticket prices slightly lower
The other three are all blue blood programs. Annual donation runs 4-5x my Tech Fund for seats in much worse locations. Ticket prices are 2-3x what Tech charges. Despite what someone else posted, no school I buy from ties football donations and tickets as a requirement to get hoops.
Until we can put a premium product on the floor for 20-30 years, we will never have the same ticket revenue as the blue bloods. We get huge payments as an ACC member based on conference success in the NCAAT, so when UNCheat won last year, Tech got a nice check.
Also, Tech may report 6400 as average attendance but that must be tickets sold, not butts in seats. Most OOC games were 70% empty and most ACC games have had 80-90% of the lower bowl filled, but the upper deck has been empty almost every game
My current GT seats are in a fantastic location. Mid court , a couple rows behind the scorers table.
I have a pair at Clemson that aren’t as good (lower level, corner, 20th row) but the required donation is about 10% of what it is for my Tech seats. Face value on tickets is similar
I have a pair at an A10 school. Similar to my Tech seat location. Donation is about 80% of Tech and ticket prices slightly lower
The other three are all blue blood programs. Annual donation runs 4-5x my Tech Fund for seats in much worse locations. Ticket prices are 2-3x what Tech charges. Despite what someone else posted, no school I buy from ties football donations and tickets as a requirement to get hoops.
Until we can put a premium product on the floor for 20-30 years, we will never have the same ticket revenue as the blue bloods. We get huge payments as an ACC member based on conference success in the NCAAT, so when UNCheat won last year, Tech got a nice check.
Also, Tech may report 6400 as average attendance but that must be tickets sold, not butts in seats. Most OOC games were 70% empty and most ACC games have had 80-90% of the lower bowl filled, but the upper deck has been empty almost every game
ncjacket79
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,237
No we pick someone and hopefully grow the program with him, or at least get to a point where we are only paying one coach instead of 3. At the same time TStan works to improve the financial situation to get us on a competitive footing with the schools we compete with. You do realize we have the same problem in football where EVERY other team in the ACC has a bigger non coaching staff to support recruiting, scouting and game planning than we do right?
YlJacket
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 3,201
BeeRBee
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 228
I think the part of this that bothers me the most is that Josh and Tadric agreed not to tell anyone. At times I’ve thought there should have been a longer suspension by GT; other times I’ve wondered about whether the staff was effective in establishing relationships with the players, and putting in place the culture of compliance Pastner says he wants.
Regardless, I’m well aware of how little I know about what actually happened. I hope CJP moves past this, and is successful in building the type of program he talks about.
Regardless, I’m well aware of how little I know about what actually happened. I hope CJP moves past this, and is successful in building the type of program he talks about.
- Messages
- 9,456
- Location
- Oriental, NC
WHEN I was a player, the coaches' constant questions on road trips about where we were going and what we doing got to us at times. We wanted to be treated as adults! I can understand Josh and Tadric thinking there was no real harm in them going to AZ for a weekend. I can almost hear them saying, "Whose gonna know? We're not telling and neither is Ron."
mstranahan
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,553
LOL.... thanks to StubHub, I can offload the tickets for games I can't make (which is most of the ones at other schools) and it makes the whole thing pretty affordable
Jacket Forever
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 123
Clearly, Tadric and Josh made a serious error in judgment in this episode. Thing is, the human brain is not fully developed until age 25 and kids and young adults commonly make mistakes in judgment. Grown folks too. The most bothersome thing to me is that Ron Bell misled Tadric and JO and lead them astray. There is a name for adults who intentionally mislead young people: ‘predator’. Predators should be in jail. ( Note there is a Georgia law which punishes a person who knowingly causes an athlete to violate NCAA reps. )
No doubt Pastner bears some responsibility in not keeping up with his players’ whereabouts. I like Pastner QUITE a lot and even with all the drama, I think we were lucky to find him. I am satisfied that he is a complete basketball junkie and that his very life revolves around (GT Men’s) Basketball. He was misled by Bell and it would also seem that all of the activies involved in getting ready for the trip to China ( passport, immigration issues, cultural classes, other related) were more of a distraction than anyone at GTAA wants to really admit and it made all of Pastner’s and the team’s offseason somewhat unusual. Those things could not have helped make it easier for Pastner to ‘keep up’ with players whereabouts. I swear, I hope we never play outside the US again for a very long time. Nevertheless, Pastner and the program have got to do better in terms of players’ comings and goings. I suspect Pastner has learned from all of this.
Let’s hope.
- Messages
- 10,813
Just this thread is ridiculous? Seems like we have a lot of ridiculous stuff. Maybe we should have one ridiculous thread so we can move all that stuff to the ridiculous thread. [emoji6]
Just because it’s Bell & Pendley doesn’t mean we should ignore it. We’ve set up an independent investigation, and not a fake one like you’d see at some schools, and we’ll see what happens when it plays out. I think the heavier odds are on this being bogus, but weird things do happen.
I’m not trying to put words in your mouth; if I did, it was inadvertent
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
GTFLETCH
Banned
- Messages
- 2,639
Georgia Tech may have to move on from Josh Pastner and this dumpster fire....
"For Pastner, any evidence or testimony that tarnishes his reputation could impact his employment with Georgia Tech. It could also prompt the NCAA to investigate further. The NCAA is likely concerned that, at a minimum, Pastner and Georgia Tech officials seemingly failed to stop Bell from becoming so close to student-athletes. Also, while the NCAA is likely pleased to see Georgia Tech launch an investigation into alleged sexual assaults, the NCAA could open a separate and more independent probe.
If Georgia Tech concludes that Pastner’s conduct violated contractual obligations to maintain a program in compliance with NCAA rules and/or violated contractual obligations to refrain from conduct that damages the reputation of the school, Georgia Tech could elect to fire Pastner “with cause” (also called “for cause”). This is the approach that the University of Louisville used to fire Pitino. It is one where the school saves a great deal of money: the coach isn’t paid any amount on the remainder of the contract."
Good Read
The Potential Legal and NCAA Fallout From Josh Pastner's Lurid Litigation Dispute
Link
https://www.si.com/college-basketba...sh-pastner-lawsuit-sexual-assault-allegations
"For Pastner, any evidence or testimony that tarnishes his reputation could impact his employment with Georgia Tech. It could also prompt the NCAA to investigate further. The NCAA is likely concerned that, at a minimum, Pastner and Georgia Tech officials seemingly failed to stop Bell from becoming so close to student-athletes. Also, while the NCAA is likely pleased to see Georgia Tech launch an investigation into alleged sexual assaults, the NCAA could open a separate and more independent probe.
If Georgia Tech concludes that Pastner’s conduct violated contractual obligations to maintain a program in compliance with NCAA rules and/or violated contractual obligations to refrain from conduct that damages the reputation of the school, Georgia Tech could elect to fire Pastner “with cause” (also called “for cause”). This is the approach that the University of Louisville used to fire Pitino. It is one where the school saves a great deal of money: the coach isn’t paid any amount on the remainder of the contract."
Good Read
The Potential Legal and NCAA Fallout From Josh Pastner's Lurid Litigation Dispute
Link
https://www.si.com/college-basketba...sh-pastner-lawsuit-sexual-assault-allegations
GTFLETCH
Banned
- Messages
- 2,639
What bothers me the most is.... why Josh Pastner is even close friends with this Ron Bell and his girlfriend and gave them access to any Memphis or Georgia Tech Players. That to me is unacceptable and he should be dismissed!
Last edited: