How GT can be consistent Top 25 in recruiting

[Northeast Stinger]

Not only is Duke out spending us they have sociology degree to put their athletes in. That's what the majority of them major in. Duke grades easier than we do. Duke always leads the ACC in graduation rates and all ACC academic teams for a reason. That sociology program is well oiled.

It is way old news now but several years ago there was a well researched article on grade inflation at Duke. Several professors were quoted in the article saying that problem had become acute because so many students were showing up drunk to class they had to find ways to not flunk whole classes out.

 

[Animal02]

I also find this very interesting. Clemson Budget vs Wins. When D-Rad Arrived, he boosted the budget massively (I know, there were other factors going on too)*. It's a sample size of one. But if you want to see a correlation of $$ and Wins:

View attachment 5182

*[Meanwhile Sasquatch was cutting our budget while the rest of the ACC was growing annually by double digits. ]

It can't be a correlation...recruiting is everything about the offensive scheme.

 

[herb]

I also find this very interesting. Clemson Budget vs Wins. When D-Rad Arrived, he boosted the budget massively (I know, there were other factors going on too)*. It's a sample size of one. But if you want to see a correlation of $$ and Wins:

View attachment 5182

*[Meanwhile Sasquatch was cutting our budget while the rest of the ACC was growing annually by double digits. ]

Who would have ever thought the two would have some correlation?

 

[gtstinger776]

There is no reason why a P5 school in Atlanta shouldn't be in the top half (top 32) of P5 CFB. To say that GT shouldn't means you are saying recruits should otherwise prefer towns such as Blackburg VA, Waco TX, Iowa City IA, and host of other small towns that pale in comparison to Atlanta.

Second, Ross and O'Leary brought in top 25 caliber talent - they both spent a lot of time recruiting at P5 schools prior to taking the GT HC job. I think the recruiting skeptics need to more thoughtfully compare the backgrounds of our coaches. Johnson and Gailey did NOT come from backgrounds that required them to engage in the war that is P5 CFB recruiting. They are both accomplished coaches, but neither is really a recruiter / salesman at heart. Both are kind of X's and O's geeks.

• Johnson was the HC at the Naval Academy during wartime. Second, Navy has not scholarship limits - they can take as many players as they want. Finally, the Naval Academy isn't exactly recruiting against P5 schools - they are going after a niche group of athletes interested in a military career.
• Before taking the GT job, Gailey spent 1 of his prior 15 years in CFB (HC of Samford). Like Johnson, he wasn't a recruiter. In NFL circles, he has a reputation for being a X's and O's geek (Yes - I recognize the irony given how inept our offense was when he was HC).

 

[herb]

There is no reason why a P5 school in Atlanta shouldn't be in the top half (top 32) of P5 CFB. To say that GT shouldn't means you are saying recruits should otherwise prefer towns such as Blackburg VA, Waco TX, Iowa City IA, and host of other small towns that pale in comparison to Atlanta.

Second, Ross and O'Leary brought in top 25 caliber talent - they both spent a lot of time recruiting at P5 schools prior to taking the GT HC job. I think the recruiting skeptics need to more thoughtfully compare the backgrounds of our coaches. Johnson and Gailey did NOT come from backgrounds that required them to engage in the war that is P5 CFB recruiting. They are both accomplished coaches, but neither is really a recruiter / salesman at heart. Both are kind of X's and O's geeks.

• Johnson was the HC at the Naval Academy during wartime. Second, Navy has not scholarship limits - they can take as many players as they want. Finally, the Naval Academy isn't exactly recruiting against P5 schools - they are going after a niche group of athletes interested in a military career.
• Before taking the GT job, Gailey spent 1 of his prior 15 years in CFB (HC of Samford). Like Johnson, he wasn't a recruiter. In NFL circles, he has a reputation for being a X's and O's geek (Yes - I recognize the irony given how inept our offense was when he was HC).

You make some good points. I would add though that not everyone is as in love with Atlanta as you are. Rightfully or wrongly, some prefer the smaller town. Neither is right, everyone is allowed to have a preference.

Also, while I think you are correct regarding the prior recruiting experience (while noting that Ross is generally regarded as HATING that part and one reason he went to the nfl) our spending on football at that time was much higher relative to our peers. This point is one reason a lot of folks were against Whisenhunt.

 

[Animal02]

There is no reason why a P5 school in Atlanta shouldn't be in the top half (top 32) of P5 CFB. To say that GT shouldn't means you are saying recruits should otherwise prefer towns such as Blackburg VA, Waco TX, Iowa City IA, and host of other small towns that pale in comparison to Atlanta.

Second, Ross and O'Leary brought in top 25 caliber talent - they both spent a lot of time recruiting at P5 schools prior to taking the GT HC job. I think the recruiting skeptics need to more thoughtfully compare the backgrounds of our coaches. Johnson and Gailey did NOT come from backgrounds that required them to engage in the war that is P5 CFB recruiting. They are both accomplished coaches, but neither is really a recruiter / salesman at heart. Both are kind of X's and O's geeks.

• 
  

First.....big city life is not for everyone......for every kid that yearns for the big city, you can find one that relishes the small towns.
Second, the Naval Academy, like all NCAA teams, has a roster limit, of IIRC 110....the 25 person difference between roster and scholly's considering how schools do preferred walk ons etc......is pretty minor.
To insist CPJ and Gailey were not recruiters is just nonsense. One does not have to make public every move you make to be a recruiter.

 

[gtstinger776]

First.....big city life is not for everyone......for every kid that yearns for the big city, you can find one that relishes the small towns.
Second, the Naval Academy, like all NCAA teams, has a roster limit, of IIRC 110....the 25 person difference between roster and scholly's considering how schools do preferred walk ons etc......is pretty minor.
To insist CPJ and Gailey were not recruiters is just nonsense. One does not have to make public every move you make to be a recruiter.

1st - big city life may not be for everyone, and I respect that. But I think one of the hypotheses behind CGC’s recruiting strategy / narrative: Big city life is compelling to a broader constituency of CFB talent than what we’ve been attracting.

2nd - my main point with navy is that it is a completely different recruiting process and roster mgmt strategy than P5 CFB. I know a lot of West Pointers and Navy folks - most of them would say they began aspiring to attend those schools and pursue that life / career at a very young age...not at a hat ceremony.

3rd - Johnson / Gailey are good men who are very football smart. I really liked Coach Johnson for his brilliant football accumen and genuine personality. That ability / personality is compelling to some. But again the hypothesis I hold with CGC is that the CEO recruiter salesman type (e.g. Dabo Sweeney) is more effective at building a stronger recruiting brand and reach. I didn’t need to observe Johnson in a living room to know that he’s not as excited about building a strong recruiting brand as he is about watching film and hanging out with players. Social media / 247 contact is cruicial for targeting younger demographics.

 

[Animal02]

1st - big city life may not be for everyone, and I respect that. But I think one of the hypotheses behind CGC’s recruiting strategy / narrative: Big city life is compelling to a broader constituency of CFB talent than what we’ve been attracting.

2nd - my main point with navy is that it is a completely different recruiting process and roster mgmt strategy than P5 CFB. I know a lot of West Pointers and Navy folks - most of them would say they began aspiring to attend those schools and pursue that life / career at a very young age...not at a hat ceremony.

3rd - Johnson / Gailey are good men who are very football smart. I really liked Coach Johnson for his brilliant football accumen and genuine personality. That ability / personality is compelling to some. But again the hypothesis I hold with CGC is that the CEO recruiter salesman type (e.g. Dabo Sweeney) is more effective at building a stronger recruiting brand and reach. I didn’t need to observe Johnson in a living room to know that he’s not as excited about building a strong recruiting brand as he is about watching film and hanging out with players. Social media / 247 contact is cruicial for targeting younger demographics.

Lots of hypotheses, and nothing proven as of yet.........and people wonder why so many of us remain with the "wait and see" stance.

 

[bobongo]

Lots of hypotheses, and nothing proven as of yet.........and people wonder why so many of us remain with the "wait and see" stance.

The main thing I'm waiting to see is whether we can get some big uglies in here on the offensive line. The new staff did great this year in limited time and recruiting space, but we got one grad transfer and one pwo on the OL this year (not counting tight ends). That's going to be the real litmus test, because all these wonderful "skill" players will be all dressed up and nowhere to go without an offensive line. I give them an "A" for this year. Next year is wait and see, but there's ample reason to hope.

 

[Animal02]

The main thing I'm waiting to see is whether we can get some big uglies in here on the offensive line. The new staff did great this year in limited time and recruiting space, but we got one grad transfer and one pwo on the OL this year (not counting tight ends). That's going to be the real litmus test, because all these wonderful "skill" players will be all dressed up and nowhere to go without an offensive line. I give them an "A" for this year. Next year is wait and see, but there's ample reason to hope.

Also have to see how this staff works on game day........you can have all the big uglies you want and end up like FSU.

 

[bos]

GT needs to at least be the 3rd best recruiting team in the Division to stay competitive. They were 5th last year, only better than Duke and Pittsburgh. North Carolina is taking a huge leap.

 

[bobongo]

Also have to see how this staff works on game day........you can have all the big uglies you want and end up like FSU.

That, too. I was just referencing the recruiting aspect.

 

[WreckinGT]

There is no reason why a P5 school in Atlanta shouldn't be in the top half (top 32) of P5 CFB. To say that GT shouldn't means you are saying recruits should otherwise prefer towns such as Blackburg VA, Waco TX, Iowa City IA, and host of other small towns that pale in comparison to Atlanta.

Second, Ross and O'Leary brought in top 25 caliber talent - they both spent a lot of time recruiting at P5 schools prior to taking the GT HC job. I think the recruiting skeptics need to more thoughtfully compare the backgrounds of our coaches. Johnson and Gailey did NOT come from backgrounds that required them to engage in the war that is P5 CFB recruiting. They are both accomplished coaches, but neither is really a recruiter / salesman at heart. Both are kind of X's and O's geeks.

• Johnson was the HC at the Naval Academy during wartime. Second, Navy has not scholarship limits - they can take as many players as they want. Finally, the Naval Academy isn't exactly recruiting against P5 schools - they are going after a niche group of athletes interested in a military career.
• Before taking the GT job, Gailey spent 1 of his prior 15 years in CFB (HC of Samford). Like Johnson, he wasn't a recruiter. In NFL circles, he has a reputation for being a X's and O's geek (Yes - I recognize the irony given how inept our offense was when he was HC).

Here is an old discussion on another GT site about Bobby Ross's recruiting: https://stingtalk.com/board/threads/bobby-rosss-recruiting-classes-1987-1991.11511/. It's pretty questionable how effective of a recruiter he was outside of a couple of key pieces. O'Learys early classes weren't great either, although they seemed to improve later on in his tenure. Either way, recruiting was completely different in those days and is in my opinion significantly harder now. Collins may be the coach who can push us to levels we haven't seen before and didn't think were possible, but like others, im going to take a wait and see approach here. Just being in Atlanta doesn't erase everything working against us.

 

[Animal02]

Here is an old discussion on another GT site about Bobby Ross's recruiting: https://stingtalk.com/board/threads/bobby-rosss-recruiting-classes-1987-1991.11511/. It's pretty questionable how effective of a recruiter he was outside of a couple of key pieces. O'Learys early classes weren't great either, although they seemed to improve later on in his tenure. Either way, recruiting was completely different in those days and is in my opinion significantly harder now. Collins may be the coach who can push us to levels we haven't seen before and didn't think were possible, but like others, im going to take a wait and see approach here. Just being in Atlanta doesn't erase everything working against us.

It is just as easy (if not easier) to negative recruit against a "big city" as it is to recruit for it. If I was recruiting against Tech.....I would bring a city of Altanta crime map to show the parents....as well as images of the local gentlemen's clubs etc....asking parents if they really want their children "there".

 

[GTRock]

It is just as easy (if not easier) to negative recruit against a "big city" as it is to recruit for it. If I was recruiting against Tech.....I would bring a city of Altanta crime map to show the parents....as well as images of the local gentlemen's clubs etc....asking parents if they really want their children "there".

That could easily backfire/turnoff kids you're trying to recruit these days. Many may not appreciate those type of scare tactics. May not choose Tech but won't choose you either.

 

[Animal02]

That could easily backfire/turnoff kids you're trying to recruit these days. Many may not appreciate those type of scare tactics. May not choose Tech but won't choose you either.

It is not the kids you aim that tactic at

 

[GTRock]

It is not the kids you aim that tactic at

Lol I know. But if they get that you used it in their parent(s)/elders...

 

[GTpdm]

It is just as easy (if not easier) to negative recruit against a "big city" as it is to recruit for it. If I was recruiting against Tech.....I would bring a city of Altanta crime map to show the parents....as well as images of the local gentlemen's clubs etc....asking parents if they really want their children "there".

Well, that would be one way for us to steal recruits away from Miami, I guess...

 

[Vespidae]

Lots of discussion on recruiting which I find fascinating.

I visit Knoxville and Athens both regularly. I've been to Knoxville at night when the Vols light up the stadium for recruits, get the Jumbotron going and walk the recruits through all the historical sites on campus. To say they are impressed is an understatement. They KNOW they are wanted. And in a town like Knoxville, Vol players rule.

Athens. I've seen the recruit buses pull up to restaurants and the town turn out to cheer the recruits. Small town atmosphere. And the kids love it. Heck, many of them are from even smaller towns and this feels to them ... like they are somebody.

I'm not sure what Tech does. I've lived in Atlanta almost 40 years and never seen a Tech recruit tour, or a Tech event at a local establishment. No call to turn out alumni to support the recruits. I did see 6 of them wandering around campus once, by themselves.

It's all part of the experience. I think Tech needs to up its' game on the Recruiting Experience.

Can we be Top 30? No. Can we get good players and develop them? Yes.

 

[g0lftime]

Lots of discussion on recruiting which I find fascinating.

I visit Knoxville and Athens both regularly. I've been to Knoxville at night when the Vols light up the stadium for recruits, get the Jumbotron going and walk the recruits through all the historical sites on campus. To say they are impressed is an understatement. They KNOW they are wanted. And in a town like Knoxville, Vol players rule.

Athens. I've seen the recruit buses pull up to restaurants and the town turn out to cheer the recruits. Small town atmosphere. And the kids love it. Heck, many of them are from even smaller towns and this feels to them ... like they are somebody.

I'm not sure what Tech does. I've lived in Atlanta almost 40 years and never seen a Tech recruit tour, or a Tech event at a local establishment. No call to turn out alumni to support the recruits. I did see 6 of them wandering around campus once, by themselves.

It's all part of the experience. I think Tech needs to up its' game on the Recruiting Experience.

Can we be Top 30? No. Can we get good players and develop them? Yes.

Atlanta has pro sports and all the entertainment someone could want. Once on campus the big city part is isolated other than seeing the tall buildings and hearing the traffic. Life revolves around the campus as a student but all the big stuff is not far, including some not so good stuff. I enjoy the city when I visit but don't want to live there any more. I hate the traffic.