Has it come to this?

[ilovetheoption]

By the way, @ilovethezima, you also made your post after the third game of the Mendenhall era which has shown steady improvement: 2-10 (1-7); 6-7 (3-5); 8-5 (4-4); expected to play for ACCCG. I wish CGC had the same proven track record as Bronco.

Guilty admission time: I always thought Zima was good. I still like "girly" drinks. I think most beers taste like ***, and most liqours do, too, unless you cover them up with fruit or soda or something.

Like, I know this makes me less manly, but I'm just too old to care about that at this point.

 

[Dustman]

Reading this thread, I was reminded of an earlier conversation ...



(For the record, uva did defeat Central Michigan that week, and Duke the next week for their 2 wins of the season, and GT only scored 31 in beating them 31-17)

Then I added a bit later in the thread, in response to someone else, ...

Solid gold! I remember this discussion now. Great recall @AE 87

 

[Jd89]

It’s easier to accept a tough transition of Tech’s offensive scheme. Just having to work around QBs recruited to run Coach Johnson’s offense (that is, primarily running QBs) is certainly a challenge. It takes passing repetitions to be proficient at passing, it takes time to learn to see the whole field, it takes time for WRs and QBs to get on the same page. But, I cannot understand how an average FBS option team should be able to blitz our defense with the triple option, given our familiarity with that scheme.

Get what u r saying but I am not sure our defense actually practiced to defend against a triple option while coached by PJ. It was the offense running a triple option, not a defense trained in triple option defense.

 

[Longestday]

@ilovetheoption has hit the nail on the head. GT is not a desirable job for someone with options for the reason he listed. If we get a coach that is halfway good with a traditional method, someone with more cash and easier/bigger/more appealing "culture" is going to snatch'em up.

and I don't think the current coach is the best "option" GT could get...

I thought GT would win no more than 3 games this year due to the transition and schedule. I had hope that I would see excellent coaching struggling with a new system with option players. I am not sure that is what I see. I also thought we may lose to USF (I did not realize they went off the rails last year) and beat Citadel and Temple plus one more that bounced our way ... so I am fallible for sure.

I'll admit the current AD did so many good things... I gave him the benefit of the doubt that this is the best GT could get... We have him for 4 years for better or worse due to money issues. I just could not get excited without the data.... data over hype!

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Guilty admission time: I always thought Zima was good. I still like "girly" drinks. I think most beers taste like ***, and most liqours do, too, unless you cover them up with fruit or soda or something.

Like, I know this makes me less manly, but I'm just too old to care about that at this point.

You still have time to learn to enjoy the good things in life.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Losing to Citadel is inexcusable. GT should never lose to Citadel...but it's sports, and it happens. It's embarrassing for us, but you move on.

However, it's become evident that a LOT of GT fans don't want to accept CGC and will forever wait in the weeds looking to jump out at any misstep. There were GT fans that did the same when CPJ was here, same for Gailey, same for O'Leary, and same for Ross. No good comes from our own fanbase fracturing and trying to beat down a coach THREE GAMES into a tenure. Some people don't want to accept change, and that's fine. When you don't accept change and want to hurt your own program at the same time...well, that's a problem. There's nothing wrong with voicing criticism, but there a quite a few on here going beyond the pale. That's a shame because in reality you're making it about you and not GT. You know who you are...

It’s not rejecting change in general, but change specific.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Mark Richt built nothing because UGAG was loaded with talent when he took over as head football coach in 2001.

True but he was more successful than Donnan and improved the recruiting marginally. He was a tough row for us to hoe that is for sure. He came so close but could not win the big one and had the misfortune of being in the same division with Urban Meyer and the Gators. He was a good coach, not a great one as shown by his tenure at Miami where it became evident the game had largely passed him by.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

We were like 5 plays from being 4-9 brother.

Are you kidding me? The same could be said in reverse for ‘15.... brother.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

There are different tiers to each star. For example there is a huge difference between a 5.5 3 start and 5.7 3 star and there is a 30 point difference ranking on the Rivals site for example between the 2. Avg star rating is not a solid way of looking at it.

So scientific. All that quantitative data.

 

[Animal02]

Losing to Citadel is inexcusable. GT should never lose to Citadel...but it's sports, and it happens. It's embarrassing for us, but you move on.

However, it's become evident that a LOT of GT fans don't want to accept CGC and will forever wait in the weeds looking to jump out at any misstep. There were GT fans that did the same when CPJ was here, same for Gailey, same for O'Leary, and same for Ross. No good comes from our own fanbase fracturing and trying to beat down a coach THREE GAMES into a tenure. Some people don't want to accept change, and that's fine. When you don't accept change and want to hurt your own program at the same time...well, that's a problem. There's nothing wrong with voicing criticism, but there a quite a few on here going beyond the pale. That's a shame because in reality you're making it about you and not GT. You know who you are...

BS. Several people had reservations about the hire and did not buy into the hype like so many gullible posters. Now that some of what caused the reservations have become apparent (inexperience for one, and point that out.......the same gullible posters now cry that we hate CPGC and hope for his failure. The same people that whine about complaints "hurting the program" were the loudest ones hurting the program through the last 11 years. The shame is the hypocrisy of some many posting here,

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

It is a process. I listed Bobby Ross' tenure at GT below and he didn't inherit a system completely obtuse from the one he was implementing. Give CGC time. If he isn't producing results two to three years from now then we can be concerned.

1987 Georgia Tech 2–9

1988 Georgia Tech 3–8

1989 Georgia Tech 7–4

1990 Georgia Tech 11–0–1

1991 Georgia Tech 8–5

In some ways, Coach Ross walked into a situation that was similar to Coach Collins but his job was different in one important respect: Coach Ross had a mutiny on his hands from the get go. The seniors did not like him and made no bones about it. Coach Collins has the support of the players who know and like him. Talent wise, both of them had a lot of work to do. Coach Ross famously said that had he known what a challenge Tech was going to be he never would have come. It took a lot out of him I am sure but he won a national championship with excellent coordinators. That is probably his main advantage over Coach Collins whose coordinators are unproven at present. Also, Coach Ross specifically said that his main challenge at Tech from a talent standpoint was getting faster. We were slow then. Now, speed is not so much the issue as both lines. I do not envy Coach Collins as he has a very difficult two years ahead of him but it can be done. Coach Curry did it, Coach Ross did it and Coach O'Leary did it, that is rebuilding a downtrodden program. He can do it too and he has one advantage those guys did not have: He has a staff of eager and apparently well schooled recruiters and he is in a fertile recruiting area that is far better than it was just 20 years ago.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I don't agree with your assessment of Collins, but there is a whole lot of wisdom in what you're saying. Collins is our shot at making the big time and our AD is fully bought in to his vision. What's next after him? Whisenhunt?

Nope, pro style coaches don't work that well here. See Bud Carson and Chan.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I take back my agreement. lol. I agree with several of your points, but I think the fertile recruiting ground is a way bigger advantage than people think, though. Thus, the emphasis on tapping into it.

You bet it is. There was a time, maybe 30 years ago or so when Pepper was here that Atlanta just did not produce that many good football players. Now they are all over the place. There is enough talent for UGA, Tech, Georgia State, Kennesaw, Georgia Southern and a dozen poachers to get good to great players. All Coach Collins has to do is develop relationships with the high school coaches, and recruit the living daylights out of metro Atlanta going far afield only for linemen. That might take some doing though. Coach Key seems to have a handle on it for the moment.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Hey folks, one other thing to take into account about us. What do we have 11 seniors on the entire team. How many start. Give me a senior laden team of a bunch of 2 and 3 star seniors and I will smash a bunch of 4 and 5 star Freshmen. 2014 is a great example of this

 

[Dpjacket]

To further expand on this, GT is not an attractive job.

You may think that it is. You may think that you have national championships, and a fertile recruiting ground, and "1 in every 6 grads is a millionaire". You would be deceiving yourself.

To an outsider:

• You have an apathetic fanbase that supports the team neither by showing up, nor by financially supporting the program, nor even by having a loud/noticeable public presence
• You have an apathetic, perhaps even hostile administration that does not provide a coach the resources necessary to succeed, and an academic side that is so hostile to sports that it's a running joke AMONG THE FANBASE
• You have marginal facilities
• You have an unattractive academic environment, that the fanbase takes pride in, and makes it seem worse than it is
• You have undervalued a series of above-average coaches. Coaches most programs in your position would be DELIGHTED to have had
• You have a small media presence
• Etc
• Etc
• Etc

You NEED Collins to succeed, because a model like him or Johnson is the best you can reasonably expect to get. Either A) An up and comer hoping to make his name (and it's a bonus if he has a reason to stay at GT if he beats the odds and succeeds) or B) A guy with warts who has something to prove.

If Collins fails, you will be LESS attractive than before, because if he fails, it will have demonstrated that you cannot recruit at GT in 2022 well enough to compete.

So, EVEN IF YOU FIND HIM AWFUL, and you hate his silly money down antics, and his swag chalices, and sideline dance parties, YOU NEED TO BE DANCING YOUR ASSES OFF, because he's the best you're likely to get, and if he's going to win, he's going to have to win his way. It might not work, but it certainly won't help if the fanbase is publically undercutting him all the time.

Like, yes, I personally think he's a clown of the highest magnitute, but if I'm a GT fan, I'm acting like he's the second coming, because there's probably not going to be a third coming.

This is skipping over or false projecting some major key points though:

• Tech is in a P5 conference -- exactly how many of these jobs come up every year? How many coaches are out there? It's attractive on that alone.
• How many coaches did Tech not hire in lieu of Collins because of "fit", whatever? Do you think an Art Biles, or Les Miles would be interested in getting back into the game? Would they be considered a more attractive Coach than Collins? But there was no offer -- in fact, we don't know who might have considered the position, really.
• What are "marginal facilities" anyway? Is there a new ESPN metric for this? What does Tech not provide that, perhaps, an outlier program like Clemson would? If Tech brought in Young Jeezy to perform after every practice, before game, and after....would that elevate Tech"acceptable"?
• "Unattractive academic environment"? Perhaps "unattainable" is the right word for many kids.
• And, for the last time, how many more resources does a coach need??!? This is replayed over and over on this board. Yet no one has defined what is the minimum for success. It's mostly, oh, we only have 15 recruiters while Clemson -- Bless Their Hearts -- has 60, or whatever. Or, coach is making $3M but Saban's making $9M. For the love of God, how many millions of dollars per year does it take to win some damn football games??!! But for all the talk of resources, how many programs are expending ridiculous resources but not seeing success, re: TN and so on? So it's really a bull**** argument

I guess that's enough for now
<drink></drink>

 

[Techster]

BS. Several people had reservations about the hire and did not buy into the hype like so many gullible posters. Now that some of what caused the reservations have become apparent (inexperience for one, and point that out.......the same gullible posters now cry that we hate CPGC and hope for his failure. The same people that whine about complaints "hurting the program" were the loudest ones hurting the program through the last 11 years. The shame is the hypocrisy of some many posting here,

Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

You think he will be able to land top 20 classes by average star rating?

I think he can because of the fertile recruiting area and the relentless recruiting style of his assistants. However, I am not convinced we can get linemen especially defensive linemen who are top notch. Seems like the ones we get are one of two things: if they are big, they are slow and if they are quick they are small. How many Daryl Richards and Vance Walkers are around? Not many.

 

[LibertyTurns]

This is skipping over or false projecting some major key points though:

• Tech is in a P5 conference -- exactly how many of these jobs come up every year? How many coaches are out there? It's attractive on that alone.
• How many coaches did Tech not hire in lieu of Collins because of "fit", whatever? Do you think an Art Biles, or Les Miles would be interested in getting back into the game? Would they be considered a more attractive Coach than Collins? But there was no offer -- in fact, we don't know who might have considered the position, really.
• What are "marginal facilities" anyway? Is there a new ESPN metric for this? What does Tech not provide that, perhaps, an outlier program like Clemson would? If Tech brought in Young Jeezy to perform after every practice, before game, and after....would that elevate Tech"acceptable"?
• "Unattractive academic environment"? Perhaps "unattainable" is the right word for many kids.
• And, for the last time, how many more resources does a coach need??!? This is replayed over and over on this board. Yet no one has defined what is the minimum for success. It's mostly, oh, we only have 15 recruiters while Clemson -- Bless Their Hearts -- has 60, or whatever. Or, coach is making $3M but Saban's making $9M. For the love of God, how many millions of dollars per year does it take to win some damn football games??!! But for all the talk of resources, how many programs are expending ridiculous resources but not seeing success, re: TN and so on? So it's really a bull**** argument

I guess that's enough for now
<drink></drink>

I’ve ranted on here before & we’ve gone from what we had to this.

We can’t buy success at GT, we just don’t have the money. We’ve got to be innovative. We’ve tried offensively scheming our way to success by going all in on half a team and trying to do the best we could on the other side of the ball & we saw what it yielded. Up, down, up, down riding the thin gold line. However, the offensive scheme was not the problem. It’s a superior scheme. Unquestionably we lacked a QB with enough talent running AND throwing for it to thrive. We saw what we did when we had both. We could not find a defense. Why?

Recruiting. Why couldn’t we consistently recruit a good enough QB? Academics? Facilities? Scheme? Fan base?

Recruiting. Why couldn’t we generate a good defense to couple with a good offense? Same questions as above.

What can we do?

1) Big Money- Join the arms race and outspend the competition on facilities. We got a campaign going to get us to where everybody went in 2010. It’s a start but we’re still a decade behind & losing ground to the big boys.
2) Free- Fix the academics so the players only have to fight on the field, not with the Hill or their profs. No movement here at all from what I can see.
3)
A. Fair amount of money- Hire an above average coaching staff. Jury is definitely out on some.
B. Or we can reach on very young up & comers.
4) Free- Scheme again. We just ditched this & went back to what we were doing
5) Unknown amount of money required- More recruiting assets. We added some.
6) May cost some- Innovate- Analytics, R&D, etc. Some recent improvements, need more
7) Free- Fake it ‘til you make it; trying to do that now
8) Some money- Improve gameday environment
9) Free- beer. Actually it’s not but a very inexpensive option compared to options #1-8.

I’m sure there’s others.

I’m solidly for #2, #6, #8. We can’t do #4 because it’s too divisive. We need some of #1 so we’re not stale & woefully outdated. We need some of#5 because it was just idiotic how slim we were. I’ll leave #7 up to you guys because I’m not a hype fan although hype is needed. #9 is necessary regardless of whatever we do with #1-8.

 

[Animal02]

Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

You prove my point

 

[Techster]

You prove my point

I'm glad your mirror is working.

I hope you can pull up that anchor stuck in the past and start going down the river with the rest of us. I know I for one would like to see you as enthused about the program now as you were the last decade. We can not change the circumstances, but we can change our attitude.