Game thread - @ Kentucky, 12/14/2019

[Fatmike91]

We don't do anything to help him get an easy bucket or a couple of easy shots to get in rhythm. Everything is hard and he has to create 90% of his shots. Again, not his game. If we simply ran sets a lot faster and got him a bit of help with down screens and other movement to occupy help defenders, he most likely is a different player.

You've got this exactly right. I can't think of a single thing we did all game to get Devoe going.

/

 

[gte447f]

Our defense is pretty good as expected at this point. Our offense is pretty bad, and I'm not sure Pastner has a clue how to help. Our offensive strategy today, and most days, seemed fairly non-existent. We seem to be trying to use a spacing offense with 4 or sometimes 5 guys on the perimeter with little or slow ball movement and even less player movement. In my opinion that type of spacing offense relies on dribble penetration to move the defense and create open shots or cutting lanes for the other perimeter players. The problem with that is two fold for us; we don't have any dribble penetrators or any good outside shooters other than Devoe (Parhum hasn't shown as expected and we are less than 30% as a team including Devoe at 50%). We should be running a non-stop motion offense focusing on sending cutters to the basket and running shooters off screens off the ball.

 

[gte447f]

You've got this exactly right. I can't think of a single thing we did all game to get Devoe going.

/

Pastner addressed this in a pregame interview with Andy Demetra, sort of. He said that the offensive game plan today was to try to get Parhum and Devoe more open shots by letting Khalid Moore handle most of the point guard duties in hopes of freeing up Parhum and Devoe off the ball. Having heard this before just before tip-off, I was looking for it in the game, and it is exactly what they did as far as Moore handling the point. However, it did nothing to get Devoe open shots. In fact it was probably counterproductive for Devoe. Unfortunately, I think our best and only chance right now is for Devoe to have the ball as much as possible.

 

[dtm1997]

Was there more off-ball motion than any other time the past 4 seasons?

Seemed that way.

 

[gte447f]

Was there more off-ball motion than any other time the past 4 seasons?

Seemed that way.

You think so? I'm not sure. Admittedly, I'm not always seeing the whole floor when I'm watching. But, every time Moses get's stuck with the ball at the top of the key trying to initiate something, I start screaming for a guard to come get the ball and looking to see where everyone else is on the floor, and most of the time they are all standing lead footed in the corners or something.

 

[Fatmike91]

I was just looking for some sets to get Devoe the ball in space, or maybe just some one to screens for him. They had a player face-guard him and it completely disrupted his game. We didn't have a plan to change that. Instead, we put the ball in someone else's hands all game. If that was the game plan, well, even worse because it was clearly what Kentucky wanted too.

/

 

[gte447f]

I was just looking for some sets to get Devoe the ball in space, or maybe just some one to screens for him. They had a player face-guard him and it completely disrupted his game. We didn't have a plan to change that. Instead, we put the ball in someone else's hands all game. If that was the game plan, well, even worse because it was clearly what Kentucky wanted too.

/

I totally agree.

 

[dtm1997]

Watch this, while I go get my popcorn.

 

[dtm1997]

You think so? I'm not sure. Admittedly, I'm not always seeing the whole floor when I'm watching. But, every time Moses get's stuck with the ball at the top of the key trying to initiate something, I start screaming for a guard to come get the ball and looking to see where everyone else is on the floor, and most of the time they are all standing lead footed in the corners or something.

Agree that happened with Moses, but felt like Bubba, Khalid, & Mike were very active moving without the ball.

 

[lv20gt]

You've got this exactly right. I can't think of a single thing we did all game to get Devoe going.

He had about 3 or 4 wide open looks from 3 and missed them all. Yes, we struggled to do much for him, because we're missing our best creator in Jose and Devoe is our second best creator for others, but he had opportunities to start getting going and he missed the shots.

And the reality is that Devoe has the talent to be first team All ACC. He doesn't have the mentality. It looked like he was afraid to trying to go right at the freshman Kentucky had on him, and that's a problem. He looked like he thought he was some role player, and the announcers, and posters in this thread seem to agree. We don't need him to be a role player. We need him to be a damn star and not back down just because teams start to focus on him. People say it's not his game, but too bad. The team needs for him to try and do that. If he can't get it done because it's not his game, then fine. We lost with our best player trying to take over and failing. But that's not what happened. We lost because Hagans decided he wanted to be a star and Devoe decided he wanted to be a role player. And that should never happen.

 

[gte447f]

Watch this, while I go get my popcorn.

Wow! That last question was a doozie. Thank goodness Pastner didn't take the bait. Said he just wants to beat Ball State on Wednesday. Not the best answer, but could have been a lot worse.

 

[reckrider]

Watch this, while I go get my popcorn.

I know I will get crucified for this but, I hope we give CJP 10 years to coach our team. Today’s climate wants immediate gratification but I think he can be as good for us as the SHW, relatively speaking in a 15 team, best in the country conference. We desperately need Jose and Jordan this year. Next years recruits will make us better. I’d like to see an upgrade in the assistant coaches but I think Josh is a guy that will just get better and better.

 

[lv20gt]

I know I will get crucified for this but, I hope we give CJP 10 years to coach our team. Today’s climate wants immediate gratification but I think he can be as good for us as the SHW, relatively speaking in a 15 team, best in the country conference. We desperately need Jose and Jordan this year. Next years recruits will make us better. I’d like to see an upgrade in the assistant coaches but I think Josh is a guy that will just get better and better.

IMO the jury is still out with regards to Pastner. It's pretty clear that our roster situation (including Jose and Usher) is much better now than it was when he took over. In that regards he's done a good job, albeit in a somewhat unusual way. That extends to next year where, barring unforeseen losses, the talent we have coming in is overall better than the talent we have going out imo. From a coaching standpoint he has generally been pretty good on the defensive end. Obviously there are outlier games, but that end is good.

There are two things that I think will decide Pastner's fate going forward. The first is how we look on the offensive end once Jose and Usher are added to the mix. That's been the If we look competent then that's a good omen for the future. If we still struggle offensively, then that really justifies the view that it'll always be a problem under Pastner. Once we are at full strength we'll have a third year starting PG in Jose, a proven high volume three point shooter in Parham, a high level talent in Devoe, a player who is emerging as a reliable scorer in Moses, and a proven contributor on that end in Banks. There's no reason for our offense to be a huge weakness this year.

The second is the 2021 class. If the offense does in fact look significantly better with the return of Jose then it just stresses how important it is for Pastner to have a high quality PG and the recruiting needs to reflect that. The 2021 class will be a big class and one that will have to make somewhat of an impact immediately. It's probably unavoidable that we'll take a step back on the court after the current juniors graduate, but the 2021 class will be an indication of whether that step back is just a temporary one in an overall upward trend or if it's a more long term issue.

Either way I agree with the upgrading of assistant coaches. I like coach Rev, and Swartz is okay, but I wasn't thrilled with the Wilkins hire and still think we can improve in that regard.

 

[Bogey]

He had about 3 or 4 wide open looks from 3 and missed them all. Yes, we struggled to do much for him, because we're missing our best creator in Jose and Devoe is our second best creator for others, but he had opportunities to start getting going and he missed the shots.

And the reality is that Devoe has the talent to be first team All ACC. He doesn't have the mentality. It looked like he was afraid to trying to go right at the freshman Kentucky had on him, and that's a problem. He looked like he thought he was some role player, and the announcers, and posters in this thread seem to agree. We don't need him to be a role player. We need him to be a damn star and not back down just because teams start to focus on him. People say it's not his game, but too bad. The team needs for him to try and do that. If he can't get it done because it's not his game, then fine. We lost with our best player trying to take over and failing. But that's not what happened. We lost because Hagans decided he wanted to be a star and Devoe decided he wanted to be a role player. And that should never happen.

I am OOTC now and didn't get to watch the game but I have always thought similar about Mike. He doesn't seem to have that extra gear to kick in when he needs it. We need Jose' for our offense to be efficient against good teams.

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[sidewalkGTfan]

I know I will get crucified for this but, I hope we give CJP 10 years to coach our team. Today’s climate wants immediate gratification but I think he can be as good for us as the SHW, relatively speaking in a 15 team, best in the country conference. We desperately need Jose and Jordan this year. Next years recruits will make us better. I’d like to see an upgrade in the assistant coaches but I think Josh is a guy that will just get better and better.

We are in year 4 of his tenure. I’m pulling for the guy cause I’m tired of being crappy in basketball and firing coaches but the time to start winning is now. At some point, he’s got to make the Big Dance. The Ron Bell and DLab stuff has only made things worse for him as well.

 

[GT11]

I know I will get crucified for this but, I hope we give CJP 10 years to coach our team. Today’s climate wants immediate gratification but I think he can be as good for us as the SHW, relatively speaking in a 15 team, best in the country conference. We desperately need Jose and Jordan this year. Next years recruits will make us better. I’d like to see an upgrade in the assistant coaches but I think Josh is a guy that will just get better and better.

Totally agree. Things are looking up

 

[Bogey]

I know I will get crucified for this but, I hope we give CJP 10 years to coach our team. Today’s climate wants immediate gratification but I think he can be as good for us as the SHW, relatively speaking in a 15 team, best in the country conference. We desperately need Jose and Jordan this year. Next years recruits will make us better. I’d like to see an upgrade in the assistant coaches but I think Josh is a guy that will just get better and better.

I agree 100%

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[YlJacket]

If we have CJP a 10 year contract the reaction would be "interesting" to say the least

 

[gte447f]

IMO the jury is still out with regards to Pastner. It's pretty clear that our roster situation (including Jose and Usher) is much better now than it was when he took over. In that regards he's done a good job, albeit in a somewhat unusual way. That extends to next year where, barring unforeseen losses, the talent we have coming in is overall better than the talent we have going out imo. From a coaching standpoint he has generally been pretty good on the defensive end. Obviously there are outlier games, but that end is good.

There are two things that I think will decide Pastner's fate going forward. The first is how we look on the offensive end once Jose and Usher are added to the mix. That's been the If we look competent then that's a good omen for the future. If we still struggle offensively, then that really justifies the view that it'll always be a problem under Pastner. Once we are at full strength we'll have a third year starting PG in Jose, a proven high volume three point shooter in Parham, a high level talent in Devoe, a player who is emerging as a reliable scorer in Moses, and a proven contributor on that end in Banks. There's no reason for our offense to be a huge weakness this year.

The second is the 2021 class. If the offense does in fact look significantly better with the return of Jose then it just stresses how important it is for Pastner to have a high quality PG and the recruiting needs to reflect that. The 2021 class will be a big class and one that will have to make somewhat of an impact immediately. It's probably unavoidable that we'll take a step back on the court after the current juniors graduate, but the 2021 class will be an indication of whether that step back is just a temporary one in an overall upward trend or if it's a more long term issue.

Either way I agree with the upgrading of assistant coaches. I like coach Rev, and Swartz is okay, but I wasn't thrilled with the Wilkins hire and still think we can improve in that regard.

This is a good take. I am not quite as optimistic as you, but I agree that Pastner is definitely a good defensive coach and that our overall roster and talent level is improved compared to Gregory. I agree that the jury is still out regarding Pastner's ability to get something going on offense, but this is where my patience is running a little thinner. When you don't have the pieces, I think you have to try to get the upper hand with scheme, and that's where I think we are lacking right now. Scheme wise, I think we have regressed a lot since Pastner's first year when we had a unique identity with Lammers at the high post and aggressive cutters constantly going to the basket.

I'm not sure what I think about the assistant coaches. Rev is very popular and probably deserves a lot of credit for major improvements from Lammers, AD, Banks, and Moses. I don't know anything about Schwartz, but I think Wilkins works with the guards; should Wilkins get some credit for Devoe's massive improvement?

 

[reckrider]

If we have CJP a 10 year contract the reaction would be "interesting" to say the least

I never said anything about a 10 year contract. I’m just saying we should be a little more patient than looking for a quick fix after year 5.