CPJ Comments on Contract Extension

[SidewalkJacket]

A. That's what we should strive for even if it's not gonna happen. Just me personally that's how I feel

Holy cow, man... can we all agree that of course we strive for "A"???

But if that's what it will take for you to not want the coach fired, you need to go root for Bama.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Wtf are you talking about. I literally said none of this

Actually, when you look at everything you have posted on the issue, that's exactly what you have said.

 

[B Lifsey]

A. That's what we should strive for even if it's not gonna happen. Just me personally that's how I feel

Believe it or not...that is what every fan wants. No one wants to accept mediocrity. The fans being identified as CPJ apologist believe changing a HC every 4, 5, or 10 years isn't the right approach. There are other issues identified as problems but the CPJ haters push them off as excuses anytime they are brought up.

 

[lv20gt]

That's what I'm looking for, too.

The options for "consistent winning team" are
a) consistently dominant like the perennial CFP contenders
b) consistently average (CCG-like 7 win seasons)
c) up and down seasons with extreme highs and occasional lows that average out (CPJ-era)

Or d. The option where we have the consistency to make a bowl every year AND have occasional spikes up. Nobody has explained why Johnson winning 11 one year caused him to only win 3 the next. Because there isn't. We should have a base level that we expect every year. At minimum that should be making a bowl because we've proven in the past to be able for that to be the floor. The fact that we've missed bowl games twice in the last 3 years and some are perfectly content with Johnson getting no heat on his *** is absurd to me.

 

[Eastman]

Seems we constantly have what I would call subsets of data arguments on this board. We compare previous coaches records over various periods of time, sliced and diced and then those are critiqued based on what argument one is trying to support. I guess this is natural for Tech grads which I am not.
As an outsider I see Tech as a tough place for recruiting. There are numerous reasons why Tech has a smaller pool of players to recruit from and is a tougher sell than the Miamis, UNCs and Clemson’s in and out of our conference. Yes some high school kids understand the value of a degree from Tech (although some can’t achieve the needed grades while having a full time football job etc) but that is far from the majority of them otherwise recruiting would never be a problem. Despite these difficulties we compete very well with the aforementioned schools and typically exceed external expectations. The coach is a 3 time ACC coach of the year which I don’t think was voted on by only Tech alums. That being said I simply don’t understand the strong criticism of our performance under CPJ. I don’t think Saban would be nearly as successful were he at Tech. I do understand that many don’t like the offense and would want to change coaches for that reason alone. I happen to love it.

 

[lv20gt]

That being said I simply don’t understand the strong criticism of our performance under CPJ.

Johnson's record the last 6 years is 42-35. Gaileys record his 6 years here was 44-32. It's not hard to understand and it's not just about personal preference on the offense.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Johnson's record the last 6 years is 42-35. Gaileys record his 6 years here was 44-32. It's not hard to understand and it's not just about personal preference on the offense.

If you see the CCG years the same as you do the CPJ years, nothing anyone can say will ever convince you otherwise. It’s like you believe the earth is flat.

 

[lv20gt]

If you see the CCG years the same as you do the CPJ years, nothing anyone can say will ever convince you otherwise. It’s like you believe the earth is flat.

More like you're in a cult and refuse to see anything wrong with the cult leader.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

More like you're in a cult and refuse to see anything wrong with the cult leader.

Considering we’ve all acknowledged he has faults I don’t think this is accurate

 

[Milwaukee]

Considering we’ve all acknowledged he has faults I don’t think this is accurate

Just don't respond to the morons who are fabricating things. Anti-PJ is one thing, but delusional and won't look at the facts is another. Don't respond to these 2 morons.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

More like you're in a cult and refuse to see anything wrong with the cult leader.

6 years of flat line mediocre vs 6 years of highs and lows, take your pick. I, and many others, would gladly trade a few championship seasons for a few stinkers rather than languish in the middle.

 

[lv20gt]

6 years of flat line mediocre vs 6 years of highs and lows, take your pick. I, and many others, would gladly trade a few championship seasons for a few stinkers rather than languish in the middle.

Why do you believe those are the only two choices? Why not a flat line of 7 wins a year and an occasional bump up? Why do you believe that in order for us to win 11 games one season we have to take away wins from another year?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Why do you believe those are the only two choices? Why not a flat line of 7 wins a year and an occasional bump up? Why do you believe that in order for us to win 11 games one season we have to take away wins from another year?

I'm speaking purely of the Gailey vs Johnson debate. I'm not saying it's best we can hope for. I actually believe a 6/7 win floor is doable with this coach.

 

[lv20gt]

I'm speaking purely of the Gailey vs Johnson debate. I'm not saying it's best we can hope for. I actually believe a 6/7 win floor is doable with this coach.

I'm not trying to argue in favor of Gailey. Gailey deserved to be canned. the point was that Johnson has performed recently to a similar level as a guy we canned. It shouldn't be hard to understand why people want Johnson gone, just like it wasn't hard to understand why people wanted Gailey gone.

 

[stech81]

It’s like you believe the earth is flat.

It's not ? Yes I know there are a few hills but it looks flat. And some people think we did land on the moon. Now Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny we all know they are real. I still have my doubts about the tooth fairy, but I listen to what y all think, I am pretty open-minded .

 

[iceeater1969]

I'm not trying to argue in favor of Gailey. Gailey deserved to be canned. the point was that Johnson has performed recently to a similar level as a guy we canned. It shouldn't be hard to understand why people want Johnson gone, just like it wasn't hard to understand why people wanted Gailey gone.

Though similar items can be demonstrated , i like that Coach clearly hates to lose. After losses Chan was so "o well we lost".
Coach is honest about the facts about the game, with a deep anger about the loose in general. He is a realist, but he hates it when we let opportunities slip away. I like that.

Chan G never again.

 

[Eastman]

Johnson's record the last 6 years is 42-35. Gaileys record his 6 years here was 44-32. It's not hard to understand and it's not just about personal preference on the offense.

So after I present my argument that making an valid comparison of two different coaches from different time periods by comparing their won loss records is invalid because multiple important variables are different , your response is to provide a won/loss record of two coaches as a rebuttal?

My positve argument for CPJ could be summarized as: Tech has many “headwinds” compared to those they compete against. It is therefore more difficult for the coach to field a winning team. Despite these difficulties This coach has won 3 ACC coach of the year titles, fielded some outstanding teams, typically exceeded the expectations of non partisan pundits etc while achieving graduation rates from a tough school that are truly impressive. (More positives about CPJ’s tenure could be mentioned) Therefore given the unique circumstances of coaching at Tech the current coach has been doing an excellent job. Hopefully you now understand my position better.

 

[lv20gt]

So after I present my argument that making an valid comparison of two different coaches from different time periods by comparing their won loss records is invalid because multiple important variables are different , your response is to provide a won/loss record of two coaches as a rebuttal?

Your argument for why YOU don't personally hold his record against him doesn't explain why you can't understand why others would. He's a head football coach. He's paid to win football games. He hasn't won enough for some people. Ergo they are unhappy with him. It's not an overly convoluted argument and most of your argument doesn't really affect that.

The argument for graduating players is as shallow now as it was when it was used by those wanting to keep gregory. The academic support staff is doing a wonderful job. Not sure why people love to make that an achievement of an athletic coach.

As far as coach of the year goes. Two of those came in 08 and 09. You know who won it the year before Johnson? Groh. He won it twice, and we've fired him since then because it was irrelevant at the time. Same as Johnson. What Johnson did in 08 and 09 is irrelevant today. The entire coaching landscape of the ACC has changed and he has not shown to be able to replicate the level of talent that team had. As far as 2014 goes, it was a great year. It was also followed by the worst year in 20 years. @016 was a good year in the way that 2006 was. Still underwhelming and last year was the second worst year in 20 years.

But yes, I know your position. I've seen that mentality the last several years from too large a portion of the fanbase. When something goes wrong it's never on the head coach. It's the DC that's the problem (again). And if we struggle next year it'll be blamed on the defense getting used to the new system. And when that excuse runs it's course it'll be that time to replace the DC because this time Johnson has the money to make a good hire. (don't actually look at what we're paying our current DC vs past ones. That's the reason this one will be different.). And if the offense struggles it's somehow the defense that is causing the offense to play bad because of pressure. And if not the defense it'll be players missing assignments, or the refs, or coaches complaining to the refs, or the field conditions, or the rule changes, or what brand sponsors us, or whatever the next flavor of the month excuse is.

And it all culminates into one statement that is tautological in some minds. "Johnson's doing an excellent job". No matter what that job actually is.

 

[Eastman]

Your argument for why YOU don't personally hold his record against him doesn't explain why you can't understand why others would. He's a head football coach. He's paid to win football games. He hasn't won enough for some people. Ergo they are unhappy with him. It's not an overly convoluted argument and most of your argument doesn't really affect that.

The argument for graduating players is as shallow now as it was when it was used by those wanting to keep gregory. The academic support staff is doing a wonderful job. Not sure why people love to make that an achievement of an athletic coach.

As far as coach of the year goes. Two of those came in 08 and 09. You know who won it the year before Johnson? Groh. He won it twice, and we've fired him since then because it was irrelevant at the time. Same as Johnson. What Johnson did in 08 and 09 is irrelevant today. The entire coaching landscape of the ACC has changed and he has not shown to be able to replicate the level of talent that team had. As far as 2014 goes, it was a great year. It was also followed by the worst year in 20 years. @016 was a good year in the way that 2006 was. Still underwhelming and last year was the second worst year in 20 years.

But yes, I know your position. I've seen that mentality the last several years from too large a portion of the fanbase. When something goes wrong it's never on the head coach. It's the DC that's the problem (again). And if we struggle next year it'll be blamed on the defen
se getting used to the new system. And when that excuse runs it's course it'll be that time to replace the DC because this time Johnson has the money to make a good hire. (don't actually look at what we're paying our current DC vs past ones. That's the reason this one will be different.). And if the offense struggles it's somehow the defense that is causing the offense to play bad because of pressure. And if not the defense it'll be players missing assignments, or the refs, or coaches complaining to the refs, or the field conditions, or the rule changes, or what brand sponsors us, or whatever the next flavor of the month excuse is.

And it all culminates into one statement that is tautological in some minds. "Johnson's doing an excellent job". No matter what that job actually is.

But I did explain why I couldn’t understand (a euphemism for my not seeing) the argument from comparisons with previous coaches. N that “multiple important variables are different” now compared to then.

To your point on academic performance if CPJ or his staff have nothing to do with the academic achievement, then your point there is valid.

If what Johnson achieved in 08 and 09 is irrelevant as you say because “the entire coaching landscape of the ACC has changed” then why do you bring up Coaches from time periods even farther back in time to use in your argument?

I am not willing to discard the Coach of the Year and numerous other points which you do so easily and believe it is clear that CPJ puts out very competitive teams despite the many challenges unique to Tech and therefore is doing a solid job.

I my biggest criticism has been with the defense but do not know if that has been totally his fault . To the extent it is I would be critical in that area.

 

[lv20gt]

To your point on academic performance if CPJ or his staff have nothing to do with the academic achievement, then your point there is valid.

They have little to do with it and not enough for it to be a major point. Its not like Johnson is sitting down and helping the players with calculus. The extent at which head coaches affect academics is overblown and almost always used in support of coaches who aren't living up to expectations in other ways.

If what Johnson achieved in 08 and 09 is irrelevant as you say because “the entire coaching landscape of the ACC has changed” then why do you bring up Coaches from time periods even farther back in time to use in your argument?

The difference Johnson winning coach of the year is a relative award. He won it over coaches who are largely no longer in the conference. That tells us nothing about how good a coach Johnson is against the current coaches in conference. The idea that just because he won a coach of the year means he's a great coach is an absolute claim. The comparison to Gailey isn't to make a claim about which is better (Johnson is better), but instead showing a comparison about how each is performing relative to their current surroundings. And Gailey was performing bad enough compared to those around him that we fired him. Johnson's recent record shows a similar level of performance. Think about it like this, if we lose every game for the next 3 years Johnson how silly will it look to be bringing up coach of the year awards from then? It's the same idea. ACC has improved it's coaching. We haven't. Johnson once was a good enough coach. He isn't anymore. The performance is displaying that.

I my biggest criticism has been with the defense but do not know if that has been totally his fault . To the extent it is I would be critical in that area.

Of course. Why would you blame the head coach when his defense has been terrible for 10 years through 3 different DCs. I take it you look at him firing another DC as a sign that he's trying his best to fix the issue. I'm sure it'll work as well as it did the last two times. How many DCs does it take before people look at the constant through the entire time? Then what about the mediocre recruiting? The bad special teams? The inconsistent blocking? The anemic passing game?

But hey, when missing bowls twice in 3 years is an excellent job then of course I'm sure you have great reasons why each of those things isn't actually Johnson's fault.