CPJ Comments on Contract Extension

GTFLETCH

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If that's true, then there are no ACC head coaches who were hired for the 2008 season who is still in the same position.
David Cutcliffe - 2008- present (Record at Duke 59-67)
CPJ - 2008 - Present (Record at Duke 76-54)
Dabo 2009 - Present (Record at Duke 101-30)
{was named the interim head football coach on October 13, 2008... named Head Coach on 1 Dec 2008}
 

GTFLETCH

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What is more impressive to everyone... The way Dabo has Turned Clemson into a national Powerhouse, Cutcliffe turning Duke into respectable or CPJ keeping GT on the 7.5 win avg set by George O'leary and Chan Gailey??

I find what Dabo has done as amazing, Tommy Bowden & Tommy West with the same support could not do what Dabo has done, some FSU folks say Clemson new found national fame is what broke the Jimbo and FSU relationship...
 

jacketup

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What is more impressive to everyone... The way Dabo has Turned Clemson into a national Powerhouse, Cutcliffe turning Duke into respectable or CPJ keeping GT on the 7.5 win avg set by George O'leary and Chan Gailey??

I find what Dabo has done as amazing, Tommy Bowden & Tommy West with the same support could not do what Dabo has done, some FSU folks say Clemson new found national fame is what broke the Jimbo and FSU relationship...

If you think Dabo brought that program that far that fast without cheating, I know of some fine marshland I'd like to sell you. I Pay Two Athletes Yearly is a tradition in Tiger Town

If you look at what George O'Leary did his last four years at GT after cleaning up his predecessor's mess, I don't see how you can possibly compare him to Gailey or Johnson.
 

GTFLETCH

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If you think Dabo brought that program that far that fast without cheating, I know of some fine marshland I'd like to sell you. I Pay Two Athletes Yearly is a tradition in Tiger Town

If you look at what George O'Leary did his last four years at GT after cleaning up his predecessor's mess, I don't see how you can possibly compare him to Gailey or Johnson.
Actually when CPJ retires or moves on to Tennessee I hope we go after another George O'leary... 5 top 25 finishes in 7 years, Co ACC championship in 1998...3-4 vs UGA...7-0 vs Duke.... Only 3 top 25 finishes and 3-13 record vs UGA since GO was on the Flats .... Crazy
 

augustabuzz

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David Cutcliffe - 2008- present (Record at Duke 59-67)
CPJ - 2008 - Present (Record at Duke 76-54)
Dabo 2009 - Present (Record at Duke 101-30)
{was named the interim head football coach on October 13, 2008... named Head Coach on 1 Dec 2008}
Well then, why did you mention only Dabo when the question was broached earlier? And, he was not the Head Coach in 2008.
 

lv20gt

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We've had three distinct QB eras under CPJ: The JfN era, the TW era, and the JeT era. (If TM starts the entire season, then we can call it the TM era, and we cant judge it then). Of those three QB eras, which one would you say suffered from a lack of QB development?

I wouldn't say there was a lack of development, but rather there wasn't really the development you would expect considering the circumstances. We basically have a head coach who created the offense, who is his own OC, and have a program completely defined by the offense we'd run. In those circumstances I would expect a 3 year starter to be in contention for 1st team All ACC and have at least one that you would say was a master at running the offense and that you would really go back and tell recruits "this is how you should run the offense". IMO none of those 3 developed into that.

I love Nesbitt and Thomas but IMO neither senior's season lived up to expectation imo. For Nesbitt that was partially because of injury, but even before hand. It's not that they were bad, quite the opposite, but compare them to say Hamilton as a senior. IMO neither of them sniffed that level of play, and to me I would have expected at least one of the three year starters to be at that level. Especially Thomas after the soph year that he had.

As far as tevin goes, well his senior year for me is remembered for the OT int agianst VT, the OT play change against miami, the drubbing against BYU, the loss and lack luster play against MTSU, and getting benched against UGA. I know I'll get the 4 fonts who will defend him to no end and put the play on everyone else, but I can't look at his senior year and see good play.
 

SidewalkJacket

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It's not that they were bad, quite the opposite, but compare them to say Hamilton as a senior. IMO neither of them sniffed that level of play.

I hate to pick nits, because you make some decent sense in parts of your post, but if your standard for successful QB development is going to be the greatest GT player of all time and a Heisman runner-up, you’re going to be pretty hard to please...
 

SidewalkJacket

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I wouldn't say there was a lack of development, but rather there wasn't really the development you would expect considering the circumstances. We basically have a head coach who created the offense, who is his own OC, and have a program completely defined by the offense we'd run. In those circumstances I would expect a 3 year starter to be in contention for 1st team All ACC and have at least one that you would say was a master at running the offense and that you would really go back and tell recruits "this is how you should run the offense". IMO none of those 3 developed into that.

Not a bad point. At GSU he broke the mold right off the bat with Tracy Ham. Everyone after was compared to him. However, you could argue that the examples of JfN and JeT could serve as good arguments for how different style QBs can be ultra-successful in the offense.
 

lv20gt

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I hate to pick nits, because you make some decent sense in parts of your post, but if your standard for successful QB development is going to be the greatest GT player of all time and a Heisman runner-up, you’re going to be pretty hard to please...

Take Thomas as example. Look at his sophomore year. His performance and the team's performance. What do you consider good QB development from that start? Consider that our program is currently set up entirely around the niche offense that we run. I don't think it's unreasonable to feel disappointed with how Thomas progressed over his 3 years starting considering how good he was as a soph. That's not to say that he was bad, because he was very good as a soph. But he started as very good, and ended as a slightly better very good. And I do think context is important. Our entire program is built around our offense, so yes I do think the bar for development of the central player to the focus of the team should be pretty high. I'd feel different if our program's entire identity wasn't the offense and our HC wasn't so personally invested on one side of the ball to the, imo, detriment of both special team's and defense. In that scenario I think you have to expect great development. Not just okay development.

And it's not just when you look at it in a vacuum either. I'd feel differently if I felt, for instance, that the offense was really built around the OL and we consistently put out a great OL. But we haven't.
 
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I would not give him an extension. His current deal is through 2020. That is for the next 3 football seasons. The last 3 season have been less than steller. Let's see how his next DC pans out as the first four have not lasted and let's see how he develops Lucas Johnson or Tobias Oliver.

He has the best depth at QB since he has been here, however he stuck with a converted ABACK last year who completed only 37% of his passes. If Taqoun starts at QB this may be a sign of bigger issues. Coach Johnson does not develop Quarterbacks very well and thus another 6 or 7 win season may be our ceiling.

Let's see what 2018 brings before we extend him. If he doesn't like he he can go Coach at Tennessee.

UT doesn't want him.
 
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So we can agree that despite players CPJ offense will put up gaudy numbers.... However one can conclude that winning ACC titles and Orange Bowls takes more than great offensive numbers! I am assuming in 2009 and 2014 there was something more...

Heck Last year I think we were 5-6 and the 5th top rushing team in the nation....

2009 and 2014, we threw the ball extremely well and had great WRs. It's why I'm bearish on 2018. We've got no experienced, D-stretching WRs nor do we have a QB with a good arm.

Another year of "It's been figured out" QB Keeper plays = another losing season.
 

dressedcheeseside

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The question is why is Clemson on DC #3.... Is it because the DC is getting fired or because a College team wants them to improve their program..... Name one DC that left GT under CPJ for a HC job or was not blamed by CPJ for having poor defense....
Dude, you comparing us with Clemson's coaching hires and their unlimited resources is laughable.
 

SidewalkJacket

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2009 and 2014, we threw the ball extremely well and had great WRs. It's why I'm bearish on 2018. We've got no experienced, D-stretching WRs nor do we have a QB with a good arm.

Another year of "It's been figured out" QB Keeper plays = another losing season.

That is certainly the biq Q on offense this season. Hopefully what we lack in experience at WR we can make up for with athletic ability. After BS (who I love but is no freak of nature athletically), we have some flat out specimens out there. If one of them is able to have a RJ-like season, we should be alright. If one of them has a DS-type season, look out...
 

dressedcheeseside

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I wouldn't say there was a lack of development, but rather there wasn't really the development you would expect considering the circumstances. We basically have a head coach who created the offense, who is his own OC, and have a program completely defined by the offense we'd run. In those circumstances I would expect a 3 year starter to be in contention for 1st team All ACC and have at least one that you would say was a master at running the offense and that you would really go back and tell recruits "this is how you should run the offense". IMO none of those 3 developed into that.

I love Nesbitt and Thomas but IMO neither senior's season lived up to expectation imo. For Nesbitt that was partially because of injury, but even before hand. It's not that they were bad, quite the opposite, but compare them to say Hamilton as a senior. IMO neither of them sniffed that level of play, and to me I would have expected at least one of the three year starters to be at that level. Especially Thomas after the soph year that he had.

As far as tevin goes, well his senior year for me is remembered for the OT int agianst VT, the OT play change against miami, the drubbing against BYU, the loss and lack luster play against MTSU, and getting benched against UGA. I know I'll get the 4 fonts who will defend him to no end and put the play on everyone else, but I can't look at his senior year and see good play.
A lot of holes in these arguments.

1. It is super hard to recruit the qb position to our offense. Top ranked qb's want to throw the ball a bunch. Nesbitt wasn't recruited to this offense. JeT was an outlier that put position over NFL marketability. Very rare. TW was not recruited very highly and was well suited to our offense, but he developed over time into one of the most dependable qb's we've had in the Johnson era.

2. Nice job cherry picking TW's record on the flats. I could just as easily throw up a bunch of stats that make him look like a Heisman candidate but I don't have the inclination to spend the time necessary just a make a point.
 

SidewalkJacket

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1. It is super hard to recruit the qb position to our offense. Top ranked qb's want to throw the ball a bunch. Nesbitt wasn't recruited to this offense. JeT was an outlier that put position over NFL marketability. Very rare. TW was not recruited very highly and was well suited to our offense, but he developed over time into one of the most dependable qb's we've had in the Johnson era.

True, but he's right about our offense having a unique identity and it being CPJ's responsibility to have a stud lined up there to run "his" offense.

2. Nice job cherry picking TW's record on the flats. I could just as easily throw up a bunch of stats that make him look like a Heisman candidate but I don't have the inclination to spend the time necessary just a make a point.

Absolutely. There's been a lot of cherry-picking stats in this thread, and from a couple of posters, cherry-picking stats and records is so common, it's brings a certain trollish smell to my nostrils...
 

lv20gt

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A lot of holes in these arguments.

1. It is super hard to recruit the qb position to our offense. Top ranked qb's want to throw the ball a bunch. Nesbitt wasn't recruited to this offense. JeT was an outlier that put position over NFL marketability. Very rare. TW was not recruited very highly and was well suited to our offense, but he developed over time into one of the most dependable qb's we've had in the Johnson era.

2. Nice job cherry picking TW's record on the flats. I could just as easily throw up a bunch of stats that make him look like a Heisman candidate but I don't have the inclination to spend the time necessary just a make a point.


1. What? One of the big arguments in favor of running this offense was it was easier to recruit QBs because we could easier get an elite option QB, since every tom, ****, and harry ran a similar offense in highschool apparently, and that we didn't need the prototypical NFL QB that everyone wants and was competing for. It doesn't really matter if Nesbitt was recruited ofr the offense or not. He was highly rated coming out of highschool and a good fit for our offense anyways. So what if Thomas was an outlier. That doesn't change the fact that he was here and anything I said about him.

2. Oh, I'm sorry. He was really good against 2-9 Presbyterian, 4-8 UVA, 2-10 BC, and 4-8 Maryland. I mean he did put up the 6th most points 6-6 Duke allowed all year. Or how about that stellar play for 15 points against FSU? OR what about the offensive explosion for 14 points against USC in the bowl game including a masterful 2 yard drive after a punt return. Of course I'm missing the Clemson game. That was his best game probably. But it's saying something that his best game featured two failed 4th down conversion, where again his number was called, one of which set Clemson up for an easy score, and the other wasted a a red zone opportunity given by a short field late in the game taht could have given us a good lead. Of course I'm also cherry picking the VT game, because obviously Tevin was amazing outside of that last mistake. Wonderful 17 point performance, where one of the TDs was a 24 yard drive.

There's something wrong if you look at Tevin's senior year performance and think "that's what we want and need a 3 year starter to perform like".
 

dressedcheeseside

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1. What? One of the big arguments in favor of running this offense was it was easier to recruit QBs because we could easier get an elite option QB, since every tom, ****, and harry ran a similar offense in highschool apparently, and that we didn't need the prototypical NFL QB that everyone wants and was competing for. It doesn't really matter if Nesbitt was recruited ofr the offense or not. He was highly rated coming out of highschool and a good fit for our offense anyways. So what if Thomas was an outlier. That doesn't change the fact that he was here and anything I said about him.

2. Oh, I'm sorry. He was really good against 2-9 Presbyterian, 4-8 UVA, 2-10 BC, and 4-8 Maryland. I mean he did put up the 6th most points 6-6 Duke allowed all year. Or how about that stellar play for 15 points against FSU? OR what about the offensive explosion for 14 points against USC in the bowl game including a masterful 2 yard drive after a punt return. Of course I'm missing the Clemson game. That was his best game probably. But it's saying something that his best game featured two failed 4th down conversion, where again his number was called, one of which set Clemson up for an easy score, and the other wasted a a red zone opportunity given by a short field late in the game taht could have given us a good lead. Of course I'm also cherry picking the VT game, because obviously Tevin was amazing outside of that last mistake. Wonderful 17 point performance, where one of the TDs was a 24 yard drive.

There's something wrong if you look at Tevin's senior year performance and think "that's what we want and need a 3 year starter to perform like".
Your first point is pure mythology. All the best dual threat quarterbacks go to spread option factories.

Our 2011 offense was one of the best we’ve had in the Coach Johnson era. It was mainly due to Tevin Washington’s mastery of the quarterback position. We had no stud bback, we had no stud receiver. The offensive line was average at best.
 
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