Coronavirus Thread

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Supersizethatorder-mutt

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bobongo said:
Super, drugs taken for one thing are not necessarily appropriate for another.
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Well, duhh. I know that. But HCL, developed initially for malaria, proved to be appropriate for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, without any universal indication of conflict with heart problems. So without continuing studies, how can one possibly know that it is not appropriate for Covid, when it has apparently proven to be so in some cases. And there are other drugs taken for one thing that turn out to be appropriate for others too, so it would not be the first time. You just seem to have slammed the door shut completely on even the possibility that HCL might prove effective in the treatment of Covid, CHOOSING to deny that it could possibly ever be effective, just like most of the left has done. And they (you too, I guess) call that scientific? WOW !!!
 
bobongo

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Supersizethatorder-mutt said:
Well, duhh. I know that. But HCL, developed initially for malaria, proved to be appropriate for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, without any universal indication of conflict with heart problems. So without continuing studies, how can one possibly know that it is not appropriate for Covid, when it has apparently proven to be so in some cases. And there are other drugs taken for one thing that turn out to be appropriate for others too, so it would not be the first time. You just seem to have slammed the door shut completely on even the possibility that HCL might prove effective in the treatment of Covid, CHOOSING to deny that it could possibly ever be effective, just like most of the left has done. And they (you too, I guess) call that scientific? WOW !!!
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What difference does it make what I think? Studies have been done by actual medical scientists on coronavirus patients. There may be more but for now it doesn't look promising. Why are you so worked up about it? Sounds more like politics than science. It didn't bother me that Trump thought it would work. I was hoping it would work but it just didn't. Remdesivir seems to help.

Here is something that shows promise, BCG:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/coronavirus-death-rates-lower-in-countries-using-tb-vaccine/

Here is another, nicotine:

https://www.wfla.com/community/heal...hes-could-help-prevent-coronavirus-infection/
 

Boaty1

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Team, I'm seeing numerous states come out and say that between 40-50% of their deaths are taking place in nursing homes. Has anybody else been seeing this? If that is the case, it certainly brings into question even further the massive lock downs we have implemented.
 
Supersizethatorder-mutt

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bobongo said:
What difference does it make what I think? Studies have been done by actual medical scientists on coronavirus patients. There may be more but for now it doesn't look promising. Why are you so worked up about it? Sounds more like politics than science. It didn't bother me that Trump thought it would work. I was hoping it would work but it just didn't. Remdesivir seems to help.

Here is something that shows promise, BCG:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/coronavirus-death-rates-lower-in-countries-using-tb-vaccine/

Here is another, nicotine:

https://www.wfla.com/community/heal...hes-could-help-prevent-coronavirus-infection/
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But it HAS worked in some instances, and there is no disproving that. So why belittle and besmirch that (not saying you do, but many do)? And I have not heard of a single instance where it was administered and heart problems were encountered. ALL potential treatments should be considered and studied.
 
bobongo

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Boaty1 said:
Team, I'm seeing numerous states come out and say that between 40-50% of their deaths are taking place in nursing homes. Has anybody else been seeing this? If that is the case, it certainly brings into question even further the massive lock downs we have implemented.
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Nursing homes, prisons, and meat-packing plants have all been major breeding grounds for the virus.
 
GTRX7

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Boaty1 said:
Team, I'm seeing numerous states come out and say that between 40-50% of their deaths are taking place in nursing homes. Has anybody else been seeing this? If that is the case, it certainly brings into question even further the massive lock downs we have implemented.
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Do you think Sweden's nursing homes just magically attract the virus more than other countries' nursing homes? Or might it have been that, by not locking down, more people contracted the virus in Sweden, including those that visited the nursing homes? After all, that is what we have all been saying all along -- those less vulnerable to the virus are still critical to the lock down so as not to spread the virus, including to those of our society that are most vulnerable. Nursing home deaths in the US are over 15% despite most US nursing homes having extraordinarily tight restrictions from near the beginning. No family has been able to visit my grandmother in well over a month. But there are still people that work at those nursing homes, including administrators, cooks, janitors, healthcare workers, etc. If those same people are not socially distancing, or even just interacting with an increased number of others that are not socially distancing, those vulnerable senior still will be at more risk. Despite what some suggest, it is literally impossible to just isolate those among us that are vulnerable while letting everyone else do as they please. That is not the way disease spread works.
 
GT_EE78

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RonJohn said:
There are clinical studies being conducted, so they are looking more into it. I don't see politics in maintaining medical safeguards. Remdesivir was touted after similar results from clinical trials as HCQ from non-clinical trials. Get actual clinical information about HCQ and it will be touted as well. It is dangerous for non-medical or non-scientific people to believe that they know more about medicine than scientists and doctors. There might be some scientists and doctors who believe the HCQ works, but science doesn't determine truth from believe, it determines truth from proof. Let the clinical trials play out. We might find that HCQ is effective. We might find out that survivor plasma is effective. We might find out that the artificial antibody is effective. We need peer reviewed proof instead of hacked together studies and conjecture.
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I'm having a hard time believing that you don't already understand that what you're advocating isn't even possible and may never be.
you're a smart guy which is why i find some things you say very frustrating.
(not to mention that it would cost tens of thousands of lives just here in the US)
This is because the FDA only approved clinical studies for critically ill patients who are hospitalized.
(From what i've read ,once ventilated only about 20% survive)
So the urgently needed data to save lives isn't going to come from clinical trials because that isn't being allowed.
Doctors need data for which regimen works best at different stages of infection. They will get it however they can.
Luckily front-line doctors can already prescribe it and are doing so. Fortunately they do have meta-studies,case studies and European studies to get guidance from.
Unfortunately some states have committed evil actions such as banning pharmicists from filling prescriptions for off-label use..
It would cost tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of lives worldwide to wait for peer reviewed studies and FDA clinical trials.
Thank God doctors already know this.
 
Supersizethatorder-mutt

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bobongo said:
Heart complications caused the studies that were undertaken to be discontinued.
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So you don't give it to heart patients or patients who have underlying heart problems. You treat it the same as you do any other medication. If there is an underlying problem that means a certain medication would not be good for you, then duhhh, you don't administer it. There are plenty of people who have known allergies to penicillin, so you don't administer penicillin to those patients. That's a no-brainer overall, and certainly no reason to just base a universal decision on the fact that some people can't take a certain drug. The FACT remains, that in certain patients, HCL has apparently worked and worked 100%. The whole argument is just absurd.
 
GT_EE78

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bobongo said:
Debunked by who? I am asking this. The thread is 235 pages long.
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that Brazilian study used doses that were 2x to 3x the standard covid-19 dose.
It's been discussed several times
Hey look at the bright side at least that will keep you busy for a while :)
 

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GTRX7 said:
Do you think Sweden's nursing homes just magically attract the virus more than other countries' nursing homes? Or might it have been that, by not locking down, more people contracted the virus in Sweden, including those that visited the nursing homes? After all, that is what we have all been saying all along -- those less vulnerable to the virus are still critical to the lock down so as not to spread the virus, including to those of our society that are most vulnerable. Nursing home deaths in the US are over 15% despite most US nursing homes having extraordinarily tight restrictions from near the beginning. No family has been able to visit my grandmother in well over a month. But there are still people that work at those nursing homes, including administrators, cooks, janitors, healthcare workers, etc. If those same people are not socially distancing, or even just interacting with an increased number of others that are not socially distancing, those vulnerable senior still will be at more risk. Despite what some suggest, it is literally impossible to just isolate those among us that are vulnerable while letting everyone else do as they please. That is not the way disease spread works.
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Nursing homes are more like 50% here too. We can do both - we can be out and about and also protect those at risk. We can find a way to force 330 Americans to lock down but we somehow can’t find a way to do that to just a few million in nursing homes? Certainly we can set no visitation rules and PPE requirements and everything else.
 
bobongo

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Supersizethatorder-mutt said:
So you don't give it to heart patients or patients who have underlying heart problems. You treat it the same as you do any other medication. If there is an underlying problem that means a certain medication would not be good for you, then duhhh, you don't administer it. There are plenty of people who have known allergies to penicillin, so you don't administer penicillin to those patients. That's a no-brainer overall, and certainly no reason to just base a universal decision on the fact that some people can't take a certain drug. The FACT remains, that in certain patients, HCL has apparently worked and worked 100%. The whole argument is just absurd.
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COVID-19 causes heart problems. Hydroxychloroquine exacerbates them. Duh.
 
bobongo

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takethepoints said:
Soooooo … why does Belgium have the highest rate of COVID-19 deaths per million population of non-San Marino European country? See:

https://www.livemint.com/news/world...-highest-virus-death-rate-11587806581013.html

They say it's because they are counting all the symptomatic cases, not just those tested in hospitals. This could be an omen of what the future estimates will look like.
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LOTS of nursing home deaths have not ben counted. One nursing home in my town lost 11 patients quite suddenly - none have been added to the count.
 
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