Conference Realignment

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
NCAA tournament?
NCAA tournament includes all conference champions. Sure they have expanded to a ton of at large bids, but every single team in NCAA division 1 has an opportunity make the 2025 conference at this point.

For college football, it is much more limited even with the 12 team playoff.
 

roadkill

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,927
NCAA tournament includes all conference champions. Sure they have expanded to a ton of at large bids, but every single team in NCAA division 1 has an opportunity make the 2025 conference at this point.

For college football, it is much more limited even with the 12 team playoff.
I know this. I was simply providing a counterexample to the statement "no other major sport..."

As the playoff continues to expand, we can see more teams getting a shot via at-large bids. Apparently, that's not a good thing to some. I happen to think it is.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
I know this. I was simply providing a counterexample to the statement "no other major sport..."

As the playoff continues to expand, we can see more teams getting a shot via at-large bids. Apparently, that's not a good thing to some. I happen to think it is.
I think the argument about no other major sport is referencing pretty much everything other than FBS football. Teams "qualify" for the playoffs in every other sport that I know of. There are other NCAA sports where at large teams can enter the playoffs. However, none of those require a poll to see who "qualifies". NCAA football used to have no champion. It was only based on polls of coaches or reporters. Then they moved to the BCS, which was based on polls of coaches and reporters. Then to a four team playoff that was based solely on a committee who just decides who is in based on whatever reasons they want to use. Those reasons changed from year to year. Bill Hancock would say that some team was left out for reason A, then the next year reason A wasn't important and a team with that issue would get in. Now, there is a guarantee that five conference champions will get in, but the committee will decide which five conference champions those are and then fill in seven additional spots.

No other major sport uses polls or a committee to decide who "qualifies" for the playoffs/tournament. Many do make a decision on who else can get in, but that isn't assigning more "qualifiers". That is providing a second chance to "non-qualifiers".
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,113
The problem no one ever brings up about conference champions only is that schedules are not balanced. How many coastals would GT have won if we didn’t have an automatic ACC loss on our schedule while VT did not?

Conference championships are nice, but they are not the end all. Ask FSU how they feel about their 2023 season and I bet they wouldn’t even mention their ACC title. Ask Bama how they feel about their 2023 season and they’d say the same.

But again, it doesn’t matter at this point because the playoffs are here so the only question is how long until they expand again. I’m just glad that I’m still viable enough at age 54 to hopefully see a real playoff where all top 30 teams get a chance to prove themselves in a real post season. So you don’t have to hold your breath if you lose your QB for a game or two, or if you don’t make your conference champ game because you had a tougher path.
 

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
9,088
Location
North Shore, Chicago
The problem no one ever brings up about conference champions only is that schedules are not balanced. How many coastals would GT have won if we didn’t have an automatic ACC loss on our schedule while VT did not?

Conference championships are nice, but they are not the end all. Ask FSU how they feel about their 2023 season and I bet they wouldn’t even mention their ACC title. Ask Bama how they feel about their 2023 season and they’d say the same.

But again, it doesn’t matter at this point because the playoffs are here so the only question is how long until they expand again. I’m just glad that I’m still viable enough at age 54 to hopefully see a real playoff where all top 30 teams get a chance to prove themselves in a real post season. So you don’t have to hold your breath if you lose your QB for a game or two, or if you don’t make your conference champ game because you had a tougher path.
The thing I learned, and we all need to remember, is that this isn't a NCAA Fooball Championship tournament. This is the College Fooball Playoff and the winner is the champion of the College Football Playoff. They're not the CF National Champions, but the winner of a made-for-TV playoff that is not designed to equitably determine a National Champion.
 

yeti92

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,186
Yes, 100%.
To expand on this, ugag was able to completely ignore the SEC championship in 2021. It didn't matter at all that they got smashed by Alabama, and that's not right. The games, especially conference championships, need to matter, otherwise what's the point.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,196
NCAA tournament?
The NCAA tournament is extra inclusive instead of exclusive. It isn't leaving teams out that won their conference or went undefeated just because they don't like the cut of their jib. Everyone has their chance and the tournament isn't really trying to determine the "best" team. Pretty frequently, a team wins that no one would say was the best team. The final 8 frequently has multiple teams that wouldn't be in anyone's top 25 teams. Every team had a chance though and no one is really beholden to someone else's opinion.
 

roadkill

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,927
I think the argument about no other major sport is referencing pretty much everything other than FBS football. Teams "qualify" for the playoffs in every other sport that I know of. There are other NCAA sports where at large teams can enter the playoffs. However, none of those require a poll to see who "qualifies". NCAA football used to have no champion. It was only based on polls of coaches or reporters. Then they moved to the BCS, which was based on polls of coaches and reporters. Then to a four team playoff that was based solely on a committee who just decides who is in based on whatever reasons they want to use. Those reasons changed from year to year. Bill Hancock would say that some team was left out for reason A, then the next year reason A wasn't important and a team with that issue would get in. Now, there is a guarantee that five conference champions will get in, but the committee will decide which five conference champions those are and then fill in seven additional spots.

No other major sport uses polls or a committee to decide who "qualifies" for the playoffs/tournament. Many do make a decision on who else can get in, but that isn't assigning more "qualifiers". That is providing a second chance to "non-qualifiers".
I'm confused by your post. It may just be my reading comprehension. Are you implying that college basketball is not a major sport?
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
I'm confused by your post. It may just be my reading comprehension. Are you implying that college basketball is not a major sport?
I am saying that the selection committee for the NCAA basketball tournament does not exclude any teams who "qualified" for the tournament. They don't have the ability to exclude the Patriot League champion because they know that they are not one of the top 68 teams in the country.

EDIT: There is some nuiance. @WreckinGT said it well. The NCAA Tournament is "inclusive". The CFP is "exclusive". One way includes teams who did not actually qualify. The other way excludes people who should have qualified.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,113
The thing I learned, and we all need to remember, is that this isn't a NCAA Fooball Championship tournament. This is the College Fooball Playoff and the winner is the champion of the College Football Playoff. They're not the CF National Champions, but the winner of a made-for-TV playoff that is not designed to equitably determine a National Champion.
I totally understand that. Not much I can do about that. Hence, I gotta work within what is actually possible. When they created the BCS it was one of the happiest days of my “free time life” because as a kid I remember asking my dad, as we watched the New Years day games, why is #1 playing #5 while #2 is playing #4 and #3 is playing #9. I know now it’s all about money but the fact that our parents accepted this system is just still mysterious to me. At least my generation ended that and have tried to create a system where more teams and fanbases are engaged past October.

I know it’s still about money, but at least the powers have finally realized they can make more money by creating games people want to see. The days of the BIG hiding from a real matchup by running to Pasadena to play against a worthless PAC team are over. I am totally on board, and fully expect, the regular season to expand and for the “Invitational” to expand. They have realized that fans have plenty of disposable income and that we are suckers to spend it. I know I am. I am absolutely on board with spending money on regular season games and then on a conference championship game and then again on round after round of the invitational. It’s why I worked hard to get here.
 

roadkill

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,927
I am saying that the selection committee for the NCAA basketball tournament does not exclude any teams who "qualified" for the tournament. They don't have the ability to exclude the Patriot League champion because they know that they are not one of the top 68 teams in the country.

EDIT: There is some nuiance. @WreckinGT said it well. The NCAA Tournament is "inclusive". The CFP is "exclusive". One way includes teams who did not actually qualify. The other way excludes people who should have qualified.
And I'm saying that the middle ground that the current CFP strikes is ok given the state of college football today. It's neither totally exclusive or inclusive.

I understand the argument that some good teams shouldn't get a chance if they fail to win their conference. I disagree because a) college football has a much smaller set of regular season games to gauge a team's true strength than many other major sports, and b) college football conferences are nowhere near competitively balanced.
 

stinger78

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,955
I am saying that the selection committee for the NCAA basketball tournament does not exclude any teams who "qualified" for the tournament. They don't have the ability to exclude the Patriot League champion because they know that they are not one of the top 68 teams in the country.

EDIT: There is some nuiance. @WreckinGT said it well. The NCAA Tournament is "inclusive". The CFP is "exclusive". One way includes teams who did not actually qualify. The other way excludes people who should have qualified.
They also don't, as far as we know, disqualify teams that will not be good for TV viewership. By its size it is very inclusive, while the CFP is quite exclusive (except for two particular conferences). That is the basis for my statement that it is still unfair and bad for long-term competitiveness, and thus, broken. Bigger, but broken.
 

stinger78

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,955
The thing I learned, and we all need to remember, is that this isn't a NCAA Fooball Championship tournament. This is the College Fooball Playoff and the winner is the champion of the College Football Playoff. They're not the CF National Champions, but the winner of a made-for-TV playoff that is not designed to equitably determine a National Champion.
I'd be fine with this, too, but there is the agreement (hard not to type "collusion" here) that the CFP winner is crowned the national champion. Here's a separate but related issue: If the CFP ostensibly covers all of the FBS, then why are all the G5 conferences not represented? It's their champion but they don't even get an entry into the field. The solution: Have a P4 playoff and a G5 playoff that run simultaneously (more money). Make the P4 a 4-team playoff as it was and if you're an independent and want to be included then get in a darn conference (looking at you, Notre Dame). The G5 can do what they want - top 4 ranked champs, 5 teams and the bottom two seeded team have a play-in game, etc. Just make the regular season and the conferences matter. If you lose a flukey game, too bad, so sad. UGAg did that and didn't get in last year. Stunk for them, but the world survived. Bama was the champ and was the SECheat representative. They lost. Ha!
 

roadkill

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,927
I'd be fine with this, too, but there is the agreement (hard not to type "collusion" here) that the CFP winner is crowned the national champion. Here's a separate but related issue: If the CFP ostensibly covers all of the FBS, then why are all the G5 conferences not represented? It's their champion but they don't even get an entry into the field. The solution: Have a P4 playoff and a G5 playoff that run simultaneously (more money). Make the P4 a 4-team playoff as it was and if you're an independent and want to be included then get in a darn conference (looking at you, Notre Dame). The G5 can do what they want - top 4 ranked champs, 5 teams and the bottom two seeded team have a play-in game, etc. Just make the regular season and the conferences matter. If you lose a flukey game, too bad, so sad. UGAg did that and didn't get in last year. Stunk for them, but the world survived. Bama was the champ and was the SECheat representative. They lost. Ha!
Another solution would be to make two 64(ish)-team super-conferences divided into 8 regions apiece. We could call them the “American” conference and the “National” conference.

Have an 8-team playoff for each. Let the champions of each super-conference play each other in the College Superbowl. All under the governance of the CFP (no NCAA to muck things up).
 

roadkill

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,927
The thing I learned, and we all need to remember, is that this isn't a NCAA Fooball Championship tournament. This is the College Fooball Playoff and the winner is the champion of the College Football Playoff. They're not the CF National Champions, but the winner of a made-for-TV playoff that is not designed to equitably determine a National Champion.
When we win the CFP, I'm going to proudly say that GT is the National Champion. I don't care what anyone else thinks about the CFP.
 

roadkill

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,927
Or have a 64 team tournament after a 14 game regular season.
Well, I spent about 15 seconds thinking through my proposal so it may have some holes. :)

One thing it would accomplish is limiting the maximum number of games played by any team to 16, the same as the current setup.
 

stinger78

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,955
Another solution would be to make two 64(ish)-team super-conferences divided into 8 regions apiece. We could call them the “American” conference and the “National” conference.

Have an 8-team playoff for each. Let the champions of each super-conference play each other in the College Superbowl. All under the governance of the CFP (no NCAA to muck things up).
We already have one pro league. We really don’t need a bush league pro league. That does seem to be what is happening.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
Well, I spent about 15 seconds thinking through my proposal so it may have some holes. :)

One thing it would accomplish is limiting the maximum number of games played by any team to 16, the same as the current setup.
The current setup can go to 17 games is the winner doesn't get a bye in the first round.
 
Top