Coaching Carousel 5 - You have to look through the rain to see the rainbow

[YellowJacketFan2018]

Eric's Bossi on thoughts on the timing of the Wake decision and how it could affect their coaching search is part of this article.
https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/starting-five-n-c-state-off-to-hot-start-in-2021

WF should hire ETSU head coach Steve Forbes because he's superior to Wes Miller who i think would be an underwhelming hire because he's been highly average as head coach of UNCG.

 

[kg01]

WF should hire ETSU head coach Steve Forbes because he's superior to Wes Miller who i think would be an underwhelming hire because he's been highly average as head coach of UNCG.

While I'm not as high on Forbes as you (I think he'd be better but not that much better), I agree on Miller. However, I get the feeling Weak Florist wants to go as cheap as they can while also being able to "sell" the hire.

They'd be able to sell "potential" with Miller that they can't with an old fogey like Forbes.

 

[g0lftime]

If Miller is at UNCG then he would not have to move. He is only about 30 miles from Greensboro to Winston Salem. Very easy transition if he gets the offer and takes it. He should be known to HS coaches in NC as well. Most people outside NC don't know where WF is.

 

[mstranahan]

Most people outside NC don't know where WF is.

Cherry Street was the place to be in the 80s if you wanted to hang with the Wake coeds. Beatty's Music Garden was a blast. Saw Molly Hatchet there in '86 or '87 Good times

 

[forensicbuzz]

I think that perception is starting to see some erosion and part of it might be a function of the Big East hoops programs we brought in. Also, the Big East & B1G have been beating up on each other for years, but when the bubble comes up, their middle of the pack teams always seem to be getting benefit of the doubt, while the ACC teams on the fringes seem to get dismissed.

Beating up on each other or not, with a 20 game schedule, will we start seeing 10 ACC schools in the tourney? If not, that rep is not going to hold up over time.

Our hoops budget is the biggest mitigating factor, because it's one of the worst in the nation, but if the ACC is such a big deal to take on the big boys, how come it took like 8 candidates to land on CJP when Sasquatch was willing to pay up for a coach?

The ACC is not a big selling point for coaches when there are so many great jobs out there, especially when staring down a rebuild job in the ACC. Reality is that coaches don't really have much interest in that compared to their long time viability of receiving a big paycheck.

Perception in reality. Whether the ACC is the pre-eminent conference in basketball or not is debatable. However, for the time being, it's still considered the top. Same with the SEC in football. Look how bad the SEC East is overall. Look at how bad half the SEC West is. Still, SEC Football is the creme de la creme.

As for coaches...they're not stupid. I agree with what you say, in general, but Wojo is an ACC guy. He might even have designs on the Duke job down the road. I absolutely see the ACC draw for him. He goes to Wake Forest, he's recruiting in North Carolina. He shows he knows what he's doing, that Duke opportunity when Coach K walks away, or more specifically after the first guys fails a la Sean Dougherty, he gets what he wants. Just saying, ACC is still the king of the hill...until they're not.

 

[YellowJacketFan2018]

While I'm not as high on Forbes as you (I think he'd be better but not that much better), I agree on Miller. However, I get the feeling Weak Florist wants to go as cheap as they can while also being able to "sell" the hire.

They'd be able to sell "potential" with Miller that they can't with an old fogey like Forbes.

I think Steve Forbes could be sitting around biding his time waiting for Rick Barnes to retire at Tennessee because he would be the #1 candidate to succeed him. It wont shock me at all if WF hires UNCG head coach Wes Miller or someone like Georgia State head coach Rob Lanier.

 

[Peacone36]

I lived in Big East country in the '80s in Connecticut. ACC was always considered on par with Big East or better by the knowledgeable folks up there. I now live in Chicago, in the middle of B1G country. As much as they like to tout their B1G teams, they acknowledge that top-to-bottom, no conference stacks up to ACC. The ACC is to basketball what the SEC is to football. They may not have the best teams every year, but they beat each other up and always has at least 1 or 2 teams vying for the national championship. As good as many of the Big East teams are, there is no question the college basketball perception is it's the ACC and then everyone else. Conference strength fluctuates from year-to-year, but the ACC is seldom, if ever, really down.

so, really.

not any longer, certainly not in the last 12 months and probably not in the next 12 months. As far as history? Sure. In the last 5 years? Eh, Nova, Butler, Xavier and even Seton Hall have become very good programs. Hell, we have even seen some of the best kids in Georgia head to Xavier instead of playing in the ACC or SEC.

The ACC is currently in the middle of an interesting period of bad coaching hires/extensions by its mid-tier programs , end of the line situations (Syracuse and Notre Dame most notably) at some of its better programs, and financial concerns at a couple.

Also, the whole “come to the ACC, we are the best” selling point can quite easily be counteracted by the “go to the ACC and get your *** kicked by 3 of the top 7 coaches in the country and possibly lose your job in 3-4 years?” argument. Especially when you can sign a nice extension and wait the old guys out for 3 years.

If you can consistently win in the Big East no one needs you move up to ACC before they’ll believe you’re a good coach.

 

[CuseJacket]

I lived in Big East country in the '80s in Connecticut. ACC was always considered on par with Big East or better by the knowledgeable folks up there. I now live in Chicago, in the middle of B1G country. As much as they like to tout their B1G teams, they acknowledge that top-to-bottom, no conference stacks up to ACC. The ACC is to basketball what the SEC is to football. They may not have the best teams every year, but they beat each other up and always has at least 1 or 2 teams vying for the national championship. As good as many of the Big East teams are, there is no question the college basketball perception is it's the ACC and then everyone else. Conference strength fluctuates from year-to-year, but the ACC is seldom, if ever, really down.

so, really.

Not to pile on, but I am revisiting this earlier post. What's missing in this imo is that the 90's and 00's happened since your time in CT in the 80's, and a lot changed in that time. The Big East was often (not always) considered better than the ACC. This was repeated on Gameday/ESPN i.e., national audiences. No regional bias. Stats backed up the commentary too.

I think the perception changed mildly when the ACC poached Louisville, Syracuse and Pitt... which has worked out probably worse than expected, if I'm being honest for the schools and the league, save for maybe Louisville. And the vacuum that was created in the northeast has enabled the rise of Nova, Seton Hall (maybe), etc. Add in Xavier, Butler, Creighton and it's a stout league by any criteria. I might have said 5 years ago that a Big East coach would/should auto-jump to an ACC school no matter what, such as GT, but I agree with @Peacone36 and others that it really doesn't make sense. Big East is sitting pretty competitively and based on perception.

I'll concede that the ACC can get by with surface level, lay fan perception of "they got Duke" and therefore are great, much like SEC football has Bama, but the hype machine behind ACC basketball is nowhere near the magnitude nor effectiveness of the SEC thumping in football.

 

[RamblinRed]

Wake fans are going through the ups and downs of rumors right now. Beilein and Smart are out. Rumor is Miller is out.
Another rumor that surfaced this morning (from one of the board insiders) is that Amaker is on campus today. That has their coach search thread at about defcon 4.
Conflicting rumors on whether Matta is in play.
Kelsey is getting a fair bit of mention as is Forbes - though there are conflicting rumors over whether he is a viable candidate or not.

Also, rumor is the buyout is going to end up being $7.5M.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I understand you guys think differently, but I still have friends in CT, kids I went to HS with who went to Syracuse, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, etc. There was always debate about which was better, ACC vs. Big10. Sampson v. Ewing, etc. Big East basketball was a different animal. They went to 6 fouls in league games, like the pros for a while.

The Big East of those years is no more. However, I think a head-to-head match up with ACC and Big East would render a similar result as the ACC / B1G Challenge. They might jump out every now and then, but the ACC would usually win more than they lose.

As for coaches, my comment was specific to Wojo and what he might do. There are many paths to where you want to go, but I think if Wojo wanted to be at Duke, he might feel showing those who are watching that he can compete in the ACC, more specifically, recruiting along Tobacco Road. That was my sole point.

All in all, it's just an opinion, everyone's got one. Don't mind the piling on as long as it's not personal.

 

[H-Wade]

Didn't the last Marquette coach leave to go to an ACC team? If VT can match the Marquette pay, why not WF?

 

[Peacone36]

Didn't the last Marquette coach leave to go to an ACC team? If VT can match the Marquette pay, why not WF?

welp, they seem to be honing in on a B1G Coach.....

 

[slugboy]

Boy, if Wake screws this up, I’ll be impressed. I was hearing when they fired Manning that they had his replacement locked.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[dtm1997]

Perception in reality. Whether the ACC is the pre-eminent conference in basketball or not is debatable. However, for the time being, it's still considered the top. Same with the SEC in football. Look how bad the SEC East is overall. Look at how bad half the SEC West is. Still, SEC Football is the creme de la creme.

As for coaches...they're not stupid. I agree with what you say, in general, but Wojo is an ACC guy. He might even have designs on the Duke job down the road. I absolutely see the ACC draw for him. He goes to Wake Forest, he's recruiting in North Carolina. He shows he knows what he's doing, that Duke opportunity when Coach K walks away, or more specifically after the first guys fails a la Sean Dougherty, he gets what he wants. Just saying, ACC is still the king of the hill...until they're not.

If perception is reality, I grew up in the heart of Big East country during the 80s and early 90s, so my perception dictates the reality that the Big East has always stacked up well against the ACC.

Also, I don't know who Sean Dougherty is.

Meanwhile, Chris Collins to Wake would be pretty amazing.

 

[YlJacket]

I understand you guys think differently, but I still have friends in CT, kids I went to HS with who went to Syracuse, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, etc. There was always debate about which was better, ACC vs. Big10. Sampson v. Ewing, etc. Big East basketball was a different animal. They went to 6 fouls in league games, like the pros for a while.

The Big East of those years is no more. However, I think a head-to-head match up with ACC and Big East would render a similar result as the ACC / B1G Challenge. They might jump out every now and then, but the ACC would usually win more than they lose.

As for coaches, my comment was specific to Wojo and what he might do. There are many paths to where you want to go, but I think if Wojo wanted to be at Duke, he might feel showing those who are watching that he can compete in the ACC, more specifically, recruiting along Tobacco Road. That was my sole point.

All in all, it's just an opinion, everyone's got one. Don't mind the piling on as long as it's not personal.

As an aside, the Big East of the 6 foul days was really "unique" in the way they constructed their teams and officiated their games. It was really hard to play on the front line unless you had some resemblance to an NFL tight end. And Jordan rules before the Pistons picked up on the concept. IMHO it was when the officials were shared between conferences and the officiating became more uniform and structured to allow free flow and movement that the BE lost some of its mojo. And that was before the ACC rape of the BE - though I am not sure taking VT and Miami affected BE basketball much at all.

 

[RamblinRed]

FWIW, the reported final 6 for Wake is Matta, Forbes, Miller, Kelsey, Amaker and Odom

 

[forensicbuzz]

FWIW, the reported final 6 for Wake is Matta, Forbes, Miller, Kelsey, Amaker and Odom

Odom? Which Odom? Surely Dave Odom is long retired. He has to be in his late 70's by now.

 

[kg01]

Odom? Which Odom? Surely Dave Odom is long retired. He has to be in his late 70's by now.

No, Ryan Odom at UMBC.

Dang, I should've just said Dave to mess with you.

 

[kg01]

FWIW, the reported final 6 for Wake is Matta, Forbes, Miller, Kelsey, Amaker and Odom

No idea how Kelsey keeps gettin put up for jobs.

 

[mstranahan]

Would surprise me to see Amaker leave Harvard. He didn’t do so well at Michigan and I doubt Harvard wants him gone. More importantly, his wife has tenure as a prof at Harvard. Can’t imagine leaving a tenured teaching prof job at Harvard for same at Wake