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Yes. I assert you used incorrect statements to attempt to unnecessarily exacerbate the negative view on Pastner's performance.
Coaching Carousel 5 - You have to look through the rain to see the rainbow
- Thread starter Peacone36
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Yes. I assert you used incorrect statements to attempt to unnecessarily exacerbate the negative view on Pastner's performance.
nah, I didn’t say that and that nonsense doesn’t play here either. The whole “you didn’t play, how do you know” angle is garbage. How many seasons in a row do I need to be correct about this programs trajectory before I graduate from troll to profit? Being a fan isn’t about accepting mediocrity, it’s about demanding the top end of your programs upside. Your acceptance of these results is an abomination.
Vespidae
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I don’t have a negative view of Josh. I have an objective view.
I’ve met Josh. He’s a nice guy. He’s a good, but not a great coach. And his performance has not been as good at Tech as it was prior.
That’s not negative. That’s reality. I wish we had a 0.75 wpct. But we don’t.
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Sure. I have that same objective view. Separately, I have the view that I shouldn't post factually incorrect statements.
Anyway, enjoy the New Year.
Vespidae
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Just because you say it’s factually incorrect doesn’t make it so. It’s all there online.
GT11
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Never once did I say I accept. There’s always room for improvement. Talking coaching changes before the season starts is an abomination. That hurts recruiting as much as anything. Despite all the negativity, this years signing class was very good and hopefully was a start of things to come. People need to let things play out and wait till a team is at full strength before they start using the pen to get coaches fired. This is his best group except for the team he inherited. That team was all 4 and 5 year players. His coaching was never questioned that year, and they were playing his way. It’s easy to set back after a game and say he should of done this or that. I initially questioned the hire myself, but the foundation is there and I continue to support and be there, looking and expecting improvement every year
lv20gt
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IMO some people believe that firing a coach is about punishment for bad coaching. It isn't. Schools change coaches when they believe it is best for the program. That means sometimes a bad coach is retained or a good coach is fired because of the options going forward.
With that being said, let's assume Pastner is safe until after year 5 for financial reasons. What will be the factors looked at when determining whether we are better off with him or with trying to replace him? Well for starters his time at Memphis is meaningless. It just isn't relevant. When determining whether Pastner should get a year 6/7 you aren't going to look at a different school in a different conference, a decade ago when you can just look at what he has done at the school in the conference that he will be if he is retained. That is also why what he did in the first 3 years both the good, ACC CoY in year 1, and the bad, years 2 and 3, won't be weighted nearly as much as what happens this year and next. Because those years were transition years, and this year and next are years he's had nearly a full cycle to build and coach a roster, and the latter is the case that he would have going forward. Lastly, how he recruits in 21 will go a long ways towards whether he is retained. There is a reason that Hewitt was retained after 08-09 while Gregory was fired after his best year in 16. The answer is Hewitt was bringing in a top 5 class, and Gregory was bringing in a 2 man class in response to losing everyone. So yeah, the 21 recruiting class will go a long ways towards either buying Pastner more time or pushing him out the door.
The reality is the criteria that he will most be judged on hasn't happened yet. Even so far this year, the way we play in ACC play, with a full roster, will outweigh what we did without Jose.
With that being said, let's assume Pastner is safe until after year 5 for financial reasons. What will be the factors looked at when determining whether we are better off with him or with trying to replace him? Well for starters his time at Memphis is meaningless. It just isn't relevant. When determining whether Pastner should get a year 6/7 you aren't going to look at a different school in a different conference, a decade ago when you can just look at what he has done at the school in the conference that he will be if he is retained. That is also why what he did in the first 3 years both the good, ACC CoY in year 1, and the bad, years 2 and 3, won't be weighted nearly as much as what happens this year and next. Because those years were transition years, and this year and next are years he's had nearly a full cycle to build and coach a roster, and the latter is the case that he would have going forward. Lastly, how he recruits in 21 will go a long ways towards whether he is retained. There is a reason that Hewitt was retained after 08-09 while Gregory was fired after his best year in 16. The answer is Hewitt was bringing in a top 5 class, and Gregory was bringing in a 2 man class in response to losing everyone. So yeah, the 21 recruiting class will go a long ways towards either buying Pastner more time or pushing him out the door.
The reality is the criteria that he will most be judged on hasn't happened yet. Even so far this year, the way we play in ACC play, with a full roster, will outweigh what we did without Jose.
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If you don’t label it clearly, he’ll think it’s from Purdue fans.
ETA: Bickering amongst ourselves is kind of our thing.
ETA2: Somehow, I was thinking of DRad instead of MBob at first, and fixed it. DRad also deserves a nice care package for his handling of the MBB program.
ETA3: It’s a joke. Don’t send anything.
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I prefer hair-brained assertions, personally.
That was an impressive descent into madness via ETA's.
Bogey
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The Syracuse loss was Dec 7 and Ball State Dec 18, both around finals. Being a Tech grad, I can certainly understand poor performances in December. And coach seemed to understand it as well as he seemed to not take it too seriously, and got hammered for that also. I would venture to guess that he does not push his players too hard during this period. I can accept unfavorable thoughts towards our coach. But I have to say that I think anyone, particularly anyone in a position of influence, who keeps pushing their agenda of a coaching change at this time, is not acting in the best interest of the program. We will know a hell of a lot more after results of this year season is known and the 2021 recruiting class is complete. This my is view point that I have stated many times on here, and will leave it at that for awhile. I look froward to enjoying Tech basketball the rest of the season and watching the kids play the game they love. Go Jackets.
Buzzbomb
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My viewpoint is the program is not generating too much excitement right now. The prevailing thoughts amongst my GT brethren are that we need change, and I am an advocate in that the A.D. needs to get closer to the situation. Football guy or not. Associate A.D. and his performance needs to be examined as well. I can think of around 2 million or more reasons the coaches should have had the team more prepared against Syracuse and Ball St. Those have to be the two worst performances in this decade, whether before, during or after exams. I’m pulling for us to win all the remaining games. Reality days we will struggle to win half of those contests. CJP is the steward.
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How do you know that the AD is not close to the situation?
Before making the call for a change, how do you suggest we improve the overall attractiveness of the job that will result in landing a quality candidate and position them for success?
Do you think we're better served spending money on a buyout or having CJP another year as a lame duck, possibly allowing for further investment in the program for the next head coach?
I ask these questions being in agreement that the Cuse & Ball State games were awful and the overall performance the past 2.5 seasons being less than mediocre.
Buzzbomb
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I know you are hurting, because you have a tremendous passion for the team. I’ve never disagreed with you on funding. It’s hard for me to keep on giving more to a school sport that supports buyouts, even though they are part of the culture. I’m a State Alum, therefore I want the Tech donations & ticket money to go to the athletes. Realizing the administrative costs, it’s like any charitable having to cover expenses first. Please don’t make me account for The Board of Regents or the academic side, since we already know that’s a separate entity and is funded far greater than the A.A.
Buzzbomb
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It can’t always be about money. We’ve witnessed the waste in buyouts. No disrespect intended to you or any other Font on here that already pours their money, time and heart into this program...but the big football guys like Taz, Dew, et al, are not coming to rescue us. The interest has dwindled in our season ticket base. Even families like the Zelnak’s, McCamish, want their dough going to facilities.
Vespidae
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If you look at the success of the golf program, it is about money. GT Golf has raised a ton of dough outside of the AA. It can be done.
Buzzbomb
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Yes, to agreeing with you on Golf. My golfing friends get on to me for calling it a rich man’s game. Danny has done a good job of that with Beesball. Jim Morris might have been the best at using promotional tools. He told me to keep feeding him ideas, and I noticed he tried one of them at Miami. I should not have been all inclusive with all 16 sports, if I insinuated such. I confess to knowing nothing about swimming, other than I know how to do it. Think I’ll pull myself out of these “deep waters” of this rant today. I feel @kg01 coming back to dunk me. He’s a character. A good one, but don’t tell him I said he was
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New Old Guy
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Agree completely re exams, and everyone on here who went thru them at Tech can understand and appreciate your point, no matter their feelings on CJP and MBB in general. The Syracuse game was more impacted than most of us realize. It was originally scheduled for the Sunday following exam week. That would have presented enough problems, but then the league moved our game to Saturday to avoid any school conflicts with the ACC FB Championship that Saturday (obviously Syracuse and GT were not in contention for being in that game). That one day move meant that we were not able to practice and prepare for Syracuse, not even once. Exam schedules were such that there was no time during the week the team was free to gather for a practice, and the Saturday noon tip off meant that we could not even do anything that day.
So, we went in to the game cold and unprepared, after a grueling exam week. As we all know, it showed. But I think CJP's acceptance of the game results (that many of us took as a sign of being flippant or uncaring) was really just an acceptance of the reality of the jam that the ACC put us in. I took his demeanor as sort of "what can I do" (other than complain to the league).
We are all proud of being Tech fans (it takes some patience, I know). And we know what "getting out" means, including surviving exams at the end of each term. I wish the ACC better appreciated the load our SA's have, and avoided assigning league games to the day after exam week.
Sorry for the rant!
684Bee
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yes. Exactly.