Coaches on the Hot Seat

[AE 87]

Two things about this...

1) Giving a coach a 10 year contract is stupid, especially one that had only been at the school for a year or two.

2) As a GT fan, it's hard to wrap my mind around firing a coach that has made the NCAA tourney 5 out of 7 years.

Texas just fired a coach who made the NCAA tournament 19 of the last 20 years. Its pretty humbling. For us the NCAA tournament has turned into a pipe dream. For others it isn't even enough for a coach to keep his job.

It's like some GT fans in football, I guess.

 

[dtm1997]

That settles that

 

[awbuzz]

T. Boone's golden rule.... "the one with the gold, makes the rules."

 

[RamblinRed]

Once I realized the financial shape we were in, it became alot easier - after about 2 days of venting, of understanding why Gregory is still coach - and frankly why he should be.
Until we can get our financial ducks in a row, it makes no sense to make a change. I at least get where MBob was coming from - he didn't want to make a change unless he could get rid of both buyouts so he could make legit offers and not just another cheap hire.

I get that. I don't like it. But I get it and realize we aren't through our purgatory yet.

Here is sort of what is warming my heart though. Right now, it looks like the majority of my top 5 are going to stay put - and Price took a HC gig so we will get to see how he does, and continue to see how Neal does. It's hard to be patient, but at this point it is the best course of action. You almost wonder if Price took the Charlotte job hoping to get the GT job in a couple of years. Most pundits already are talking like that - if he succeeds GT could come calling in a couple of years.

Read an article on the TX situation by Chip Brown - who is basically TX mouthpiece. That was interesting. Apparently the TX AD did not have much interest in Marshall - didn't think his 'personality' fit with TX. Wants someone that will really sweet talk the donors and get the fans fully involved. Also, AD Patterson is from WI just like Smart. He apparently wanted one of Wright or Smart. Looks like he will probably get Smart. Sounded like he thought Marshall would potentially be a little too blunt (a reputation he has).

 

[RamblinRed]

I wonder if this means they didn't get the positive response from Marshall they are hoping for. Their AD flew to Wichita Monday morning but left Monday night alone.
Marshall can certainly wait for whatever job he wants. If KY opens in a couple of weeks I could see them going hard after Marshall - they won't care about his personality at all - all they care about is whether you win. If not that IND could be open in a yr. UNC and Duke will open in the next 5 yrs.

 

[orientalnc]

Once I realized the financial shape we were in, it became alot easier - after about 2 days of venting, of understanding why Gregory is still coach - and frankly why he should be.
Until we can get our financial ducks in a row, it makes no sense to make a change. I at least get where MBob was coming from - he didn't want to make a change unless he could get rid of both buyouts so he could make legit offers and not just another cheap hire.

I get that. I don't like it. But I get it and realize we aren't through our purgatory yet.

Here is sort of what is warming my heart though. Right now, it looks like the majority of my top 5 are going to stay put - and Price took a HC gig so we will get to see how he does, and continue to see how Neal does. It's hard to be patient, but at this point it is the best course of action. You almost wonder if Price took the Charlotte job hoping to get the GT job in a couple of years. Most pundits already are talking like that - if he succeeds GT could come calling in a couple of years.

Read an article on the TX situation by Chip Brown - who is basically TX mouthpiece. That was interesting. Apparently the TX AD did not have much interest in Marshall - didn't think his 'personality' fit with TX. Wants someone that will really sweet talk the donors and get the fans fully involved. Also, AD Patterson is from WI just like Smart. He apparently wanted one of Wright or Smart. Looks like he will probably get Smart. Sounded like he thought Marshall would potentially be a little too blunt (a reputation he has).

Texas is the richest public university in the country. They feel like they should never have to settle for less than what they want.

 

[Techster]

I wonder if this means they didn't get the positive response from Marshall they are hoping for. Their AD flew to Wichita Monday morning but left Monday night alone.
Marshall can certainly wait for whatever job he wants. If KY opens in a couple of weeks I could see them going hard after Marshall - they won't care about his personality at all - all they care about is whether you win. If not that IND could be open in a yr. UNC and Duke will open in the next 5 yrs.

Marshall was at the top of my list since before we hired Gregory...until I read that article on him. Sorry, great BBall coach, but don't like coaches that are scared of challenges and are more comfortable being a big fish in a small pond. That article didn't reflect too greatly on Marshall's competitiveness. I get wanting to put yourself in a position to succeed, but flat out saying "I'm not going to a program unless they're already one of the top programs in the league and I can win big right away" comes off as coat tail riding.

Guys like that definitely would not last at GT.

 

[slugboy]

Once I realized the financial shape we were in, it became alot easier - after about 2 days of venting, of understanding why Gregory is still coach - and frankly why he should be.
Until we can get our financial ducks in a row, it makes no sense to make a change. I at least get where MBob was coming from - he didn't want to make a change unless he could get rid of both buyouts so he could make legit offers and not just another cheap hire.

I get that. I don't like it. But I get it and realize we aren't through our purgatory yet.

It's 2019--four more years--until we're done with the Hewitt buyout, unless something changes, right?

 

[Techster]

It's 2019--four more years--until we're done with the Hewitt buyout, unless something changes, right?

Only thing that changes is that possibly the $$$ donors are on a two year buyout plan for both coaches. They put a chunk down this year and we take a hit in 2015-2016 season, and put another chunk down next year to complete the buyout and hit the coaching market.

All things being equal, and unless CBG actually starts winning, gotta think the Athletic Department has to be cognizant that the damage you do to the program with the apathy and people not showing up at McCamish is a lot larger than the financial hit of a buyout.

People talk about not being able to afford to buyout two coaches at the same time as a reason why CBG is still with GT, but can GT afford the long term ramifications of seeing out CBG's contract? To me, that's a bigger issue than having to hang on to a coach that's not delivering. Few things there:

1. Does another coach really want this job if from the outside it looks like an administration has no clue how to run a program? Appearances are big when trying to attract a coach. No decent coach wants a job if it looks like a career killer.

2. What does it do to the roster? Big class coming in 2016, and if CBG is recruiting "his" players, that means the next coach has to use the same players to rebuild the program. A coach has a harder time rebuilding if his hands are tied because of the roster is set. See point #1.

3. Loss revenue that can't be recovered if attendance goes down...and now that we know we're stuck with CBG, attendance and season ticket sales will go down. Barring a good season where we are in the hunt for the Tourney, I don't think people will care enough to show up to get their hopes up. GT relies on "sidewalk" fans for attendance, and you risk losing a chunk of them for good. Atlanta has too many sports teams and other forms of entertainment that those fans will want to put their money elsewhere, and possibly permanently, if they believe they are throwing their money away on a program that doesn't care to put the best product out there.

4. Recruiting. CBG already has a hard time attracting top tier talent, how much harder is his job if every recruit knows he's a lame duck marching towards the chopping block? This is tied to #2.

I would like to think the guys running the athletic department aren't that naïve to believe just waiting for the contract to self terminate is the best answer. There are larger business and brand sustaining implications here for our basketball program at play other than the cost of a contract...which in the end could be more expensive in terms of lost revenue and brand value.

 

[Connell62]

While the fundraising never took off, primarily to donors being tired of bailing out the AD, I think that it was also because there wasn't really a can't miss hire out there that wouldn't absolutely bankrupt us.

Flash forward two years down the road and have a successful Mark Price sitting at Charlotte, and I think that you would see checks being written and donations being made at a rapid pace to bring him home. Mark Price is synonymous with GT basketball and I think that people would be lining up to help out in that situation. Since that candidate wasn't really there, the situation became clear pretty quickly.

No choice but to stay the course until more $$ becomes available, and you have to hope that the team becomes competitive and drive more ticket sales.

 

[lv20gt]

In two years Price's ability to recruit will almost certainly still be a major ? due to the fact of him only having one full class signed. And while he could make huge immediate strides for the 49ers, more likely he'll have more modest first steps in improving them, if he does. Considering CUSA was a one team conference in the NCAA I believe, it's highly likely that even if he does well, in two years he will still be a coach without NCAAT experience. If we wait two years so the buyout situation is resolved, assuming it is in two years, then it wouldn't make sense to turn around and hire a guy that would be seen as a budget hire if it wasn't for him playing here.

And while he may be synonymous with GT basketball for a lot of people, he hasn't been here in 30 years. For pretty much everyone 40 or younger they have little recollection of his college days, people 25 or younger probably don't remember much of his pro days at all. To a large portion of the fanbase, Price is a guy who you know was really good, but that's very different than being a guy you remember watching being really good. And the hire would be compared to Lowe at NCSU. It would not be nearly as universally praised as people here would think.

Price would have been a fine choice for this year when paying two buyouts would limit us. He almost certainly wouldn't make a fine choice if we decide to wait the buyouts out, unless for some unknown reason that means 4+ years.

 

[AE 87]

5'11" not overly fast or athletic plays more than 10 yrs in the league with several years of allstar recognition. But, he's just budget hire except for playing for Tech?

The guy's playing experience screams that he knows the game. His post playing experience screams can teach the game. No hire will be able to show they can recruit to Tech.

I get that MP doesn't have the resume to make me or most entirely comfortable but reducing his qualifications is weak stuff, imo.

Let's face facts: the not Mark Price voices own the CBG hire. They have no right to complain imo.

 

[lv20gt]

And his playing days doesn't mean nearly as much in terms of how good of a coach he will be as people try to make it out. Playing the game and coaching it are two extremely different things, and in many ways being a great player can hinder a person's ability to be a good coach for a number of reasons. Anyone who attended college should have experience with profs who were very good in their field, and really bad teachers. If not you're extremely lucky. Maybe he'll be a good or even great coach, but him being a great player doesn't really prove that, nor is it really even strong support.

The simple truth is that in two years major questions will still be there regarding recruiting, and he will only two years head coaching experience, above the high school level, and only 3 total years of college coaching experience. If he went to any other ACC school other than GT it would be widely accepted as a budget hire, and him playing here, doesn't suddenly make him a better choice for us compared to any other ACC school. That's not reducing his qualifications. That's just stating them.

And no, face the facts. Not everyone who is against Price was for gregory. I hated it. I hated it then, and I hate it now. I strongly believed that he was doomed to fail and should have never been even been given the opportunity. We were hamstung by money and still tried to land a guy with extensive head coaching experience. It made no sense. Just like it makes no sense to delay making a change in order to be in a better financial situation to compete for proven coaches, and then turn around and hire a guy with minimal experience both as a head coach and in college in general. It's the same backwards thinking that it was last time, just in reverse. Hire a guy like Price when you're weighted down financially. You go after a more proven commodity when you are out from under that weight.

 

[kg01]

In an attempt to re-rail a bit ...



You know, I realize Marshall is the end-all/be-all, but if I'm WichitaSt I'm a little miffed. It's like man you have one of the best coaching packages in the country, you have the run of the place and you're still shopping? We get it, you're a hot commodity but at some point you're either in or you ain't.

 

[AE 87]

Sorry. I thought I was more clear. By referring to his size and athleticism, I intended to suggest he isn't the type who can do but not teach. Also, I referred to his post play experience at teaching that you ignore.

You also ignored my point about recruiting.

Finally, you seem to confuse want with ability to get. My point wasn't that everyone against Price wanted Gregory but that he was the best not Price we could get.

 

[RamblinRed]

Marshall shouldn't take a job that isn't ready to win right away - that would be a dumb move on his part.
He has built 2 powerhouse programs at their levels - Winthrop and Wichita St. He's finished 1st in his league 9 out of 17 years. He took Winthrop to 7 NCAA Tourneys - 7!!! in 9 years.
Why go to a rebuild situation. He's done that. He's at the point he gets to reap the rewards for past accomplishments.

I don't think Wichita fans will be upset with him at all. He has built their program into a powerhouse. Taken a team to the Final Four and beat Kansas. He's been plenty loyal to them. He's turned down quite a few offers. I actually appreciate that he is honest and says he'll listen if someone wants to talk. He always says it would take an incredible situation to make him leave.

 

[RamblinRed]

Yes, Hewitt has 4 yrs left - but GT won't go that long before making a change. I'm thinking 2 years. In 2 years the total buyouts would be $2.3M (compared to $6M right now). That might be alot easier to raise.

 

[lv20gt]

Your point about his size and athleticism is moot because those aren't the only two natural qualities that relate to basketball. Being able to see the court, predict what you and your opponent will do, analyze, during the game, and understand not only what the opposing team is doing but also what you you need to do to counter that is as much a natural gift as sheer size, and can cause an issue to teach someone who don't do those things as naturally as the coach did.

I have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to post play. So explain if you want.

Your point about recruiting was ignored because it's a red hearing. A guy who's been in college 10 years as an assistant and another 6 as a head coach will have more recruiting ties, both to highschool/AAU coaches as well as to quality assistants, than a guy who has 3 total years of college experience. Trying to equate those two scenarios as both not being prepared is absurd. Recruiting, especially for basketball, at GT is not nearly as different than other schools as people make it out to be. That's an easy excuse that people make and run with it.

And no, gregory wasn't the most not Price. He was the most not Hewitt. Both on the court, in terms of style, as well as off the court in superficial ways. Gregory wasn't the best anything we could get. He was a lazy hire designed to be superficially different than our previous coach, without bring the differences that mattered. The opposite of gregory isn't somebody with no experience. It was a long term assistant or a successful head coach from a lower level. Price wasn't even on the spectrum, and willjust barely be so in two years.

 

[AE 87]

OK, again I will try to be more clear
1) If you don't know what he's done post playing, you shouldn't assert that he's only being considered because of playing for GT

2) If you think your list in the first paragraph is natural rather than learned and teachable you may be alone, imo.

3) You ignored the fact that coaches hire assistants which can help recruiting etc.

4) I don't think you understand what happened with Gregory hire, but it seems we've exhausted this topic.

 

[dtm1997]

@lv20gt points out
<--- deserves name LazyAD. Drink!