Ceiling of the Program

[Boaty1]

Since we joined the ACC we have been a borderline top 25 program. I believe we should expect to return to that as these last 5 years have been a disaster.

We have a lot of resources here. I think Collins is doing a solid job selling this program a can return us to a consistent threat to win the division. I don’t see any reason why we can’t consistently recruit in the top 20 once we start to field competitive teams.

 

[Southpawmac]

Tech ranks 77th in NFL talent. These players are going to suddenly begin picking Tech over Alabama, Georgia, Clemson and LSU because .... ?

We don’t run the option anymore.

 

[Boaty1]

Tech ranks 77th in NFL talent. These players are going to suddenly begin picking Tech over Alabama, Georgia, Clemson and LSU because .... ?

77th in NFL talent? My God Johnson was an even better coach than I thought he was.

You do realize players go the pros from outside those 4 programs don’t you?

 

[Vespidae]

We don’t run the option anymore.

Ok. So, I looked our record from 1990 to 2007 before we ran the option. We averaged 7 wins a season. So can we assume we just weren’t recruiting good players during the O Leary and Gailey years but now ... we are? When it is harder?

 

[Vespidae]

77th in NFL talent? My God Johnson was an even better coach than I thought he was.

You do realize players go the pros from outside those 4 programs don’t you?

Of course they do. But it’s heavily skewed toward the major programs. Just look at the data.

My question is, do we really think Tech is going to be regularly landing great recruiting classes now ... when our history is we haven’t? What’s the special cause that’s going to lead this transformation?

Note: TStan has repeatedly said we are not going to win the recruiting wars. Curious as to why so many disagree with him.

 

[Boaty1]

Ok. So, I looked our record from 1990 to 2007 before we ran the option. We averaged 7 wins a season. So can we assume we just weren’t recruiting good players during the O Leary and Gailey years but now ... we are? When it is harder?

12 of those 17 years we played an 11 game schedule instead of 12.

An average of that span does not describe our ceiling.

 

[DieselTeeth]

Most depressing fan base ever

 

[Boaty1]

Of course they do. But it’s heavily skewed toward the major programs. Just look at the data.

My question is, do we really think Tech is going to be regularly landing great recruiting classes now ... when our history is we haven’t? What’s the special cause that’s going to lead this transformation?

Note: TStan has repeatedly said we are not going to win the recruiting wars. Curious as to why so many disagree with him.

No. I don’t believe we can consistently recruit in the top 10. I do however believe we should expect to recruit in the top half of the ACC with some years in the top 4. With our resources I think anything below that is seriously underperforming on the recruiting trail.

 

[Boaty1]

Most depressing fan base ever

Yes!!! They have no clue how much their pessimism damages the program.

My goodness if I was thinking of becoming a fan then came to this board I would say heck no, these people aren’t even believing they can compete.

 

[DieselTeeth]

Yes!!! They have no clue how much their pessimism damages the program.

My goodness if I was thinking of becoming a fan then came to this board I would say heck no, these people aren’t even believing they can compete.

This fan base loves misery

 

[Vespidae]

12 of those 17 years we played an 11 game schedule instead of 12.

An average of that span does not describe our ceiling.

I used our win rate and applied it to a 12 game season.

Theoretically, our ceiling is always undefeated. And totally unrealistic based on past performance.

 

[takethepoints]

Dabo nailed it when he said you can win national titles with good recruits and bad coaching but you’ll never win national titles with bad recruits and great coaching.

Dabo would say that, now wouldn't he? Nobody has ever said he was a Dodd on the sidelines; he's hardly a Muschamp.

I guess it depends on what you call "bad recruits". But that is so subjective and program dependent that I won't touch it.

 

[takethepoints]

77th in NFL talent? My God Johnson was an even better coach than I thought he was.

You do realize players go the pros from outside those 4 programs don’t you?

You might also point out the quite large contingent of NFL players who never attended college at all. I'll mention my favorite again: Otis Sistrunk. When they started to get the players to introduce themselves before games and give their college, Otis always said, "Otis Sistrunk. University of Mars." I believed him, of course.

 

[Boaty1]

I used our win rate and applied it to a 12 game season.

Theoretically, our ceiling is always undefeated. And totally unrealistic based on past performance.

5 straight top 25 seasons with a top 10 finish is what the last 5 years of the O’Leary years were. With the way he had us recruiting there was no reason to believe we were going anywhere.

With the way Collins has recruited in his first year it seems we are heading in the right direction. This is the way we SHOULD recruit but one hads to believe in the program to get these results. Thank God we have someone who does believe in what this program can be. I wish more of our fans would get on board because this negative mindset does have an impact on our program.

 

[HouseDivided]

5 straight top 25 seasons with a top 10 finish is what the last 5 years of the O’Leary years were. With the way he had us recruiting there was no reason to believe we were going anywhere.

With the way Collins has recruited in his first year it seems we are heading in the right direction. This is the way we SHOULD recruit but one hads to believe in the program to get these results. Thank God we have someone who does believe in what this program can be. I wish more of our fans would get on board because this negative mindset does have an impact on our program.

Our fans mirror our administration in that it's almost total apathy regarding the football program, granted for different reasons. It's very disappointing because we are not a 2nd rate school athletically speaking.

 

[Vespidae]

5 straight top 25 seasons with a top 10 finish is what the last 5 years of the O’Leary years were. With the way he had us recruiting there was no reason to believe we were going anywhere.

With the way Collins has recruited in his first year it seems we are heading in the right direction. This is the way we SHOULD recruit but one hads to believe in the program to get these results. Thank God we have someone who does believe in what this program can be. I wish more of our fans would get on board because this negative mindset does have an impact on our program.

I believe Tech can be a Top 25 program, no question. I don’t believe we are ever going to be a Top Ten program in today’s environment. Our fan base is too small, our resources to few, and our curriculum too narrow.

Top 25 is 8-4 btw. Which is what I’ve maintained from the git go.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Ok. So, I looked our record from 1990 to 2007 before we ran the option. We averaged 7 wins a season. So can we assume we just weren’t recruiting good players during the O Leary and Gailey years but now ... we are? When it is harder?

Um, you need to go back and watch Tech under Friedgen, his base play was the TO. Just watch 2000 UGA, Godsey touchdown. It was a TO. 1999 against Clemson he ran the CPJ offense.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Since we joined the ACC we have been a borderline top 25 program. I believe we should expect to return to that as these last 5 years have been a disaster.

We have a lot of resources here. I think Collins is doing a solid job selling this program a can return us to a consistent threat to win the division. I don’t see any reason why we can’t consistently recruit in the top 20 once we start to field competitive teams.

I don't consider 2014, 2016 a disaster. Even 2018 wasn't bad....as compared to this year.

 

[Southpawmac]

Ok. So, I looked our record from 1990 to 2007 before we ran the option. We averaged 7 wins a season. So can we assume we just weren’t recruiting good players during the O Leary and Gailey years but now ... we are? When it is harder?

When did I say anything about our record? You said we ranked 77th in NFL talent and then said why would they start picking Tech?

Because we don’t run the option anymore. Calvin picked Tech. Dwyer picked Tech. Burnett picked Tech. Players like Watson, Lawrence, and Fields never once considered Tech because of the option. That’s just a fact. Will we land a recruit like that often? No. At least now we have a chance. It only takes one. Clemson got Tajh Boyd to sign. He set the stage that led to Watson and Lawrence. It only takes one elite QB to change a program.

 

[takethepoints]

Ok, so what is our ceiling? Frankly, I don't know.

We have hashed over the obstacles lying in the way of football recruiting at Tech for years and all here are aware of them. Soooo … the question is can we overcome them? (And, now that we are playing a conventional offense, we had better try hard to.) The academics are there and that won't change. Nobody who could do it wants to, usually for very good reasons. Some other factors - a small alum base, relatively low attendance (and thus ticket revenue), a limited curriculum - aren't likely to change either. So what can?

Some here seem to think that a "cultural change" will make a difference. That can help with curiosity about the program, at least at first, but it is a very slim reed indeed to cling to, especially when (I hate to say this) we are unlikely to improve our record anytime soon. If we start to win, Collins's innovations will look great. If we keep losing, we'll look like (again, I hate to say this) fools or amateurs. (See Liberty's recent post about how others in his area see us for a possible precursor.) So, again, what can change?

Money. Period. This is something Tech fans can alter and that could have a drastic effect on our recruiting infrastructure. If Collins gets the money for the recruiting program he has in mind, we can go places. If he succeeds, I wouldn't be surprised to see us ending up like Iowa, a program that flirts with a top 15 ranking every now and then and is usually in the talk for top 25. But that'll depend on a massive effort in the face of what promises to be another 3 - 4 win year next season. I hope we break out, but we'll have to pony up in the mean time. We'll have to see.