Assistant Coaching changes in the off season ?

[Milwaukee]

Key is the most high profile, sought after coach on our staff. We’re damn lucky he decided to come here, dude is a beast. Keep his name out of your mouth when you’re trying to run down DP please.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Key is the most high profile, sought after coach on our staff. We’re damn lucky he decided to come here, dude is a beast. Keep his name out of your mouth when you’re trying to run down DP please.

You got this weird scenario with Key:
A. He was Bammer’s OL coach and we’re confused on the OL. He could recruit extremely well there though.
B. He was OC at UCF and managed some great seasons there despite some disasters. The kind of seasons we dream about.
I’m thinking we got a situation where the guy in charge is inferior to the Assistant. It’s possible that Key is a great Recruiter, outstanding OC, yet a middling or worse OL coach. Wouldn’t be the first time a guy was in the wrong role AND was better at a more senior position than the junior one.

 

[herb]

You got this weird scenario with Key:
A. He was Bammer’s OL coach and we’re confused on the OL. He could recruit extremely well there though.
B. He was OC at UCF and managed some great seasons there despite some disasters. The kind of seasons we dream about.
I’m thinking we got a situation where the guy in charge is inferior to the Assistant. It’s possible that Key is a great Recruiter, outstanding OC, yet a middling or worse OL coach. Wouldn’t be the first time a guy was in the wrong role AND was better at a more senior position than the junior one.

I could be wrong, but I think he was only the OC for the one year. At least that’s what I remember and what is on his wiki page.

 

[Oakland]

I'm still ticked off about being shut out. I don't think Collins understands Georgia Tech football history. I'm for letting Key run the offense. Let that P-nut guy coach A-backs.

 

[33jacket]

Too early. And even if it wasn’t too early, I doubt we see any big changes. If he does, it will be an indictment on him. We have been hearing since he started that this was the most massive transformation in history. If he goes and makes a coaching change seems to suggest there were other issues.

this is very true. But if you were collins, would you sink your own ship with that OC? It can still be a massive transition, and have a stinker OC not equipped to handle it. So I don't necessarily see him getting canned as a undermining of the transition. The fact is we don't have a good OC. Its just true. And guys like chad morris want too much money...

Collins seems too loyal. that spells disaster.
GT doesn't have the asst dollars we need still.
and as you point out this year was a flush year anyway.

so yeah...no changes for sure...but if it was me ....he would be gone.

 

[Cam]

The bigger question would be who the heck would be incompetently stupid enough to step into an OC situation such as you describe, without negotiating some very expensive buyout terms that probably outweigh any benefits of the new hire, no matter who it is?

Seriously, it'll be expensive no matter how you slice it. I could understand the criticism of Ted Roof back in the day because he was getting paid something like $750k to produce sub-standard defenses, but I don't think people realize that CDP isn't exactly highly compensated for the difficult task he's undertaken. I took a look at some schools that could be considered similar "mid-major" P5 programs like GT ranked in the top 40 of FEI offense right now. Here's what their OCs make:

8. Minnesota's Kirk Ciarrocca - $710k
10. Utah's Andy Ludwig - $810k
13. Iowa State's Tom Manning - $650k
21. Oregon State's Brian Lindgren - $482k
24. Indiana's Kalen DeBoer - $800k
32. Oklahoma State's Sean Gleeson - $550k
40. UNC's Phil Longo - $700k at Ole Miss in 2018, assumed to be similar at UNC.

These schools in our price range went out and paid the big dollars to ensure they had a top notch offense. You can try to just hire a successful G5 guy, but they also don't come cheap. Indiana got their guy from Fresno State, and they gave him $800k in year 1. Memphis' Kenny Dillingham (who I wanted) went to Auburn for $500k, though he's putting up one of the worst offenses ever under Malzahn. We all knew that when CDP was hired that he was a low-risk option and the safe choice for the transition. If anything, we're getting what we pay for. If anyone on this board wants to donate an extra $300k/year to GT Athletics, I'm sure they can get their wish of a new OC. But for now he'll be given a bit of a long leash.

 

[Animal02]

Seriously, it'll be expensive no matter how you slice it. I could understand the criticism of Ted Roof back in the day because he was getting paid something like $750k to produce sub-standard defenses, but I don't think people realize that CDP isn't exactly highly compensated for the difficult task he's undertaken. I took a look at some schools that could be considered similar "mid-major" P5 programs like GT ranked in the top 40 of FEI offense right now. Here's what their OCs make:

8. Minnesota's Kirk Ciarrocca - $710k
10. Utah's Andy Ludwig - $810k
13. Iowa State's Tom Manning - $650k
21. Oregon State's Brian Lindgren - $482k
24. Indiana's Kalen DeBoer - $800k
32. Oklahoma State's Sean Gleeson - $550k
40. UNC's Phil Longo - $700k at Ole Miss in 2018, assumed to be similar at UNC.

These schools in our price range went out and paid the big dollars to ensure they had a top notch offense. You can try to just hire a successful G5 guy, but they also don't come cheap. Indiana got their guy from Fresno State, and they gave him $800k in year 1. Memphis' Kenny Dillingham (who I wanted) went to Auburn for $500k, though he's putting up one of the worst offenses ever under Malzahn. We all knew that when CDP was hired that he was a low-risk option and the safe choice for the transition. If anything, we're getting what we pay for. If anyone on this board wants to donate an extra $300k/year to GT Athletics, I'm sure they can get their wish of a new OC. But for now he'll be given a bit of a long leash.

300k is 12,000 empty seats at $25 a seat.

 

[GoGATech]

You got this weird scenario with Key:
A. He was Bammer’s OL coach and we’re confused on the OL. He could recruit extremely well there though.
B. He was OC at UCF and managed some great seasons there despite some disasters. The kind of seasons we dream about.
I’m thinking we got a situation where the guy in charge is inferior to the Assistant. It’s possible that Key is a great Recruiter, outstanding OC, yet a middling or worse OL coach. Wouldn’t be the first time a guy was in the wrong role AND was better at a more senior position than the junior one.

He was at UCF for a long time. He started there in 05 as a GA. 2006-2008 he was TE coach and recruiting coordinator. 2009-2013 he was OL coach and recruiting coordinator. He was also given the associate/assistant HC title in 2012. In 2014 he took over as OC and also coached OL for two seasons. UCF went 9-4 his first season as OC, and 0-12 his second, with O'Leary resigning after 8 games into the 2015 season. The 5 years he was only OL coach, UCF went 46-20 winning 3 conference titles. He then left and went to Bama as OL coach from 2016-2019, making it to the CFP National Championship all 3 seasons, and winning one. He coached Outland trophy winner Cam Robinson in 2016. Not sure what you're seeing but his resume as an OL coach is very good. Much better than that of his being an OC. We're confused on the OL because this is year 0 of a transition from a totally different blocking style, we have players that weren't recruited for this style, and we have a ton of injuries. There is no weird scenario with Key.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@GoGATech What’s weird to me is we look decent one game and completely clueless the next. As for styles of blocking many on here act like it’s such a foreign concept it takes years to master. C’mon, these guys are scholarship athletes. We have top notch coaches. They’ve been under new leadership since last December. In 11 months we should have the basics mastered.

 

[smokey_wasp]

@GoGATech C’mon, these guys are scholarship athletes.

Ummm....several aren't, at this point. And this is the problem.

 

[SoMsJacket]

Ummm....several aren't, at this point. And this is the problem.

And, a large number of Freshmen and RS Freshmen in the ATL.

 

[bobongo]

Ummm....several aren't, at this point. And this is the problem.

Usually, walk-ons who get significant playing time are offered scholarships. Wonder if that will be the case in our present situation?

 

[Ibeeballin]

Usually, walk-ons who get significant playing time are offered scholarships. Wonder if that will be the case in our present situation?

At this juncture, unless you are playing at borderline All-ACC like Wells did last season, no walk-on should be awarded schollies

 

[smokey_wasp]

Usually, walk-ons who get significant playing time are offered scholarships. Wonder if that will be the case in our present situation?

Nah. Well, Lay probably deserves it. But you give those schollies to walk ons who beat out scholarship guys and earned the playing time. This has been due to necessity. Plus, we need to open scholarships for the signing class, quite a few of them, actually.

 

[stech81]

Usually, walk-ons who get significant playing time are offered scholarships. Wonder if that will be the case in our present situation?

Don't see it we don't have that many available so I would guess the coaches have a good idea which won't be back in order to just sign the new recruits.

 

[takethepoints]

The fact that this thread even exists is mind boggling. To give ANYONE less than 3 years in a new environment is asinine regardless of the outcome. In our case four years is likely the minimum before significant results are produced given the offense we are coming from.

Now, wait a minute. Let's apply this to any environment. You see consistent failure for 3 years straight and you don't do something? I mean, come on.

I agree that Collins will get at least two years and maybe three. But if next season is like this one - and, through no fault of Collins and staff, that is very likely - then these guys had better hope for a sea change in year three or their tenure will be over at Tech, no matter how well they recruit. The reason they were hired was to win. If they can't do it, fire them.

 

[g0lftime]

Usually, walk-ons who get significant playing time are offered scholarships. Wonder if that will be the case in our present situation?

Will we have any to offer.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Honest question for you. You’ve been consistent in saying we need to execute better and that the scheme isn’t the problem. That said, we are witnessing an historically bad offense for Tech. Do you honestly put no blame on the OC? Do you think no matter who the OC was we’d be this bad?

I’m not saying you’re wrong necessarily, I just find it hard to believe that there’s no one that could have us better than 125th is total offense and 123rd in scoring offense. I mean can we crack the top 100 at least?

I know you asked ibee, but my take on it is this. Is there another OC in the country who could have done a better job for us this year? Absolutely, I am sure there are some. Now, my question to you is, who would you have hired and how would you have convinced them to come here under the following circumstances that Patenaude walked into: Position coach level salary, wrong kind of personnel to work with, fanbase with unrealistic expectations because the last guy was considered an offensive genius who put up a billion rushing yards? Let's say your bring in and up and coming guy or a beloved Tech man like Godsey. He gives us a 100th ranked offense in the country and people want to run him out of town. Then what?

IMO, Patenaude is here because he is A. Cheap, B. He has varied experience and seems good for a transitional situation and C. Can take the heat because he isn't necessarily intended to be the long term answer.

Ya'll will say this is conspiratorial, 3D chess type stuff, but a lot of moves Collins makes is for the future. Year 1 and 2 were always going to be about roster management. Once the roster is assembled, he will look at who he really wants calling the plays, and we will have more money (hopefully) for the OC position by then. If Patenaude proves to be the man, fine, he gets a raise and stays. If not, he will take a job up north (Look at his career history and where he geographically wants to be long term) and we will either promote Key or find and up and coming offensive mind.

In the grand scheme of thing at this point in time, what difference does it make if we have a 100th or 125th ranked offense? Is that worth *maybe* one win?

Trust the process! There is no instant gratification here.

 

[GoGATech]

@GoGATech What’s weird to me is we look decent one game and completely clueless the next. As for styles of blocking many on here act like it’s such a foreign concept it takes years to master. C’mon, these guys are scholarship athletes. We have top notch coaches. They’ve been under new leadership since last December. In 11 months we should have the basics mastered.

I think you have extremely underestimated how complex some blocking schemes can be. This isn't high school where it's "you block anybody lined up head up or outside shouler." You have certain footwork, hand placement, leverage, chip and release, zone schemes, man/slant schemes, etc. All very different than 3 or 4 point stance and scoop, drive, or cut. On top of that you have D1 power 5 level DL across from you running shifts and more complex stunts than you will see at most high schools. Defense rarely stunts when defending the 3O so most these guys haven't seen much of that at least not lately.

 

[Gold1]

Does Key move on after looking toward the horizon a little more when the season is over?

What? Hahaha