Arrests coming due to college bball kickbacks

Bruce Wayne

Bruce Wayne

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,870
bwelbo said:
Well if we pick up vacated wins against Miami and Louisville, that makes us:
2016-2017: 23-14
2015-2016: 24-12

Yay! LOL
Click to expand...
I would love it, but stupidly the NCAA calls those games non-existent, They should be considered forfeitures and the win goes to the opponent, but alas, nope.
 
Bruce Wayne

Bruce Wayne

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,870
@RonJohn : I think you are having trouble understanding what a bribe is, as that is at the root of all this. You are getting hung up trying to parse out whom is a victim of fraud. If you examine the nature of acts of bribery it may be simpler to get to a recognition of the criminal case being made.

Also, depending on your line of work, you will have gone through compliance training as regards these kinds of activities.
 
RonJohn

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,995
Bruce Wayne said:
@RonJohn : I think you are having trouble understanding what a bribe is, as that is at the root of all this. You are getting hung up trying to parse out whom is a victim of fraud. If you examine the nature of acts of bribery it may be simpler to get to a recognition of the criminal case being made.
Click to expand...

The definition of bribe is to persuade someone to act in your favor by way of inducement. If you pay your kids to do their chores, you are bribing them. It isn't illegal to bribe your kids to do housework. The main illegal act shown in the complaint is fraud against the schools. The complaint, at least as far as I read it, didn't content that the bribe itself was illegal. The conspiracy and laundering charges are based on the main illegal act of fraud. If no fraud in fact occurred, then there couldn't be conspiracy or laundering.
 
orientalnc

orientalnc

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
9,907
Location
Oriental, NC
RonJohn said:
The definition of bribe is to persuade someone to act in your favor by way of inducement. If you pay your kids to do their chores, you are bribing them. It isn't illegal to bribe your kids to do housework. The main illegal act shown in the complaint is fraud against the schools. The complaint, at least as far as I read it, didn't content that the bribe itself was illegal. The conspiracy and laundering charges are based on the main illegal act of fraud. If no fraud in fact occurred, then there couldn't be conspiracy or laundering.
Click to expand...
While it may not in fact be illegal (it is in North Carolina), paying a recruit to attend a particular college becomes illegal if it's part of a scheme to get a payback that harms the college. So, the agent pays a recruit to attend State U with money provided by a shoe company who wants State U be be on national TV wearing their shoes. The recruit accepts the money understanding he will hire said agent if he becomes an NBA player.

I would like a show of hands. How many of you are surprised that this is happening? I am only surprised that it is being exposed in my lifetime.
 
Techster

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,235
orientalnc said:
While it may not in fact be illegal (it is in North Carolina), paying a recruit to attend a particular college becomes illegal if it's part of a scheme to get a payback that harms the college. So, the agent pays a recruit to attend State U with money provided by a shoe company who wants State U be be on national TV wearing their shoes. The recruit accepts the money understanding he will hire said agent if he becomes an NBA player. I would like a show of hands> How many of you are surprised that this is happening? I am only surprised that it is being exposed in my lifetime.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the money laundering and tax evasion that's involved in it...
 

TheTechGuy

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
922
RonJohn said:
The definition of bribe is to persuade someone to act in your favor by way of inducement. If you pay your kids to do their chores, you are bribing them. It isn't illegal to bribe your kids to do housework. The main illegal act shown in the complaint is fraud against the schools. The complaint, at least as far as I read it, didn't content that the bribe itself was illegal. The conspiracy and laundering charges are based on the main illegal act of fraud. If no fraud in fact occurred, then there couldn't be conspiracy or laundering.
Click to expand...
@Bruce Wayne I don't think the "bribe" is the main issue.
Last I'll say on it (Probably): Feds will most likely argue fraud occurred when the coaches intentionally signed players they knew to be ineligible, thereby fraudulently inducing the university to allocate scholarship funds to ineligible players, which the coaches knew would cause harm to the university.

I haven't read enough of the complaint to see how they'll argue the laundering charges.

Fun fact: The crime doesn't have to have actually occurred to be charged with conspiracy to commit a crime. All that is needed is an overt act which would, objectively, lead to the commission of the crime. Well, overt act is correct, the objective standard is a little hazy in my memory lol.
 
Bruce Wayne

Bruce Wayne

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,870
You have given a stilted definition of bribe, one that excludes the ethical appraisal contained in the term, and then misapply it. That does not advance your understanding of the situation, or a conversation. There is a reason a normal user of our language chooses a term like "allowance" for the payment they make to their children to do the chores assigned to them.

Is your imprecise use of language intentional, or accidental? If you actually are seeking to understand the criminality being investigated by the FBI then I will continue to attempt to assist. (Well, have to get to work now actually, but later on).
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
I really hope they find ways to extend their tentacles into the world of football. Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to do.

This is why as much as it pains me to the most overlooked, disrespected, underrated team in all of college football, I would much rather be the clean team that is an underdog, than to get caught up in this mess. Give me (God forbid) 6-7 win teams forever before any of this garbage. At Georgia Tech our academics and our integrity are our brand. If we ever lose that, we've lost pretty much everything.
 
ATL1

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
A Nike rep has already been indicted.
"A couple of other notes.
one of the people arrested is the Merl Code, the head of Nike's EYBL program.
Also, part of the indictment includes conversations with a coach from a FL school (believed to be Miami) telling the Adidas guy that a prospect needs $150K to outbid another apparel manufacturer (likely Nike) and not attend another school."
From cuse post.
 
Bruce Wayne

Bruce Wayne

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,870
TheTechGuy said:
@Bruce Wayne I don't think the "bribe" is the main issue.
Last I'll say on it (Probably): Feds will most likely argue fraud occurred when the coaches intentionally signed players they knew to be ineligible, thereby fraudulently inducing the university to allocate scholarship funds to ineligible players, which the coaches knew would cause harm to the university.

I haven't read enough of the complaint to see how they'll argue the laundering charges.

Fun fact: The crime doesn't have to have actually occurred to be charged with conspiracy to commit a crime. All that is needed is an overt act which would, objectively, lead to the commission of the crime. Well, overt act is correct, the objective standard is a little hazy in my memory lol.
Click to expand...
I know that. I was trying to help @RonJohn work up to to the actual FBI charges. His trouble seems to be ethical recognition of what is going on and is a problem logically prior to recognition of the crimes alleged. The fraud is the primary crime being alleged and investigated. But at the root of the situation, ethically, is a system of bribery to induce recruit commitments.
 

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,862
Here is a link to the indictments

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/press-conference-advisory-2

So far I have only gone through U.S. vs James Gatto as that is the one that involves the schools (L'ville and Miami) and Adidas.

I think both of those schools are going to be firing asst coaches very soon.
If you start reading on page 14 - Section IV is the start of the investigation on the scheme that involved L'ville.
Player 10 is 5* Brian Bowen.
There is also a second player (Player 11) - class of 2019 discussed as being paid to go there.
It is also stated that at least 1 coach knows about the transactions.

Section V is the investigation of Miami.
They have Player 12 - class of 2018 that is arranged to receive $150K - because an unnamed Miami Asst says they have to up the offer from $100K to $150K to prevent the recruit from going to 'another school with their company'.

There are really 2 different schemes going on here.
One is the one above with schools getting recruits through a show company and the player also potentially signing with a specific agent.
The second scheme - which is where the 4 assts were arrested is the asst coaches steering the kids to sign with specific agents after being bribed by the agents to do so.

This is got to be a long term god send to the NCAA as this is all recorded info, stuff they normally wouldn't be able to get. L'ville is already on probation - this cannot help.
Miami has recruited really well the last few years, maybe we know why.
 

TheTechGuy

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
922
Bruce Wayne said:
I know that. I was trying to help @RonJohn work up to to the actual FBI charges. His trouble seems to be ethical recognition of what is going on and is a problem logically prior to recognition of the crimes alleged. The fraud is the primary crime being alleged and investigated. But at the root of the situation, ethically, is a system of bribery to induce recruit commitments.
Click to expand...
Agreed, and I see your point now. The payments and intent for which they were made are certainly elements of the case.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
RIGHT AFTER GETTING ON PROBATION from the other trash, [the Louisville coach] "The coach told Adidas shoe rep they needed to be “super low key” because the program was already on probation." WTF is wrong with Louisville across all sports? What a trash bin that place is. I mean this timeline is literally just a couple weeks after getting the hammer dropped on them from another issue with the NCAA.
http://kentuckysportsradio.com/bask...-new-ncaa-corruption-scandal-of-course-it-is/

All this stuff is from wire taps. Wiretaps are just deadly. Man they have got so much in so many different directions I bet.
 
Top